Should I get a Diesel

[lobo]

Hi

As you may know I have a 2022 2500 with the 6.4L and 4.1 rear that pulls my Bullet 260RBS. The trailer has a gross weight of 7600lb and a measured tongue weight of 1100lb. We upgraded to the 2500 because my payload was over on my 1500. Some of you know my truck is now in the shop after 10K with a lifter issue. This has me concerned about the strength and longevity of the 6.4L engine and I am thinking of trading it in on a diesel 2500. What do you guys think?

When not towing the trips are around town and trips that are under 50mph. This is why we purchased the 6.4L in the first place since I heard this is not really good for a diesel engine. My current truck has no issues pulling my trailers or doing what I want, just concerned with the motor.

Advice is welcomed.

Thanks everyone
Joe

A diesel will handle idling in town much better than a gasoline engine but will cost more.

 

[2Tallguy]

After all these years how tough is the lifter issue to get resolved?

 

[2Tallguy]

A diesel will handle idling in town much better than a gasoline engine but will cost more.

The new ones aren't great at long term idling with the DPF. It can clog at low temperatures and induce constant regens. I have a 2007 5.9 and they can be idled all day.

 

[CMV157]

From my observations, the newer Hemis seem to have a lower fail rate than before but some of that could be only because they haven't lived as long. It seems like most of them do fine but there is that small percentage that don't survive long for whatever reason. I got a 75k 10 year warranty for ours (non FCA) so I won't get too nervous about it until outside of that! Almost all of the miles we put on ours is towing so time will tell. It gets run hard. 12k miles on our 2022 right now and it has had basically no odd sounds as of yet.

 

[HEMIMANN]

From my observations, the newer Hemis seem to have a lower fail rate than before but some of that could be only because they haven't lived as long. It seems like most of them do fine but there is that small percentage that don't survive long for whatever reason. I got a 75k 10 year warranty for ours (non FCA) so I won't get too nervous about it until outside of that! Almost all of the miles we put on ours is towing so time will tell. It gets run hard. 12k miles on our 2022 right now and it has had basically no odd sounds as of yet.

I think that's right - FCA changed lifter suppliers starting with 2017 model year Hemi's. Supposedly some design paramters changed as well, but we know for sure they changed lifter suppliers - evidence was posted years ago in the Forum.

We don't have an insider with dealers or corporate to tell us if failure rates changed, only member reports and I'd agree I've seen less, but there have been some - and as you say, fewer miles on newer models on average.

So, this hasn't solved the problem. It's a an internal design issue. Factual evidence that marginal lubrication plays a direct role has been established via use of super additized engine oils. So that's what we use.

No guarantee super oil alone will prevent a failure. Guys have also upped their idle speed from the dumb EPA fuel requirement attempt of lower than historical idle rpm (slows oil flow to already starved lifter rollers). Factory engines set at 650 rpm. Historical is 750 rpm.

 

[Snoopy]

You dont gain hardley anything with a 3500 unless you get the dual rear wheels.

 

[Mark47ak]

Hi

As you may know I have a 2022 2500 with the 6.4L and 4.1 rear that pulls my Bullet 260RBS. The trailer has a gross weight of 7600lb and a measured tongue weight of 1100lb. We upgraded to the 2500 because my payload was over on my 1500. Some of you know my truck is now in the shop after 10K with a lifter issue. This has me concerned about the strength and longevity of the 6.4L engine and I am thinking of trading it in on a diesel 2500. What do you guys think?

When not towing the trips are around town and trips that are under 50mph. This is why we purchased the 6.4L in the first place since I heard this is not really good for a diesel engine. My current truck has no issues pulling my trailers or doing what I want, just concerned with the motor.

Advice is welcomed.

Thanks everyone
Joe

6.4 WITH 410 GEARS IS A good match for what your pulling, gas is cheaper, more places can service. I have a 2018 6.4 410 with goose neck. ORDER It 2wd for added pull. NO PROBLEMS AT 26K MILES. Pulled 5th wheel 5k miles ,no issues.

 

[tron67j]

Sorry to hear if your problems. Hope you get back to enjoying traveling life soon.

If my math is right (smarter people than me may correct this) your turning your engine over about 40 more times per every 100 revolutions of your rear axle going from 3.73 to 4.10 gears. So the engine is working harder to drive highway speeds. Did this contribute to your problem, I have no way to say but it is one of many factors to investigate for the failure.

