Only one cummins version available in 2025?

[stevenP]

Saw an insider video the other day stating that for 2025 the HD trucks with the cummins are only offered in the HO version now. So even in the 2500s, the engine will now be 430HP. Plus they are going to us a ZF 8 speed tranny now, no more 68RFE. Thats worth waiting for. But they did say that the engine option on the 2500s was going to go from $9700 to $12k now.

 

[crash68]

yeap, yeap and yeap.. along with the oil and both fuel filters will be on top the engine, there will be glow plugs and the crowd favorite a modified and updated CP4 based HPFP.
The block is going back to cast iron instead of CGI that's currently used. Guessing it to keep everything in line with the fuel agnostic engine design that Cummins has been working on.
Sounds like there will possibly be a new 7.2L coming in 2027 with a possible hydrogen version for 2028.

 

[nlambert182]

I hope that this time, they follow through with the 7.2L. They've sure teased with it for over a decade.

I'd be glad to have both fuel filters under the hood. I hate the rear filter. It's a PITA to wiggle around the exhaust and to reach all the way up to the bed to try and break it loose.

 

[Billet Bee]

yeap, yeap and yeap.. along with the oil and both fuel filters will be on top the engine, there will be glow plugs and the crowd favorite a modified and updated CP4 based HPFP.
The block is going back to cast iron instead of CGI that's currently used. Guessing it to keep everything in line with the fuel agnostic engine design that Cummins has been working on.
Sounds like there will possibly be a new 7.2L coming in 2027 with a possible hydrogen version for 2028.

Hopefully your just joking about the glow plugs and cp4 nightmare

 

[GTyankee]

Is that why Stellantis just built 2 more 800 foot long buildings down at the Saltillo Mexico property ??

Or are they going to move Ram 1500 production down there now ??

That would not make the UAW happy

2 new buildings constructed at Stellantis Saltillo Mexico site - Google Search

 

[crash68]

Hopefully your just joking about the glow plugs and cp4 nightmare

It hasn't been outright stated it's a CP4 but when the description states redesigned fuel pump to address reliability concerns in previous models. Maybe they'll build in the bypass return like S&S makes for the CP4.
Also they're moving to external fuel injectors and a Holset ten blade turbo.

2025 Ram Heavy Duty Set for Major Cummins Diesel Update - MoparInsiders

Ram is preparing to introduce its refreshed 2025 Ram 2500 and 3500 Heavy Duty trucks, and the biggest changes lie beneath the surface. While the exterior gets updated front-end styling and the interior receives minor improvements, the 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine is set to undergo...

moparinsiders.com

 

[Billet Bee]

It hasn't been outright stated it's a CP4 but when the description states redesigned fuel pump to address reliability concerns in previous models. Maybe they'll build in the bypass return like S&S makes for the CP4.
Also they're moving to external fuel injectors and a Holset ten blade turbo.

2025 Ram Heavy Duty Set for Major Cummins Diesel Update - MoparInsiders

Ram is preparing to introduce its refreshed 2025 Ram 2500 and 3500 Heavy Duty trucks, and the biggest changes lie beneath the surface. While the exterior gets updated front-end styling and the interior receives minor improvements, the 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine is set to undergo...

moparinsiders.com

It will be interesting to see what changes are actually made, after reading that link you posted (ty btw), with all those changes one would have to assume the hp & tq numbers would be going up. Glad to see the grid heater getting addressed, just never thought we'd see glow plugs utilized again.

 

[crash68]

It will be interesting to see what changes are actually made, after reading that link you posted (ty btw), with all those changes one would have to assume the hp & tq numbers would be going up. Glad to see the grid heater getting addressed, just never thought we'd see glow plugs utilized again.

I don't think there will be leaps and bounds with the HP/TQ number, probably about to slightly higher than the current HO version. As for the HPFP there is components within the pump can be hardened to deal with the lack of lube in the fuel along with programming changes to how it operates.
As for the glow plugs I'm guessing it's an efficiency concern, it takes lots of amps to run the grid heater. In the past the grid heater worked better in really cold to get a diesel started but with the higher pressure in direct injection the fuel can be atomized more for better cold starting.

