RAM is Down!

[Dinky]

Shocks me that the injectors tested good!!!!

Same with me, I think the dealer and Ram are lost at this point. Push rod damage usually develops after cam and lifter issues. They have a whole nother can of worms now.

 

[truck2569]

When I started having problems out of my 6.4l, I had just bought a brand new camper to match my truck, I was not happy. It was a 6 month ordeal, I ended up with the 6.7l.

You can't go wrong with the 6.7

 

[Dinky]

You can't go wrong with the 6.7

You can with the new ones lol

 

[06 Dodge]

Wowzers been away for a few weeks, now that I'm back I'm sorry to hear they still have not gotten you taken care of but hope they do so soon as to not ruin your whole summer for camping....

 

[Dinky]

Wowzers been away for a few weeks, now that I'm back I'm sorry to hear they still have not gotten you taken care of but hope they do so soon as to not ruin your whole summer for camping....

Yep they still haven't fix anything. They already ruined my trip to Arizona/New mexico. We're down here now visiting family and needed to haul my grandfathers tools back, had to get racks for the wife's grand cherokee.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I have been over at HD Ramforum with my issue. Got a hold of RAM care and they are working on it now. The dealer essentially did not listen to what I said, there is fuel in my oil. They ran a stationary regen with possible fuel in oil and low oil.


If you have a 5th gen diesel watch how often it regens, make sure the dealer knows about possible fuel in oil due to too frequent regen. Check your oil and pay for black stone so this does not happen to you. It's looking like this is my issue but won't know untill later this week. RAM care has taken the helm now and hopefully my motor isn't toast but it's not looking good.

(ORGINAL POST AT HDFORUM.)

My truck is 2022 3500 SRW S.O. 43K miles.

Last Friday I had my mechanic change my oil and fuel filter change. When he drained the oil it filled a 5gal pan with really thinned down oil and over flowed a bit. Approximately 2 gallon extra fluid, he told me to take it the dealer as I probably have a injector leak. So I called the dealer and told them the story and booked a appointment for Monday.

My check engine light was already on for frequent regen mode due to air filter.

Got to the dealer Monday morning and they had me scheduled for a oil change..... same guy I was talking to set the appointment up. Told the story once again and he said no problem we will make room for you.

Tuesday I get a phone call about regen and how they will force regen under warranty and install the partical recall and should take care of it. Then proceeded to tell me my pcv valve and crank case vent had oil in it from someone over filling my oil. He told me it would be $900 to replace those and won't be covered under warranty do to oil being over filled. I told the guy he was out of his mind of course there was oil there, the system filled 5gal pan on my last oil change. Asked him if they found any issues with my injectors or why I have excess fluid in my oil. He said he doesn't know because they didn't change my oil, he then told me they can't move forward with test until they replace the parts for $900. I told him to transfer me to the manager. I told assiatant manager to stop with the ******** and look at the issue I asked for and quit funding their fishing exhibition. He told me to test for leaks will be $220, I asked what test will they perform? The assitant manager told me a injector power balance test. I told him I am not a certified tech but I think that test is for making sure the injectors are functioning and doing equal load. He told me this test will make sure there are no leaks and if it passes the test there are zero chance of injector issues. I wasn't going to argue there and said if he can guarantee me this test will prove I have not leaks go for it.

Wednesday around 11am I get a call from the assistant manager saying it passed the power balance test no fuel leaks. They check oil level and they are good, added the partical sensor, did a stationary force regen and flashed and reprogrammed my ecu. The total was going to be $590 for test performed. At this point I said I'll come pick up my truck and plan to talk to the manager about the quality of service I received.

The real manager and I spent about 45mins talking about how they never listened to me about potential fuel in my oil and were looking for a quick buck. We came to the terms once my oil level went up I would return and they would not charge me for any testing. I figured that would be good since they technically didn't not see the fluid and were going off a paying customer word. We went out together to document the fluid level with a picture even though the tech marked safe operating level. I pulled the dip stick and no oil was on my dip stick..... they told me they just pulled it around and let it set for a minute to let oil drain down. We waited 15mins and the oil was barely marking on the dip stick. I looked at them and said see why I can't trust your team...I guess it's simple any oil on the dip stick I just bring it back right? The manager looked at the assitant manager like someone was getting punched out. The manager instructed me to drive it home and let it set for a hour and take a picture then. He said the tech said it was in safe operating level and will be good....So I drove home which is 2 miles from the dealer and had to get a ride to work to pick my jeep up. Once home I heard a loud clacking noise, sounds like a dead injector or cylinder slap. I took a video to capture the noise and returned to the dealer. Service advisor came out and heard the noise and said they will check my truck back in. I sent the video to the manager right then since he was not around i went home. No check engine lights on or any Christmas tree lights.