You can certainly upgrade to a 3500 diesel, but it should be the solution to a definitive problem you find in your analysis. If, for example, you love huge tires and aggressive driving while towing, then might be a a consideration. If you are within weights, drive conservatively (which may be below posted speed) and aren't crossing the Continental Divide regularly, and the causation was a defective part then your repaired truck may be fine for you.

Good luck!

 

[HEMIMANN]

Tron, you got it backwards. For a given load, an engine turning higher rpm is using less torque at the higher rpm. In other words, power = torque times rpm.

When you use a gas engine to tow, going to higher gear ratio gives you higher engine rpm and your tow capacity goes up. One look at truck towing charts shows this.

What you sacrifice to do that is consuming more gasoline and faster engine wear to pull that load.

Which is why diesels are used with lower gear ratios - they have higher torque at lower rpm. But the rest of the drivetrain has to be able to take that higher torque at lower rpm - transmision, u-joints, drive shaft, etc. Diesels use less fuel and wear, but cost more to purchase, because their cylinder pressures are so much higher than spark engines.

 

[man n black]

Some things to consider OP:
1. If you think you need/want the Cummins...GET IT....particularly for towing your life will be much improved with heavier chunk of metal under the hood, the lower revs and particularly the exhaust brake. Further, the Gen4 and newer CrewCab trucks are super comfy for long distance trips..even unloaded and with the 3.42 diff ratio they get decent gas mileage too.

2. What is the requirement for Emissions testing where you live?
...My first Cummins was a 2009 6.7 that I ran on a tuner for bit in Cali with the DPF installed. It did regen more often but was also a freeway queen and I never had any problems with it. My second, a Gen4 Cummins powered 2500 we bought shortly before we moved to a place where all we had to do was VIN verify to register and re-register. Deleting the DPF was a no brainer at that point and for the next 10 years, when we weren't towing our trailer, the truck rarely if ever was drove for more than 20 minutes at a time and there were no freeways where we lived. In winter the truck would often spend a month or more outside, buried under 2-3ft of snow though we kept it plugged in. We have had ZERO engine related problems with our truck.

My point in saying this is it would be smart to check into your local / state emissions testing requirements AND if you can delete the DPF you should, unless the truck is DEF equipped in which case it doesn't matter as my understanding of the DEF system is to increase burn temps so that DPF filters dont get clogged.
Ymmv
Ch

 

[StNick]

I am a long-time Diesel fan but if I were to need a new truck it probably wouldn't be a diesel. I have a 94 Cummins/5-speed Ram 2500 and love it but I don't have to deal with emission tests, DFF filter or DEF. I can't see paying an extra 10K$ for a diesel since I don't tow or haul enough to justify a diesel. My truck is basically empty most of the time. You need to decide if the diesel is what you really need in light of the additional up-front costs, fuel costs, DEF costs, and possibly $1000 plus to replace the DPF at some later date. Modern gas trucks have improved gas mileage over that of years ago. Another reason I wouldn't even consider a new truck is that I hate automatics. I drove a ten-speed big rig for many years and hated any automatics, but that's just me.

 

[Joe Merchak]

I dont know what I am going to do. The truck is back and the ticking when starting warm is gone but it still does it when the engine is cold and the trans is cause the RPM to go up due to engine braking. There is nothing I can do about that since I live on top of the hill and the entrance of my development is at the bottom of the hill. I tried to let it warm up (it was 75 out) for 5 min but it still does it. I am not going to idle the truck 20 min to get it full temp before we head out.

It only does it when there no load on hte engine (off the gas) but the rpm are high due to the trans trying to do engine braking. It sounds like a bunch of marbles rattling around. Once you hit the gas it stops.

I cant see how this is going to be any good for a engine for the long run.

 

[Danny Phillips]

I have a 2015 Cummins, it has 31,000 miles on it. I originally bought it to tow our fifth wheel which weighs in at about 15,000 pounds around the country. Due to medical issues, we have had to settle down. I drive about 8 miles a week to and from town and never had a problem with DEF system. Occasionally we travel down to Phoenix area, about 80 miles.

 

[jejb]

You dont gain hardley anything with a 3500 unless you get the dual rear wheels.

You gain something like 1600lbs of payload. That's a lot of pin weight addition for 5th wheel folks.

 

[2003F350]

I dont know what I am going to do. The truck is back and the ticking when starting warm is gone but it still does it when the engine is cold and the trans is cause the RPM to go up due to engine braking. There is nothing I can do about that since I live on top of the hill and the entrance of my development is at the bottom of the hill. I tried to let it warm up (it was 75 out) for 5 min but it still does it. I am not going to idle the truck 20 min to get it full temp before we head out.

