Longevity of new Power Wagons

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Buttyman

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I've been a bit concerned with some of the posts where electronic/computer glitches are ruining the owner experience for some. I realize that ALL new vehicles are dependent on these components and that when they work, they are really nice. However, it seems to me that in 10 or 15 years, vehicles needing computer components may not be fixable because of outdated technology. Am I all wet here? Will these vehicles be able to make it for decades? Just for the record, I've installed the Procal on my truck and also done the Able conversions for lockers and sway bar, so this concerns me because I've modified something I know nothing about how to fix or troubleshoot. I'd appreciate your comments.
 

Grand Mesa

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Blame Volkswagen for introducing the first computer ever in vehicles. You may own the vehicle, but the manufacturer owns the software that runs it. Currently it isn't a criminal offense to modify the encrypted software on the vehicle you own, but aren't you really messing with their property?

VW 1968 advertising...

1968-vw-volkswagen-fastback-squareback-car-and-computer_1.jpg
 

Bahn112

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I figure for our trucks that there will be an abundant supply of parts for a long time; either via OEM or aftermarket for anything that would likely break.
Not something I worry about. If it gets to the point the repairs are more than the truck is worth it's time to move on to something new.
 

Meister

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All the electronics is what kills the truck. Much rather have mechanical connections etc. Quoted 5k for a 125k 8yr warranty....I am not a warranty guy but these new vehicles 1 wire can do alot of damage. The motor I think is solid....who has the most miles on a 6.4l?
 

Scotts26

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Our PW’s are about as simple of vehicles as you can get these days. These trucks have fewer complex electrical components compared to most other late model vehicles. Especially compared to the German and luxury Japanese automakers.
 

Travelin Ram

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As someone who enjoys building project vehicles from older stuff, I can tell you that anything past the ten year mark the parts supply starts to dry up. First the OEM stock is depleted and you’re pushed into using second tier suppliers like Dorman, or scrounging on eBay and recycling yards.
Naturally high volume vehicles have aftermarket support for longer periods. The PW is not in that class, although fortunately many components are shared with the general population of Ram HD.
And other than the much appreciated manual transfer case lever, the modern PW is infested with potentially crippling electronics. EVERYTHING is drive by wire: lockers, sway bar, ABS, traction control, the transmission and the engine. The manual transfer case lever YOU control, but the CAD is controlled by the computer. So you cannot have 4x4 without the approval from SkyNet.
If the computer network in this truck goes down, you’ll need a wrecker.
 
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Buttyman

Buttyman

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As someone who enjoys building project vehicles from older stuff, I can tell you that anything past the ten year mark the parts supply starts to dry up. First the OEM stock is depleted and you’re pushed into using second tier suppliers like Dorman, or scrounging on eBay and recycling yards.
Naturally high volume vehicles have aftermarket support for longer periods. The PW is not in that class, although fortunately many components are shared with the general population of Ram HD.
And other than the much appreciated manual transfer case lever, the modern PW is infested with potentially crippling electronics. EVERYTHING is drive by wire: lockers, sway bar, ABS, traction control, the transmission and the engine. The manual transfer case lever YOU control, but the CAD is controlled by the computer. So you cannot have 4x4 without the approval from SkyNet.
If the computer network in this truck goes down, you’ll need a wrecker.

Thanks for the comment. That is what I am worried about. I built several vehicles over the years and love wrenching on my own stuff. The computer stuff is beyond my capability. Maybe I should replace my modern PW with an older one. However, you can't match the safety of the new vehicles. Catch 22 I guess.
 

unxpctd

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I've always tried to get an extended warranty simply because of the electronics....too expensive if things go wrong.

I'm also seeing new laws put in place that will make all vehicles electric within a decade or two. The charging station infrastructure is expanding along
with the technology and longer range of electric vehicles. Hell...they're making all electric semi's in the near future.

All electric is coming...whether we like it or not. I'm going to buy or order a 2021 PW 75th because this might be the last gas powered vehicle I buy.

Just my personal observations.
 
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Buttyman

Buttyman

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I've always tried to get an extended warranty simply because of the electronics....too expensive if things go wrong.

I'm also seeing new laws put in place that will make all vehicles electric within a decade or two. The charging station infrastructure is expanding along
with the technology and longer range of electric vehicles. Hell...they're making all electric semi's in the near future.

All electric is coming...whether we like it or not. I'm going to buy or order a 2021 PW 75th because this might be the last gas powered vehicle I buy.

Just my personal observations.

Sad, but true. I guess I'm a relic.
 

Travelin Ram

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I know everyone’s wants and needs differ, but I don’t plan to ever have my daily driver out of warranty again. Which I suppose is a victory for carmakers, just like the tech companies they’ve got us on an endless upgrade treadmill.

