Lemon law numbers

[chri5k]

CarComplaints.com lists our Ram trucks as halfway reliable. Our trucks got TotYear awards. How many other owners find your recent purchase full of problems?

Most U.S. states have lemon laws. How many of you have had your investment in the shop for the same issue multiple times with no results?

How can the truck of the year have five recalls and 168 complaints IN ONE YEAR at https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2021/RAM/1500%2520CLASSIC/PU%252FCC/4WD ?

Did the sell of FCA to Stellantis ruin the truck? I guess PU stands for more than pick up.

In 2021, FCA sold ~569,000 RAM trucks. Works out to 0.02% complaint rate which seems pretty low. When the sample size is 1, a single persons truck with issues, then the rate seems much higher to that one person.

The other perception problem is most folks don't post how happy they are with their truck. We see it where folks come her to complain about their truck and that is the sum total of their posts. Again, if just judging by these types of folks the rate may seem high. However, this forum has 126,000 users and most don't complain about their truck. They come here to gain or provide knowledge and share camaraderie with their fellow RAM owners. Basically they are happy with their trucks. When viewed from this lens it seems most owners are happy with their trucks.

 

[Bmags]

I think it’s real hit or miss

 

[Sherman Bird]

Go on any vehicle forum for any make/model and you will find a fair amount of people who have had lemons. A good chunk of most forums are people that come here to ask about a problem or complain about them and in appearance it can seem like that vehicle is terrible, but not many people come here to say how problem free there vehicle is, why would they? So how many are bad vs good? Best of luck figuring that one.

Also not sure how much awards like truck of the year or others take things like this into account. There's a ton of variables here but I've never paid much attention to any of these things. I've had 4 rams and they've been decently reliable, but I don't buy them with stars in my eyes thinking they are going to last that long without having some kind of issue.

Without getting specific, I have a friend in a high place who intimated that awards are bought (kind of the "Good old boys" thing). I do not know the details nor do I know the accuracy of his statement, but the evidence is there, no doubt.
That being said, I never have used the opinions of others to be the end-all in a decision to buy anything from a vehicle to a battery powered drill. Ultimately, I do consider inputs, but make my own decision.

I bought a brand new 2008 F-150 Super Crew Lariat in July, 2008. I had no idea at that time that the 5.4 liter 3 valve engine has/had a sorry track record for the cam phasers/VVT timing components. Fortunately, it WAS one manufactured just after the "Broken spark plug" batch from 2004 thru 2008. The engine model hadn't aged out enough for this issue to be one.

It never did have the much maligned and feared cam phaser issue. Hmm... I wonder if my diligence from day one, including me declining the "FREE" oil change package; opting to do my own from the very beginning had anything to do with it lasting a very long time. My late Grandmother drilled into us grandkids' heads; "There ain't any such thing as "free".

I'll never quite understand how a relatively inexpensive maintenance item such as oil changes offered for free by dealers, when weighed in against the big picture financially, make sense as an incentive to buy a super expensive item. Does one REALLY think the dealer isn't going to use the cheapest bulk oil from who knows where to fulfill "FREE"? What makes one think they ARE really free. It's buried in the overhead algorithm in their cost base before the vehicle is ever sold. That means you paid for it and were deceived about it.

It's akin to someone peeing on your leg and saying it's raining. IMHO

 

[HEMIMANN]

Without getting specific, I have a friend in a high place who intimated that awards are bought (kind of the "Good old boys" thing). I do not know the details nor do I know the accuracy of his statement, but the evidence is there, no doubt.
That being said, I never have used the opinions of others to be the end-all in a decision to buy anything from a vehicle to a battery powered drill. Ultimately, I do consider inputs, but make my own decision.

I bought a brand new 2008 F-150 Super Crew Lariat in July, 2008. I had no idea at that time that the 5.4 liter 3 valve engine has/had a sorry track record for the cam phasers/VVT timing components. Fortunately, it WAS one manufactured just after the "Broken spark plug" batch from 2004 thru 2008. The engine model hadn't aged out enough for this issue to be one.

It never did have the much maligned and feared cam phaser issue. Hmm... I wonder if my diligence from day one, including me declining the "FREE" oil change package; opting to do my own from the very beginning had anything to do with it lasting a very long time. My late Grandmother drilled into us grandkids' heads; "There ain't any such thing as "free".

