Led light help

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louie217

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I need some help. I have a 01 sport, I put led lights in for the low beam. (Didn't know how it would work on a reflector light.) So I'm ordering highs, and new housings, probably new fogs too. But for the moment I have a problem, and can't seem to find an answer. When I turn the fogs on the highs come on. And before anyone starts the dumb answer road....... led are plug and play with no ballast box, lights worked fine before, no I don't want my fog lights with my brights......unless it's an absolute last resort. 766361bcb33144a7916059aa725a19bf.jpg4fc1062f76ee7f76c585443887eb6bb8.jpg5e071f5af3f45854d5d1db432be33139.jpg788dc0e939bad700b7c11c84c2ec22f5.jpg

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dudeman2009

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This problem is caused because the front lighting system is a positive ground. Meaning the ground of the bulbs is always at battery positive and all of the switches provide a ground path. In the conventional diagram, component grounds are hooked to battery positive.

A halogen bulb in the low beam slot will have its ground connected to the positive line, its high/low beam pins are connected to normally floating circuits, meaning they are not connected to anything when off. When you turn on the low beams, the headlight switch connects that part of the circuit to ground while the high beam circuit remains floating, this will cause current flow through the DC-DC converter (it doesn't care about polarity as it uses a FBR internally). When you hit the high beams the same thing happens on that part of the circuit. So far were good, the DC-DC converter gets it current flow and powers the lights. The problem arises with how the quad beams and fog lamp relay works. On most domestic vehicles, the fog lamps turn off when the high beams come on. Since the high beam circuit is normally floating, its at battery potential, when you turn it on, everything after the bulb drops to ground potential. This means that when the low beams are on, the fog lamp relay can draw 12v power from the high beam rail and the switch just provides the ground. This works because the relay only needs about 75mA to turn on, the high beam filament has a resistance of a little under a quarter ohm whereas the relay coil has a resistance of about 160ohm, so as far as the relay is concerned, the bulb isn't there, only the battery. The fog lamp relay sources power through the bulb, since you put in LEDs which are an active component, the high beam rail is no longer sourced power from the high beam filament as the diodes in the DC-DC converter prevent current flow through (its not that simple, but thats how it works) So, the power must be sourced from elsewhere. Also on the high beam rail is the high beam indicator and quad beam relay, both of those must activate with the high beams, since the rail is pulled to ground when active, those two components must receive power from the battery. Since the high beam indicator is a halogen bulb it can provide some current(its resistance is much higher than the halogen high beam) and the quad beam relay also has a resistance of about 160ohm. So when you turn on the fog lamps, it must draw power through the high beam indicator as well as the quad beam relay, this is enough current to dimly light the high beam indicator as well as activate the quad beam relay.

The only solution is to go back to halogen (since LEDs in the stock housings blinds anyone in front of you because the spread is higher than the truck) or put a load resistor across the high beam rail thats rated at about 25watts.
 

dapepper9

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For one, you need bulbs with a driver box. Secondly, switches regularly go bad as there's no relay to keep em from burning up. Lastly, make sure you have the right bulb (9007 low and not a 9004)

I'm not even going to bother harassing you about leds, gets tiring. That deer you wouldn't normally hit but now will is a much clearer message/lesson
 

dudeman2009

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For one, you need bulbs with a driver box. Secondly, switches regularly go bad as there's no relay to keep em from burning up. Lastly, make sure you have the right bulb (9007 low and not a 9004)

I'm not even going to bother harassing you about leds, gets tiring. That deer you wouldn't normally hit but now will is a much clearer message/lesson

I've seen some new LED headlights with integrated drivers, but they won't last long with all the heat going straight to the driver, even with cooling fans. My buddies dad bought a set of headlights for his 13 Silverado for $15 delivered, those dont have drivers.
 
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louie217

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For one, you need bulbs with a driver box. Secondly, switches regularly go bad as there's no relay to keep em from burning up. Lastly, make sure you have the right bulb (9007 low and not a 9004)

I'm not even going to bother harassing you about leds, gets tiring. That deer you wouldn't normally hit but now will is a much clearer message/lesson
Right bulb is in. The 2 deer I hit with halogen disagree. (Couldn't see) my headlights are properly installed and aimed. Thanks though.

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louie217

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This problem is caused because the front lighting system is a positive ground. Meaning the ground of the bulbs is always at battery positive and all of the switches provide a ground path. In the conventional diagram, component grounds are hooked to battery positive.

A halogen bulb in the low beam slot will have its ground connected to the positive line, its high/low beam pins are connected to normally floating circuits, meaning they are not connected to anything when off. When you turn on the low beams, the headlight switch connects that part of the circuit to ground while the high beam circuit remains floating, this will cause current flow through the DC-DC converter (it doesn't care about polarity as it uses a FBR internally). When you hit the high beams the same thing happens on that part of the circuit. So far were good, the DC-DC converter gets it current flow and powers the lights. The problem arises with how the quad beams and fog lamp relay works. On most domestic vehicles, the fog lamps turn off when the high beams come on. Since the high beam circuit is normally floating, its at battery potential, when you turn it on, everything after the bulb drops to ground potential. This means that when the low beams are on, the fog lamp relay can draw 12v power from the high beam rail and the switch just provides the ground. This works because the relay only needs about 75mA to turn on, the high beam filament has a resistance of a little under a quarter ohm whereas the relay coil has a resistance of about 160ohm, so as far as the relay is concerned, the bulb isn't there, only the battery. The fog lamp relay sources power through the bulb, since you put in LEDs which are an active component, the high beam rail is no longer sourced power from the high beam filament as the diodes in the DC-DC converter prevent current flow through (its not that simple, but thats how it works) So, the power must be sourced from elsewhere. Also on the high beam rail is the high beam indicator and quad beam relay, both of those must activate with the high beams, since the rail is pulled to ground when active, those two components must receive power from the battery. Since the high beam indicator is a halogen bulb it can provide some current(its resistance is much higher than the halogen high beam) and the quad beam relay also has a resistance of about 160ohm. So when you turn on the fog lamps, it must draw power through the high beam indicator as well as the quad beam relay, this is enough current to dimly light the high beam indicator as well as activate the quad beam relay.