This morning I called @RamCares To Open a claim as thing are not looking like the dealer are going to take care of it. Still waiting for a call from the adjuster now.

The dealer called me a 5pm to tell me they found the clacking issue. They said my batteries need to be replaced as they were low causing ecu problems. One battery was 550cca and the other was 600cc.... they said once they balance and fully charged the batteries the noise went away..... they said they can replace them but it will cost me out of pocket.. I told them I will call them back tomorrow with an answer.

I find it very funny you force regen my truck on low oil... then flash the ecu and reprogram the computer and it makes noise and you blame it on batteries at 70%. You let the customer pick it up making noise and low oil. Hopefully Ram cares takes care of this. Still zero resolution on why there was excess very thing oil in my system.

I hear this type of ignorant dipsheet all the time from customers across the brand spectrum and on many varied models. My customers refer people to me who have had these hellish experiences.

I have concluded that several huge deficiencies band together to create this "same song, different verse" scenario.

First off, when you go to a dealership, you are conversing (typically) with a sales person on commission (aka Service Advisor). These people have NO CLUE as to the functionality of systems in these new-fangled vehicles most of the time. The other thing is the old "playing telephone" by interjecting an interim person into the mix, thus preventing you from conversing directly to the technician. Communication gets mangled EVERY TIME.

Secondly, good training combined with length of tooth is necessary for effective, accurate diagnostics can be done. Most older techs have quit, retired, or died and the pool of technicians out there embrace the notion of "The computer says" as a legit conclusive indicator.

The final though is that the culture or structure is not geared to the old fashioned customer care model. I notice when I call dealership parts departments for parts, the phone rings off the hook and eventually some boor answers the phone and, without addressing me, says "Thugmuffin Parts Department! Hold" Click!

Just based upon the stories I read here on the forums and the experiences I've had and stories related by my customers, I'm flabbergasted these pin-heads have jobs.

Sadly, the folks who understand true service beattitudes are very, very rare indeed.

 

[skates15]

Yep. I can never get a parts person on the phone. You can leave them a voice message or email and neither case will get a reply. Sales people will bother you to no end but when you need actual help, its not there.

 

[turkeybird56]

Boird lucky as I have decent dealership and SA ok. Just keep fingers crossed on my end.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Boird lucky as I have decent dealership and SA ok. Just keep fingers crossed on my end.

Finger crossing might not be necessary. Is it possible that the dealer principal is, in fact the original, individual owner, as opposed to some mega-conglomerate gazillion-aire outfit?
This would be a person who has "skin in the game". I've worked at a couple of dealerships over the years whose owner/ principal was an individual who came up through the ranks and know who pays the bills.... the customer.
Those guys set the tone for COMPETENCE in every department and suborned a culture of give-a-sheet. I've witnessed personnel get canned for being rude of non supportive to customers, as it should be. One dealer I worked at actually had all employees attend a telephone etiquette course. What an eye-opener!

The rude, cold, indifference I receive from people in the mega-store model businesses is reprehensible and smacks of poor character, in my world. But, that's why I work for myself.

 

[Dinky]

I hear this type of ignorant dipsheet all the time from customers across the brand spectrum and on many varied models. My customers refer people to me who have had these hellish experiences.

I have concluded that several huge deficiencies band together to create this "same song, different verse" scenario.

First off, when you go to a dealership, you are conversing (typically) with a sales person on commission (aka Service Advisor). These people have NO CLUE as to the functionality of systems in these new-fangled vehicles most of the time. The other thing is the old "playing telephone" by interjecting an interim person into the mix, thus preventing you from conversing directly to the technician. Communication gets mangled EVERY TIME.

Secondly, good training combined with length of tooth is necessary for effective, accurate diagnostics can be done. Most older techs have quit, retired, or died and the pool of technicians out there embrace the notion of "The computer says" as a legit conclusive indicator.