It only does it when there no load on hte engine (off the gas) but the rpm are high due to the trans trying to do engine braking. It sounds like a bunch of marbles rattling around. Once you hit the gas it stops.

I cant see how this is going to be any good for a engine for the long run.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you shouldn't be trying to engine brake in that situation - engine braking is more important when trying to slow down with a load.

What you're experiencing is essentially you're spinning the engine faster from the crank instead of the pistons, which isn't good for it, really. What you might be experiencing is spark knock, as the computer is actually pulling fuel because the engine doesn't need it, your air/fuel ratio is going wonky, and the engine starts to knock because it barely has enough fuel to keep running. It goes away once you're actually using the engine to power the vehicle again because everything is going back to normal. This usually won't throw an engine light if it's just for a few seconds.

This is DIFFERENT from 'engine braking.'

I don't know that a diesel would solve the problem you're having - you're trying to use the engine to keep you slow, when in reality, given that it sounds like you're trying to leave a subdivision that's probably 25mph or less, you should just use the brakes. I know you'll go through them more, but brakes are CHEAP compared to potentially replacing an engine.

 

[ramffml]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you shouldn't be trying to engine brake in that situation - engine braking is more important when trying to slow down with a load.

What you're experiencing is essentially you're spinning the engine faster from the crank instead of the pistons, which isn't good for it, really. What you might be experiencing is spark knock, as the computer is actually pulling fuel because the engine doesn't need it, your air/fuel ratio is going wonky, and the engine starts to knock because it barely has enough fuel to keep running. It goes away once you're actually using the engine to power the vehicle again because everything is going back to normal. This usually won't throw an engine light if it's just for a few seconds.

This is DIFFERENT from 'engine braking.'

I don't know that a diesel would solve the problem you're having - you're trying to use the engine to keep you slow, when in reality, given that it sounds like you're trying to leave a subdivision that's probably 25mph or less, you should just use the brakes. I know you'll go through them more, but brakes are CHEAP compared to potentially replacing an engine.

The 5.7 and 6.4 will engine brake automatically. It senses you're going down hill, as soon as you tap the brakes it drops a gear or two and cuts fuel. All automatic, nothing you can do to stop this.

 

[Joe Merchak]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you shouldn't be trying to engine brake in that situation - engine braking is more important when trying to slow down with a load.

What you're experiencing is essentially you're spinning the engine faster from the crank instead of the pistons, which isn't good for it, really. What you might be experiencing is spark knock, as the computer is actually pulling fuel because the engine doesn't need it, your air/fuel ratio is going wonky, and the engine starts to knock because it barely has enough fuel to keep running. It goes away once you're actually using the engine to power the vehicle again because everything is going back to normal. This usually won't throw an engine light if it's just for a few seconds.

This is DIFFERENT from 'engine braking.'

I don't know that a diesel would solve the problem you're having - you're trying to use the engine to keep you slow, when in reality, given that it sounds like you're trying to leave a subdivision that's probably 25mph or less, you should just use the brakes. I know you'll go through them more, but brakes are CHEAP compared to potentially replacing an engine.

Tell that to the transmission, I cannot stop it from happen unless I put in "N". I use the brakes when I go downhill and the more I use them the more the truck downshifts. Its stupid, I dont need the transmission to do it for me but it extremely aggressive when its cold.

 

[KKBB]

Just put it in neutral then.

 

[Choupique]

Man, screw that. The thing oughta be able to handle downhill driving without me doing anything and without sounding like it's eating rocks.

OP, you should just sell it. You've got a sour taste already, you'll never trust it again. Trade it in.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I dont know what I am going to do. The truck is back and the ticking when starting warm is gone but it still does it when the engine is cold and the trans is cause the RPM to go up due to engine braking. There is nothing I can do about that since I live on top of the hill and the entrance of my development is at the bottom of the hill. I tried to let it warm up (it was 75 out) for 5 min but it still does it. I am not going to idle the truck 20 min to get it full temp before we head out.

It only does it when there no load on hte engine (off the gas) but the rpm are high due to the trans trying to do engine braking. It sounds like a bunch of marbles rattling around. Once you hit the gas it stops.

I cant see how this is going to be any good for a engine for the long run.

Sorry if this is late to the party - did you check exhaust manifold? Ticking only when cold is classic exhaust gas leak noise. If it's clattering, then it's piston slap. 6.4's had piston slap when they first came out, btw.