The only solution is to go back to halogen (since LEDs in the stock housings blinds anyone in front of you because the spread is higher than the truck) or put a load resistor across the high beam rail thats rated at about 25watts.
Buying a load resistor. I'm not blinding anyone

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dapepper9

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Buying a load resistor. I'm not blinding anyone

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Blinding is due to optics. LED are blinding and glare/scatter in a reflector housing, especially cheap bulbs. Some vehicles you can get away with it, these trucks are not one of em.
Right bulb is in. The 2 deer I hit with halogen disagree. (Couldn't see) my headlights are properly installed and aimed. Thanks though.

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Not all halogen bulbs are the same believe it or not. Sylvania are trash. Clean headlights properly aimed with good halogens will rival a quality but budget retrofit.

Again, good luck with deer. Start saving for front end parts. LEDs don't focus and don't reach in these. Especially crappy cheap ones
 
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louie217

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Blinding is due to optics. LED are blinding and glare/scatter in a reflector housing, especially cheap bulbs. Some vehicles you can get away with it, these trucks are not one of em.

Not all halogen bulbs are the same believe it or not. Sylvania are trash. Clean headlights properly aimed with good halogens will rival a quality but budget retrofit.

Again, good luck with deer. Start saving for front end parts. LEDs don't focus and don't reach in these. Especially crappy cheap ones
Well I care to disagree. You can believe what you want. Fact of the matter is I've already hit two deer, while running halogen, in clean housings properly aimed. So I believe you're wrong. I can see way better with the led over the halogen. The bulb don't focus anything so I'm curious what your talking about. I've yet to "blind" anyone. So again not sure what you're getting at. But anyway I didn't join this forum tonarhue with people, which seems to.be what is going on. I'll probably just leave after work.

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dapepper9

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Well I care to disagree. You can believe what you want. Fact of the matter is I've already hit two deer, while running halogen, in clean housings properly aimed. So I believe you're wrong. I can see way better with the led over the halogen. The bulb don't focus anything so I'm curious what your talking about. I've yet to "blind" anyone. So again not sure what you're getting at. But anyway I didn't join this forum tonarhue with people, which seems to.be what is going on. I'll probably just leave after work.

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You're misunderstanding. You said you've hit deer with halogen. From the pics of your lights you were running terrible bulbs. No surprise you hit deer with terrible bulbs. LEDs won't be any different.

No i wasn't saying the bulbs are what focus the light. I was talking about how LEDs can't be focused by our reflector lights. The intensity is too great and being that it's also not a full 360 degree output that intense light is bent and refracted in crazy obscure ways. LEDs can't replicate the filament of halogen bulbs. In our lights, they produce poor patterns with a ton of excess glare and scatter. A good quality halogen bulb will make better use of its output by being able to be focused. They're also a better color temperature for cutting through bad weather.

Im NOT trying to argue with you. I assume you joined fort help right? Well getting all the facts is the perfect place to start getting help. Not one bit of what i posted has been opinion based. LEDs by all means have their place. I run them in my 4th gen fogs even. But the difference there is a much higher quality bulb and a reflector that produces a MUCH better pattern. These trucks headlights simply aren't up to par for such things
 

dapepper9

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Things like this aren't about opinion. It doesnt matter what you believe, just what "is" and "isn't". I don't mean any disrespect but I'm not going to help if given any either
 
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louie217

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You're misunderstanding. You said you've hit deer with halogen. From the pics of your lights you were running terrible bulbs. No surprise you hit deer with terrible bulbs. LEDs won't be any different.

No i wasn't saying the bulbs are what focus the light. I was talking about how LEDs can't be focused by our reflector lights. The intensity is too great and being that it's also not a full 360 degree output that intense light is bent and refracted in crazy obscure ways. LEDs can't replicate the filament of halogen bulbs. In our lights, they produce poor patterns with a ton of excess glare and scatter. A good quality halogen bulb will make better use of its output by being able to be focused. They're also a better color temperature for cutting through bad weather.

Im NOT trying to argue with you. I assume you joined fort help right? Well getting all the facts is the perfect place to start getting help. Not one bit of what i posted has been opinion based. LEDs by all means have their place. I run them in my 4th gen fogs even. But the difference there is a much higher quality bulb and a reflector that produces a MUCH better pattern. These trucks headlights simply aren't up to par for such things
That's opinion. They have great pattern. Guess 80$ bulbs are junk. I'm not going to even bother to reply to you any more

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dapepper9

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Halogens don't even put out a good pattern but the light isn't blindingly intense to other drivers. Our headlights put out a big round spot essentially. What you spent on the bulbs is virtually irrelevant, you said they don't even have a control driver.

I understand being headstrong, im pretty headstrong myself. I'm not attacking you but if you feel im wrong, show me. Post pics of the pattern these bulbs put out. The problem with your argument is you're just telling me I'm wrong. Not to toot my own horn but I've had everything and im pretty experienced with lights. That being said, im pretty open to learning of new products.

Seriously, let's have some substance to the discussion. I can post a ton of output pics of various setups ive had and show you what i mean
 
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louie217

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I'm not home to take pics. I'm a trucker soooooo. The 80$ lights are the halogens. The led has built in drivers I guess. The lights don't blind anyone because they only have a 270 degree pattern on low. Which I correctly clocked when I installed. I'll take pics when I get home

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