It's a combination of bad mechanic and manufacturer. The manufacturer will only approve certain things for warranty and dealer won't pay out of pocket to explore the actual problem. Now if the manufacturer does not get good information on what is actually found or issue that are there. The manufacturer will never know what the problem is. They have STAR which is Rams elite group looking into it but that still does not mean anything.

I myself am a gear head and can turn wrenches and 20 years of trade skills. I was a maintenance Tech for a shoe company, all the equipment we worked on was German or another country. All manuals or schematic were in another language. We always had to think outside the box or actually think as most issues were all different. If you couldn't figure it out or actually fix it you would lose hours of production. It very frustrating to sit back and watch for weeks and nothing gets fixed. When the dealer treats you like a ******** and their tech are king, but can't even change your oil right makes my top blow.

The time of good tech are going away, we only have parts replacement people now. I Rather go to a private mechanic shop for service and repair but you can not do that for warranty work. If i had more time I would wrench on my own vehicles. My fleet vehicles I take to my buddy that owns a shop, He will diagnose the real issue and actually think with his head vs just replace parts. It typically a lot cheaper and way better quality. Some of the vehicles today and how complex they are most shops will not be able to repair most new vehicles. The specialty tools and reader needed most small shops won't be able to afford. The industry is set to take a big hit.

 

[oledirteh]

i feel for you bro, followed this on HD as well.

sadly, i dont trust dealerships anymore. ive done all my own work on my last 3 cummins (Knock on wood nothing major) so i know it was done, might not be done right, but most of the time done better then what they provide at a stupid price.

best of luck to you man.

 

[Dinky]

i feel for you bro, followed this on HD as well.

sadly, i dont trust dealerships anymore. ive done all my own work on my last 3 cummins (Knock on wood nothing major) so i know it was done, might not be done right, but most of the time done better then what they provide at a stupid price.

best of luck to you man.

Yeah the dealership has been worthless. I won't ever go back to them for anything. My friend I wheel with is a sales manager there and I will never buy from him again untill he switches dealerships. This will be week 12 with no truck, no time frame, or if they even know what's wrong.

 

[skates15]

Yeah the dealership has been worthless. I won't ever go back to them for anything. My friend I wheel with is a sales manager there and I will never buy from him again untill he switches dealerships. This will be week 12 with no truck, no time frame, or if they even know what's wrong.

Sorry to hear it. 3 months is rough. Stay positive and kick ass.

 

[Sherman Bird]

It's a combination of bad mechanic and manufacturer. The manufacturer will only approve certain things for warranty and dealer won't pay out of pocket to explore the actual problem. Now if the manufacturer does not get good information on what is actually found or issue that are there. The manufacturer will never know what the problem is. They have STAR which is Rams elite group looking into it but that still does not mean anything.

I myself am a gear head and can turn wrenches and 20 years of trade skills. I was a maintenance Tech for a shoe company, all the equipment we worked on was German or another country. All manuals or schematic were in another language. We always had to think outside the box or actually think as most issues were all different. If you couldn't figure it out or actually fix it you would lose hours of production. It very frustrating to sit back and watch for weeks and nothing gets fixed. When the dealer treats you like a ******** and their tech are king, but can't even change your oil right makes my top blow.

The time of good tech are going away, we only have parts replacement people now. I Rather go to a private mechanic shop for service and repair but you can not do that for warranty work. If i had more time I would wrench on my own vehicles. My fleet vehicles I take to my buddy that owns a shop, He will diagnose the real issue and actually think with his head vs just replace parts. It typically a lot cheaper and way better quality. Some of the vehicles today and how complex they are most shops will not be able to repair most new vehicles. The specialty tools and reader needed most small shops won't be able to afford. The industry is set to take a big hit.

It's a combination of bad mechanic and manufacturer. The manufacturer will only approve certain things for warranty and dealer won't pay out of pocket to explore the actual problem. Now if the manufacturer does not get good information on what is actually found or issue that are there. The manufacturer will never know what the problem is. They have STAR which is Rams elite group looking into it but that still does not mean anything.