 

[Billet Bee]

I don't think there will be leaps and bounds with the HP/TQ number, probably about to slightly higher than the current HO version. As for the HPFP there is components within the pump can be hardened to deal with the lack of lube in the fuel along with programming changes to how it operates.
As for the glow plugs I'm guessing it's an efficiency concern, it takes lots of amps to run the grid heater. In the past the grid heater worked better in really cold to get a diesel started but with the higher pressure in direct injection the fuel can be atomized more for better cold starting.

Ever since they recalled our cp4 pump for the modified cp3 our truck has run great and we tow a really heavy load. We also haven't had any issues with our Aisin trans, yea it shifts hard but that's just part of it and can't say we'd want an 8spd because the more back n forth shifting being done creates more potential for a failure or slippage of any kind. I guess im not sure why they've made such huge changes if theoretically they intend on going to as 7.2L in a couple years, or maybe they don't intend on doing that anytime soon. Definitely glad they got rid of the grid heater in the horn though because that's been the next weakest link since the cp4 debacle, but glow plugs, man it feels like we stepped back into the 1980's again. They've made some positive steps forward I just don't know why they went back to glow plugs when they could of designed there horn like Banks has, and from our point of view what is so much better about this zf8, yea it's tried and proven equipment but so is the Aisin. I guess I'd wish they just refined what we have and get better consistency instead of going in different directions, I mean how much more then a 43k plus gcwr load does one need to haul, we're already at 37k ourselves and were right on the money for pl rating and the truck does great going n stopping.

 

[crash68]

We also haven't had any issues with our Aisin trans, yea it shifts hard but that's just part of it and can't say we'd want an 8spd because the more back n forth shifting being done creates more potential for a failure or slippage of any kind

The ZF 8spd going behind the Cummins is the AT Powerline variant, it's designed robust enough for medium duty trucks. It's more like a 7 spd as first gear is like a creeper gear for when the truck is heavily loaded or starting on inclines. https://youtu.be/SDvDSDtBRIg
As for the glow plugs, it's about efficiency of heating the cylinder for starting and during running. A grid heater does a good job and is simple but uses a lot of current. That take HP to produce that energy with the alternator.
Even with towing capacities, it not about being able to pull more but to do the same work using less fuel. Doesn't sound like much to some people but what if your fully loaded towing fuel economy went up by 1 or 2 mpg ? When your getting 10 mpg while towing, getting 11 is a 10% gain.

 

[Billet Bee]

The ZF 8spd going behind the Cummins is the AT Powerline variant, it's designed robust enough for medium duty trucks. It's more like a 7 spd as first gear is like a creeper gear for when the truck is heavily loaded or starting on inclines. https://youtu.be/SDvDSDtBRIg
As for the glow plugs, it's about efficiency of heating the cylinder for starting and during running. A grid heater does a good job and is simple but uses a lot of current. That take HP to produce that energy with the alternator.
Even with towing capacities, it not about being able to pull more but to do the same work using less fuel. Doesn't sound like much to some people but what if your fully loaded towing fuel economy went up by 1 or 2 mpg ? When your getting 10 mpg while towing, getting 11 is a 10% gain.

So in other words the 8spd has a tractor gear, but again our Aisin feels like it's in tractor gear when we take off with a 27k trailer behind us, yea I'm sure the 8 speed with the deeper first gear ratio would help a tad but I can't honestly say in my opinion that it's worth abandoning the Aisin over. We're getting from 7.5-8.5 mpg when we're traveling and yes 1 or 2 gallons would mean that we could go an extra 50-100 miles on the same amount of fuel which would be nice but when I had this truck built I can honestly say that whatever the fuel mileage was, was zero concern to us because we wanted a ram with a Cummins/ Aisin with 400hp & 1000 ft lbs tq, fuel millage had zero impact in our decision buying a hohd truck. I get it they want to market better numbers because it's always a big 3 competition but when does someone say what we have is fricken great now lets just fine tune it here and there and run this body style/ motor/ transmission combo for 10 years or more like the good old days, that's how you become bullet proof.

 

[nlambert182]

The Aisin isn't without its own problems. Granted, they're far less than a 68RFE or any other variant but they're still there. I'd be pretty happy if the ZF option is as reliable as the one in the 1500s. Very well done.