I'll never quite understand how a relatively inexpensive maintenance item such as oil changes offered for free by dealers, when weighed in against the big picture financially, make sense as an incentive to buy a super expensive item. Does one REALLY think the dealer isn't going to use the cheapest bulk oil from who knows where to fulfill "FREE"? What makes one think they ARE really free. It's buried in the overhead algorithm in their cost base before the vehicle is ever sold. That means you paid for it and were deceived about it.

It's akin to someone peeing on your leg and saying it's raining. IMHO

Ah - story time.

Back when I was working too many hours 20 some years ago, with kids, I looked for ways to offload routine chores like oil changes. Thought the dealer couldn't screw it up like quickie lubes.

I took my Chev truck to the dealer on way to work, a mile from work. Picked it up after work, always checked the oil level. They didn't change it. Called manager out, showed color to him on dipstick. He snarked at me "what do you want me to do?". I snarked back "nothing but enjoy losing a customer, and anyone else I know at work", then left.

End of story. And lesson learned.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I remember seeing an Acura commercial during golf tournaments back in the eighties. The depiction was that of 3 guys teeing off on the golf course.
The first guy, a disheveled looking , beer belly sort gets up to tee off first. As he is practice swinging, he quips "I just got my Beemer out of the shop for it's maintenance service! Cost me a grand!". At that he swung and the ball sliced off and landed in a sand trap.
Second guy gets up to tee off, and says "Thant's nothing! I just got my Jag out of the shop and it cost me 1500!". He swings and his ball lands in the water.
Third guy, looking like a Ken doll... blonde, perfect teeth, etc., gets up to tee and says as he warm up swings: "Hmm! I don't ever remember having to have anything done to my Acura!". He hits a hole in one.
The FTC forced Honda U.S. to remove the ad because it implied that their cars never needed any maintenance. (deceptive)

 

[Sherman Bird]

Go on any vehicle forum for any make/model and you will find a fair amount of people who have had lemons. A good chunk of most forums are people that come here to ask about a problem or complain about them and in appearance it can seem like that vehicle is terrible, but not many people come here to say how problem free there vehicle is, why would they? So how many are bad vs good? Best of luck figuring that one.

Also not sure how much awards like truck of the year or others take things like this into account. There's a ton of variables here but I've never paid much attention to any of these things. I've had 4 rams and they've been decently reliable, but I don't buy them with stars in my eyes thinking they are going to last that long without having some kind of issue.

Awards are possibly obtained by subtle surreptitious tactics...... Manufacturers will pay to have a media person flown to a resort style promotional event where the manufacturer wines, dines, and propagandizes with things such as trial drives on a closed course, then lavish said media person with brand specific trinkets like coozies, windbreakers, and baseball caps emblazoned with corporate logo/ brand. Then, the media person is asked to write a review..... Now the media person is sort of obligated to paint a glowing picture. Just sayin'!

 

[1 MEAN66]

Just talk to any German car owner, after all they bought the "best engineered." vehicles made on the planet (and they tell themselves that every day-until they convince themselves that they have). Ask them how long it takes to get a service appointment! Go to a shop yourself, watch the trany's being worked on, engine overhaul, etc. Go online check out some of their recalls. In just 1 of their recalls they called in 1 million vehicles!!!! All mechanical things will have mechanical issues. But the odds are in the consumers favor.
##### for info only #### Investment can be positive, you make money (make more money than inflation can cancel out). Static investment (break-even), Or a negative you lose money.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Go on any vehicle forum for any make/model and you will find a fair amount of people who have had lemons. A good chunk of most forums are people that come here to ask about a problem or complain about them and in appearance it can seem like that vehicle is terrible, but not many people come here to say how problem free there vehicle is, why would they? So how many are bad vs good? Best of luck figuring that one.

Also not sure how much awards like truck of the year or others take things like this into account. There's a ton of variables here but I've never paid much attention to any of these things. I've had 4 rams and they've been decently reliable, but I don't buy them with stars in my eyes thinking they are going to last that long without having some kind of issue.

yup! And when I turn on, say, ABC World News Tonight..... they NEVER tell us how many problem free miles the airlines flew that day with no incursions, crashes, deaths, etc. But let there be ONE crash and they're all over it with questions about "airline safety"!