I myself am a gear head and can turn wrenches and 20 years of trade skills. I was a maintenance Tech for a shoe company, all the equipment we worked on was German or another country. All manuals or schematic were in another language. We always had to think outside the box or actually think as most issues were all different. If you couldn't figure it out or actually fix it you would lose hours of production. It very frustrating to sit back and watch for weeks and nothing gets fixed. When the dealer treats you like a ******** and their tech are king, but can't even change your oil right makes my top blow.

The time of good tech are going away, we only have parts replacement people now. I Rather go to a private mechanic shop for service and repair but you can not do that for warranty work. If i had more time I would wrench on my own vehicles. My fleet vehicles I take to my buddy that owns a shop, He will diagnose the real issue and actually think with his head vs just replace parts. It typically a lot cheaper and way better quality. Some of the vehicles today and how complex they are most shops will not be able to repair most new vehicles. The specialty tools and reader needed most small shops won't be able to afford. The industry is set to take a big hit.

Why do YOU think "good" techs are going away? What culture or cultures exist and always have existed which created these negative realities?

I'll give you a pass and review from my perspective developed over 48 years as a professional automotive tech.

How many professionals do you know of work a majority of their waking days in the whims of mother nature's climate? Freeze your butt off in the winter and endure temperatures here in Houston, in the bays, of typically 120+ degrees with humidity north of 80%?

Add to that the cost of technician's tools and boxes. Over a career, a tech can lay out over 3/4 of a million dollars.

Then, there is the physicality of the hard work and the toll that many decades on one's feet on concrete extoll from the chap's body.

Add to that the mental stresses of comebacks and back flags and generally being under paid for just these demands on the mechanic, not to mention getting filthy.

And what has society done historically to the image of automotive techs? That's right folks! Tonight's GRAND FINALE is that society thinks of mechanics as stupid, uneducated dolts! Just look at "Gomer Pyle, and Goober!
On national TV primetime for the world to have that idiotic slant placed on hardworking men. I mean Goober wearing a beanie? Really?

My first house was in an upscale neighborhood over 40 years ago. I had snob neighbors whose hubris drove them to actually ask me why I didn't live in a trailer park!

I've worked in my own climate controlled shop for17 years now. This came about after I suffered a heat stroke.
Some places have actually decided that we "meekaniks" were and are deserving of better treatment than zoo animals regarding work environment and have put climate controls in their shops. A few have begun to mitigate the heavy financial burden to mechanics by providing more tools, but not all of them.

My skin has thickened and I do not fathom working for anyone else. I'M still impassioned about fixing cars, and I've never allowed the negatives control me. Most of my education and training came from my own motivation and expense, although I did attend GM's Training facility on Richmond Avenue near the Galleria at first and then when they moved to the San Jacinto Community College in Deerpark/ Pasadena Texas. I also attended Ford's training facility while working for them.

The one thing no amount of money can purchase from competent, accurate techs is "Give-a-damn".

 

[Dinky]

Why do YOU think "good" techs are going away? What culture or cultures exist and always have existed which created these negative realities?

I'll give you a pass and review from my perspective developed over 48 years as a professional automotive tech.

How many professionals do you know of work a majority of their waking days in the whims of mother nature's climate? Freeze your butt off in the winter and endure temperatures here in Houston, in the bays, of typically 120+ degrees with humidity north of 80%?

Add to that the cost of technician's tools and boxes. Over a career, a tech can lay out over 3/4 of a million dollars.

Then, there is the physicality of the hard work and the toll that many decades on one's feet on concrete extoll from the chap's body.

Add to that the mental stresses of comebacks and back flags and generally being under paid for just these demands on the mechanic, not to mention getting filthy.

And what has society done historically to the image of automotive techs? That's right folks! Tonight's GRAND FINALE is that society thinks of mechanics as stupid, uneducated dolts! Just look at "Gomer Pyle, and Goober!
On national TV primetime for the world to have that idiotic slant placed on hardworking men. I mean Goober wearing a beanie? Really?

My first house was in an upscale neighborhood over 40 years ago. I had snob neighbors whose hubris drove them to actually ask me why I didn't live in a trailer park!

I've worked in my own climate controlled shop for17 years now. This came about after I suffered a heat stroke.
Some places have actually decided that we "meekaniks" were and are deserving of better treatment than zoo animals regarding work environment and have put climate controls in their shops. A few have begun to mitigate the heavy financial burden to mechanics by providing more tools, but not all of them.