But I sort of don’t mind. I have older vehicles I still enjoy and maintain. However for everyday reliability and comfort I’ll choose new, or slightly used.
 

Overlander

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Reading about problems in a forum is akin to researching your medical problem on WebMD; both lead to the conclusion that it is fatal and hopeless.

Go to a Toyota forum (the pinnacle of quality, right?) and you'll see a large percentage of the posts about problems too. It's just human nature. People don't post when their truck started perfectly. They post when something didn't work. And then you have to filter out whether it was their fault or a true design/manufacturing flaw and if it is major or minor. Then confirmation bias will take over and you'll read of another occurrence and perceive that the problem is prevalent. All this based upon maybe three posts out of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of vehicles.

The fact is that most vehicles today are very well made. It's also a fact that mechanical things break. And the third leg to this stool is that dealer mechanics are often not experienced enough to solve the root issue so problems end up getting a life of their own on the forums.
 
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Gamedog

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Reading about problems in a forum is akin to researching your medical problem on WebMD; both lead to the conclusion that it is fatal and hopeless.

Go to a Toyota forum (the pinnacle of quality, right?) and you'll see a large percentage of the posts about problems too. It's just human nature. People don't post when their truck started perfectly. They post when something didn't work. And then you have to filter out whether it was their fault or a true design/manufacturing flaw and if it is major or minor. Then confirmation bias will take over and you'll read of another occurrence and perceive that the problem is prevalent. All this based upon maybe three posts out of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of vehicles.

The fact is that most vehicles today are very well made. It's also a fact that mechanical things break. And the third leg to this stool is that dealer mechanics are often not experienced enough to solve the root issue so problems end up getting a life of their own on the forums.

Homeboy hit the nail on the head right here.
 

Scotts26

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And the third leg to this stool is that dealer mechanics are often not experienced enough to solve the root issue so problems end up getting a life of their own on the forums.

Great post Overlander.
To add on the part quoted above I agree that experience/training is part of the problem.But in my opinion a bigger part is that lots of dealers only want to pay their technicians on a flat rate commission basis. It’s hard to to get manufacturers to pay hours and hours of warranty time to chase and verify and diagnose a quirky intermittent problem.
So Dealer technicians have no incentive to go all deep dive root cause analysis on a problem if they may not get paid for the time they have in it. Even if they were able and willing.
 

danoday

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I can appreciate the integration of technology to improve diagnostics and prognostication that prevent catastrophic mechanical failure, such as, limp modes, fail safe, fail open/close and so on. I think the issues are the lack of industry standards regarding integration of digital components and software. The SAE holds the line on most electronic modules but it's not regulatory. Things like digital coupling of the throttle through a potentiameter and position sensor and managed by module firmware and vehicle software, when manufactured by a 3rd party, how do you know you got a quality part built with quality materials.

I definitely think there is a place for this technology in the Auto industry. But I can't help but think what it will some day cost to replace a $.50 cent USB receptacle in the dash should it fail or become obselete.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
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Buttyman

Buttyman

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Reading about problems in a forum is akin to researching your medical problem on WebMD; both lead to the conclusion that it is fatal and hopeless.

Go to a Toyota forum (the pinnacle of quality, right?) and you'll see a large percentage of the posts about problems too. It's just human nature. People don't post when their truck started perfectly. They post when something didn't work. And then you have to filter out whether it was their fault or a true design/manufacturing flaw and if it is major or minor. Then confirmation bias will take over and you'll read of another occurrence and perceive that the problem is prevalent. All this based upon maybe three posts out of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of vehicles.

The fact is that most vehicles today are very well made. It's also a fact that mechanical things break. And the third leg to this stool is that dealer mechanics are often not experienced enough to solve the root issue so problems end up getting a life of their own on the forums.

I think you misinterpret my post. I'm fully aware that things wear out--my own body can attest to that! I also realize that vehicles are made well. My concern is that the technology in the cars/trucks can't be fixed by the average person and are dated as soon as they are sold. If my warranty runs out, and I blow a water pump. I can replace it--on the trail or at home. On the other hand, if my computer has a gremlin, I can't do anything about except rely on someone else to figure it out. Not whining here, just contemplating.
 

HEMIMANN

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Blame Volkswagen for introducing the first computer ever in vehicles. You may own the vehicle, but the manufacturer owns the software that runs it. Currently it isn't a criminal offense to modify the encrypted software on the vehicle you own, but aren't you really messing with their property?

VW 1968 advertising...

View attachment 233867

Farmers are up in arms that they can't fix their own engines - must have service tech with factory service software tools. I lived that in the PowerGen industry, too. I think we offered to sell the software service tool for a nice, fat profit, of course.
 

Rated R

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My plan is to get a Gen 5 PW with a 426 in it. That may get derailed with the new fraudulent administration though.
 
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