I don't particularly care for glow plugs because I was around for the first couple of years of the 6.7 Powerstroke where GP tips were falling into cylinders, but as long as Cummins uses a quality GP and not a Chinese cheapo (like Ford tried to do) I'd be ok with it. They've been around for years. Crash makes a good point on those as well... it takes a lot less current to heat each cylinder via a GP than one grid heater trying to heat them all.

I'm interested to see what they do on the CP3/CP4. CP4s don't seem to be a problem anywhere but here, so if they can harden the failing components I'm not opposed.

 

[stevenP]

I also see the only rear end ratio will be 3.42 now with the new trans having a low first gear apparently. So more 4.10 or 3.73s.

 

[Goose55]

Also, after only 5 years, no more compacted graphite iron block. Now back to iron cast. I like how the oil and fuel filters are now in canisters mounted on the sides of the engine for easy access.

 

[crash68]

They've made some positive steps forward I just don't know why they went back to glow plugs when they could of designed there horn like Banks has

From the head of Ram's vehicle synthesis manager, part of the push to glow plugs was getting rid of the wait time on of the grid heater:

“This was really us with Cummins, but [we agreed] it’s time to get to glow plugs,” Killian told me. “And the start time, like in cold weather, just the reliability, it’s almost instant start. It’s down to three seconds versus 30-plus seconds before. So we really, you didn’t hear us mention glow plugs much [in an earlier presentation] because we’re kind of … it’s just a technology we’ve gotten to.”

“It’s been around for decades, and the grid heater was also working fine for startup, but you had to wait,” Killian continued. “Glow plugs—it was time. It was time to get there.”

When I asked if the switch to glow plugs was motivated by anything else, Killian replied, “No, not really. The glow plugs kind of came along for the ride.”

Why Ram Finally Ditched the Infamous Cummins Grid Heater for Glow Plugs

If your guess has anything to do with reliability or performance, that's not it.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Billet Bee]

From the head of Ram's vehicle synthesis manager, part of the push to glow plugs was getting rid of the wait time on of the grid heater:

Why Ram Finally Ditched the Infamous Cummins Grid Heater for Glow Plugs

If your guess has anything to do with reliability or performance, that's not it.

www.thedrive.com

It's a good read but I can't say I'm convinced because he's not going to openly say that we're going back to glow plugs because we want to stop anymore grid bolt failures. Even if those failures are only 1% of the Cummins trucks if they were to admit that then they might as well just say we failed and we're going to do a nationwide recall, and we both know that's highly unlikely. Of coarse they did it with the hpfp so miracles do happen, hopefully twice.

 

[BossHogg]

I've been watching with interest all the new YT videos of the 2025 HD Cummins test drives. I'm seriously considering replacing my 2015 with a 2025, but I discovered something. I have to say, the new ZF 8-speed is looking good. When I build my new RAM on their website, I do not see the rear air leveling system. I guess I will have to stop by a dealer and ask if it is an option gone.

 

[jejb]

It's a good read but I can't say I'm convinced because he's not going to openly say that we're going back to glow plugs because we want to stop anymore grid bolt failures. Even if those failures are only 1% of the Cummins trucks

The number has to be FAR lower than 1%, or we'd be seeing lots of threads here about it. When is the last time you read of a grid bolt failure? I read these forums every day and I have not seen a new thread about this issue in quite a while.

 

[tjfdesmo]

They aren't "going back" to glow plugs, as they never had them in the first place. The grid heater only became a problem when they cut a corner at some point. The BD solution directly addresses that. I am not a glow plug fan. They fail more than the old grid heater and offer more failure points.

Until I see a trustworthy source, such as S&S do a teardown of this "CP8" pump and prove otherwise, that pump is a CP4 variant, in my view, and I will steer clear. You can't polish a t-u-r-d.

 

[nlambert182]

The last number I saw was ~0.03%, but I honestly don't recall where I saw that now. As an example, if they only sold 1M trucks, that's 300 that have had the issue.

I get the idea behind the glowplugs. They've been around forever and I doubt Cummins decision has a single thing to do with grid heater bolt failures. The grid heater pulls between 180-200 amps. That's a lot on an electrical system. A set of 6 glow plugs will average ~100-110 amps. Historically, they're easier and cheaper to replace than a grid heater, and more evenly heat the cylinders and they do it more efficiently. Even if 1 or 2 fail, the system still works. It's not a one and done failure.

The grid heater bolt failure has been beat to death.