My skin has thickened and I do not fathom working for anyone else. I'M still impassioned about fixing cars, and I've never allowed the negatives control me. Most of my education and training came from my own motivation and expense, although I did attend GM's Training facility on Richmond Avenue near the Galleria at first and then when they moved to the San Jacinto Community College in Deerpark/ Pasadena Texas. I also attended Ford's training facility while working for them.

The one thing no amount of money can purchase from competent, accurate techs is "Give-a-damn".

Good techs are going away because this new generation is a bunch of wimps. The manufacturers making them jump through hoops on what they think is right. The higher paying skilled job, i know intel has hired a lot of master tech in my area. Not knocking your ability by any means. Not knocking mechanics as dolts. I think you took what I said wrong. Ive employed the new generation in construction and its not looking good for the majority. Oh and by the way come join me on the roof tops year round. Wind, rain,snow, direct sunlight for 12 hour, temps well over 120deg. I live it everyday

 

[oledirteh]

not wrong. When i take my ram to the dealer and then have to pay 200$ for a oil change that costs me 70$ and a beer to do in my garage then find out that they didnt put the oil cap in, use proper oil, or hell every case not even put in the right amount thats an issue. all be a consistent issue. they do it frequently to my buddy and now i and or him is doing his oil changes.

Had a code on my transmission. take it in and because i had the banks monster intake on my ram, they claimed i was tuned and needed because i race around its over powering the clutchs. Welp, my truck isnt tuned, nor do i race around. i granny my truck around.

Same dealer works on ford, my 6.0 EGR melted. 3 months to fix. it litterly sat there. not even looked at. i told them i suspected head gasket but after 3 months i hit a deer with my other truck and that was in the shop. no eta on my ford. i went and complained to the owner of the dealerships and 2 days later both trucks were ready for pick up.

i do not do dealerships any longer. they will fight you on anything, its not even worth the waranty anymore. whats the point. 90% of the time i know more about the problem or motor then these techs do now and just order the parts or upgrade the stuff on my own.

 

[Sherman Bird]

not wrong. When i take my ram to the dealer and then have to pay 200$ for a oil change that costs me 70$ and a beer to do in my garage then find out that they didnt put the oil cap in, use proper oil, or hell every case not even put in the right amount thats an issue. all be a consistent issue. they do it frequently to my buddy and now i and or him is doing his oil changes.

Had a code on my transmission. take it in and because i had the banks monster intake on my ram, they claimed i was tuned and needed because i race around its over powering the clutchs. Welp, my truck isnt tuned, nor do i race around. i granny my truck around.

Same dealer works on ford, my 6.0 EGR melted. 3 months to fix. it litterly sat there. not even looked at. i told them i suspected head gasket but after 3 months i hit a deer with my other truck and that was in the shop. no eta on my ford. i went and complained to the owner of the dealerships and 2 days later both trucks were ready for pick up.

i do not do dealerships any longer. they will fight you on anything, its not even worth the waranty anymore. whats the point. 90% of the time i know more about the problem or motor then these techs do now and just order the parts or upgrade the stuff on my own.

I'm not attacking anyone. I AM long of tooth enough to have seen in my own perspective, spanning 5 decades of this business to know that the dynamics have changed almost none in terms of Human Resources.
Your point about a 200 dollar oil change is definitely one which has spanned the times going back for as long as there have been automotive garages. Dollar amounts have followed economics, that's all.

The reaction of the dealer to your modification, again is in line with many decades of the idea that, somehow, dealers are last-word geniuses not to be trifled with. Somehow, Dealers have had the idea over the decades that their Shhet doesn't stink. I will give credit to the manufacturers' training quality as opposed to aftermarket training. My own experience was with GM and Ford, so I can't accurately speak to FCA.

