Troubleshooting Pulley Squeal on 2003 2500

[Cerd]

I recently bought a 2003 Ram 2500 with 5.7L Hemi for towing. I am going through it to make it sound for towing a 7000lb camper and an ATV in the box.

Backstory, it was an old farm truck. The previous owner had a burnt lifter, did some diagnostics and ended up installing a used motor.
There was a nasty squeal from the pulleys, so I replaced the idlers with Dorman metal idlers that I have used before with great success. The plastic ones tend to grenade in sub zero weather, so I gave up on them. I also changed the tensioner. The idlers and tensioner were cheap enough, so I wasn't concerned.

The idlers and tensioner helped the squeal a fair amount, but it was still there. Next, I used some silicone spray to pinpoint the pulleys to locate the squeal, which led to the AC Compressor. The truck came with the old motor since he didn't want to dispose of it and it included the pulleys. I went to change the clutch and pulley since that is easy enough and I have done it before- or so I thought. I fought with the outer plate since it was rusted on the spline. I finally got it off, but the casting that holds the retaining clip broke off. Due to the damage, I had to replace that.

The squeal is better yet, but not gone. I would like to spray test the other pulleys, but I cannot reach them even with a straw when the fan is spinning.

Any thoughts?

I would also like to add that I am fairly competent wrenching. I am not a mechanic, but I am usually able to find the issue without swapping parts. I have Durango with a Hemi as well, so I am familiar with it already. I just wanted to consult others for ideas before dumping more money into it. I do also have a water pump and fan clutch on order because I didn't want to chance overheating with that much weight behind it. That would leave the power steering and alternator, which are a bit more expensive than the other stuff.

 

[Black-Wolf]

There are 7 things that cause squeal: 1) bad bearings inside the pulley; 2) improper tension on the belt - i.e.: the idler pulley isn't providing proper tension; 3) something rubbing the belt or a pulley; 4) misaligned pulley; 5) misaligned belt (the belt is not centering properly across all the pulleys; 6) lack of proper lubrication on the bearings (which eventually leads to bad bearings) and lastly: 7) incorrect type of belt (v-belt vs. flat-belt vs. toothed-belt). 2003's should use a v-belt with multiple v-grooves on one side, and flat on the other. All the groves should match PERFECTLY with the pulleys that they travel across/have direct contact with.

Things to check are: 1) with the engine running, observe the entire belt travel from point A all the way around each pulley, and back to point A. It shouldn't "wander" across any pulleys, and the pulleys shouldn't look like they're wobbling. It also should have at least a 1/4" clearance from all engine parts/projections and should ONLY come in contact with the pulleys - you'll need to use a flashlight and be careful while checking since the engine is running.

2) Check the belt (with the engine off) for excessive wear, esp. around one edge or the other.

3) The idler pulley should be a free-spinning pulley. Take the belt off and verify it spins completely freely, has not "grittiness" to it's movement, and doesn't squeak when it's spun by hand.

4) the Generator, Power Steering, and crankshaft pulleys should NOT spin freely - nor should they have any wobble to them. The A/C Pulley should be able to be turned by hand (with the belt off) but shouldn't free spin too easily - when the A/C Clutch engages as you turn on the A/C, and that's when the pulley is mated to the A/C compressor to provide the mechanical power for the compressor to compress the freon.

5) If you see any rust on a pulley, esp. inside where the shaft connects it to the main body of whatever it's meant for, you probably have a lubrication/bearing issue. You should also be able to take a long ratchet extension, and CAREFULLY put it on the body of a pulley (not on the rotating part of the pulley!), and then put your ear against the other end lightly and "listen" while the engine is running. I put my ear against the female end of the extension to do this and use the male end against the body of the pulley. If a pulley has bad bearings that are squealing, you'll hear it "through" the extension (similar to using a water glass to "listen" to your neighbors through an apartment wall - not saying I've done that...). Again, be careful if you are doing this! If you have or can borrow a stethoscope, that's a much better option than putting your ear directly on the extension.

 

[Cerd]

Thanks Black-Wolf. I responded in CAPS below to make it easier to see my responses. Regarding alignment of the belt, I will take a look and record a video. It seems okay to me, but obviously I am missing something.



There are 7 things that cause squeal: 1) bad bearings inside the pulley; 2) improper tension on the belt - i.e.: the idler pulley isn't providing proper tension NEW IDLERS AND TENSIONER; 3) something rubbing the belt or a pulley NOTHING STANDS OUT; 4) misaligned pulley; 5) misaligned belt (the belt is not centering properly across all the pulleys; 6) lack of proper lubrication on the bearings (which eventually leads to bad bearings) and lastly: 7) incorrect type of belt (v-belt vs. flat-belt vs. toothed-belt) BELT APPEARS TO BE GOOD. 2003's should use a v-belt with multiple v-grooves on one side, and flat on the other. All the groves should match PERFECTLY with the pulleys that they travel across/have direct contact with.

Things to check are: 1) with the engine running, observe the entire belt travel from point A all the way around each pulley, and back to point A. It shouldn't "wander" across any pulleys, and the pulleys shouldn't look like they're wobbling. It also should have at least a 1/4" clearance from all engine parts/projections and should ONLY come in contact with the pulleys - you'll need to use a flashlight and be careful while checking since the engine is running.