Calling folks "wimps" is a bit of a stretch, IMHO. I was capable of "taking it" when I was young and fit, as far as climate issues were concerned, and, as flattering as your offer to join you on the roof tops is, I am far enough past "I can't physically take it anymore" to appreciate the advice given to me by old mechanics about paying a price for abusing my body, back when I shared your tough mentality, and decline the offer. That heat stroke I had occurred when I was 52. The heat that day was upper 90's, I was in an uninsulated sheet metal building, the humidity was about 90%.... Heat indices was in the 3 figure range. That close call made me realize that the old mechanics had been thoroughly correct. Needless to say, my building is heated, airconditioned, and dehumidified. If I'm thought of as a wimp, so be it. I've more than paid my dues. My body tells me all about it, every day! Many, many of my peers have preceded me in quitting the profession or retiring, some have died.

Training IS an issue. The fact that the dealer let your car sit untouched for so long alludes to a management problem, realistically, though. My last experience as a GM dealer tech was in late 1999. At that time, Ivory Tower folks from up yonder in Detroit would take note of, say, nitrous on a TransAm and direct me to fix the smoked transmission under warranty anyway.... even though their timeslips from Houston International Raceway Park were clearly left sitting on the front passenger seat and their racing class still grease penciled in on the windshield.

Clearly, the adversarial climate within the structure of Dealership, manufacturer, service personnel, and the consumer exists now, as it did 3 decades ago, and always has; at least as is indicated in all the stories I hear and witness unfold on forums. Throw in the spice of stark rudeness in the dealers, and there you have it! Sadly, when I've phoned the higher up management to voice my ire about the rudeness, the managers retort with "We just can't find people to work". I wonder if those managers actually listened to themselves (sigh).

Will it EVER get better? Definitely maybe!

 

[oledirteh]

I get you 100%. don't get me wrong.

Im a mechanic as a hobby, and i do IT for my main job. however i have family that have worked for ram and ford as mechanics. i know how hard it is and what it costs them. Snap on dealers thank them for their service lol. But, between dealers keeping them from doing their job, the manufacturer keeping them from doing their job, and when its time to do said job, the book tells them its a 4.5 hr job and we damn well know it's a 8 hr job is keeping people from wanting to do the work anymore.

add on the fact that its manual labor. its dirty work. and customers are ******. no one fresh from playing fort nite and living in their parent's basement wants to do that. Older i get the more i wish i had went into something other then IT. cause this crap is boring.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I get you 100%. don't get me wrong.

Im a mechanic as a hobby, and i do IT for my main job. however i have family that have worked for ram and ford as mechanics. i know how hard it is and what it costs them. Snap on dealers thank them for their service lol. But, between dealers keeping them from doing their job, the manufacturer keeping them from doing their job, and when its time to do said job, the book tells them its a 4.5 hr job and we damn well know it's a 8 hr job is keeping people from wanting to do the work anymore.

add on the fact that its manual labor. its dirty work. and customers are ******. no one fresh from playing fort nite and living in their parent's basement wants to do that. Older i get the more i wish i had went into something other then IT. cause this crap is boring.

My 54 year old Son-in-Law had to go back to mechanic work a bit over 2 years ago. He recently took a new job making 45 dollars per flat rate hour. That sounds pretty good..... until I got to thinking about my best paying job (in terms of per FR hour pay) in the 1970's. That job was at one of Houston's Cadillac dealers. I was making $13.25 per FR hour. Pretty darned good for those times.

So I googled the equivalency to today. And I was flabbergasted! It translates to 62.96 dollars an hour today!.

I guess the power that be (Dealer associations) figure mechanics are too stupid to figure out the "creep" downwards over the years and that we mechanics are getting ripped off. And then they have the unmitigated gall to bellyache that it is so hard to get/keep good mechanics. In all of the 48 years I've been doing this, I have listened to many mechanics cry the blues about pay ratio degradation.

The only relief I've gotten is to work for myself. Period. But that brings on new challenges! Peace!

 

[Yardbird]

I worked the parts counter at a Freightliner dealership in the early 80's. We employed some older mechanics that were nothing short of genius. We also had at least one that was the dumbest person to walk on foot, and another not much better.

I work the shop parts counter a lot. He would come to me asking for some of the stupidest things for the job he was doing. As far as I can remember, he never successfully completed a correct repain the whole time I was there.

I had owned my own OTR truck, and did most of my own work, up to and including rebuilding my engine, so I knew something about what he needed to be doing, as opposed to what he was doing.

He ran up an almost 7k bill on a smaller motor home on what should have been less that half that, and the problem still wasn't corrected.

There are people in every field of business that haven't a clue as to what is going on.