2) Check the belt (with the engine off) for excessive wear, esp. around one edge or the other. NEW BELT ACCORDING TO PREVIOUS OWNER. IT APPEARS TO BE GOOD UPON INSPECTION

3) The idler pulley should be a free-spinning pulley. Take the belt off and verify it spins completely freely, has not "grittiness" to it's movement, and doesn't squeak when it's spun by hand. THESE ARE NEW AND ROTATE AS EXPECTED

4) the Generator, Power Steering, and crankshaft pulleys should NOT spin freely - nor should they have any wobble to them. The A/C Pulley should be able to be turned by hand (with the belt off) but shouldn't free spin too easily - when the A/C Clutch engages as you turn on the A/C, and that's when the pulley is mated to the A/C compressor to provide the mechanical power for the compressor to compress the freon. DO YOU HAVE A REFERENCE AS TO HOW MUCH TENSION SHOULD BE ON THE PSP AND GEN? THERE WAS SLIGHT RESISTANCE ON EACH AND THEY SEEMED SMOOTH, BUT I MAY BE MISSING SOMETHING.

5) If you see any rust on a pulley, esp. inside where the shaft connects it to the main body of whatever it's meant for, you probably have a lubrication/bearing issue. You should also be able to take a long ratchet extension, and CAREFULLY put it on the body of a pulley (not on the rotating part of the pulley!), and then put your ear against the other end lightly and "listen" while the engine is running. I put my ear against the female end of the extension to do this and use the male end against the body of the pulley. If a pulley has bad bearings that are squealing, you'll hear it "through" the extension (similar to using a water glass to "listen" to your neighbors through an apartment wall - not saying I've done that...). Again, be careful if you are doing this! If you have or can borrow a stethoscope, that's a much better option than putting your ear directly on the extension. I DO HAVE A SCOPE. I CANNOT EASILY REACH THE WP, BUT THE PSP AND GEN ARE EASY TO SAFELY REACH

 

[Black-Wolf]

DO YOU HAVE A REFERENCE AS TO HOW MUCH TENSION SHOULD BE ON THE PSP AND GEN? THERE WAS SLIGHT RESISTANCE ON EACH AND THEY SEEMED SMOOTH, BUT I MAY BE MISSING SOMETHING.

So, I don't have a reference but generally, it should be easy enough to turn, but they shouldn't spin freely - basically indicating that they are connected to the armature (in a Generator) or to the pump mechanics.

One way to know if it's the PSP is if when you turn the wheel while at idle, the noise of the power steering pump increases - usually indicating either a pump going bad, or low power steering fluid. If it's very hard to turn while at a stand still, but easier to turn while driving, indicates a bad pump period. You can check for voltage at the battery while the truck is idling and you should have at least 12.5 volts on the battery. If you have less than that, generator is not putting out enough voltage and is going/has gone bad.

Does the squeal get louder while revving the engine a little, or stay the same?

Also, is it coming from one side of the truck, or the other, and is it coming from the top or the bottom side of the engine?

One other thing that occurred to me just now: If your belt gets wet (water or oil) for any reason, it can cause squeal, but this normally goes away after a minute or so if it's water. Both can cause slipping of the belt on the pulleys, but unlike with water, oil doesn't evaporate so it stays on the belt for far longer and the squeal will stick around.

Take a look at your radiator fluid - does it look new? Thinking about this some more - it occurs to me that the squeal could be internal to the water pump. You can listen to it by finding a good flat spot near the pump - you don't have to be directly on it.

 

[Cerd]

So...I'm dumb. The new belt looked good, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to install the old belt. It is noticeably worn, but I figured it would be fine for a quick test.

Well, the noise went away. I do not have a belt length checker, but the difference must be so small that the 2 belts look the same.

The pulleys that I did change were definitely wearing based on the grittiness and play, so I am not sour about that. But I guess I will need to get a new Gates belt. Local parts stores do not carry the belt, so I will have to order from Rockauto. I will ONLY buy Gates brand since the MasterPro from Oreilly Auto has never served me well.

 

[MikeT]

This is an outstanding troubleshooting thread and should be tagged and saved.

Mike

 

[Black-Wolf]

So...I'm dumb. The new belt looked good, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to install the old belt. It is noticeably worn, but I figured it would be fine for a quick test.

Well, the noise went away. I do not have a belt length checker, but the difference must be so small that the 2 belts look the same.

The pulleys that I did change were definitely wearing based on the grittiness and play, so I am not sour about that. But I guess I will need to get a new Gates belt. Local parts stores do not carry the belt, so I will have to order from Rockauto. I will ONLY buy Gates brand since the MasterPro from Oreilly Auto has never served me well.

Since it's a new belt causing the noise, chances are you got some antifreeze or oil on it. You can use carb cleaner on it to clean it and the pulleys. Get some steel wool and lightly scrub the smooth pulleys, and use a stiff plastic bristle brush to clean the belt and the grooved pulleys. Let it all air dry (about 30 min) before reinstalling the belt. If the squeal still doesn't go away, then a new belt.

 

[Cerd]

Since it's a new belt causing the noise, chances are you got some antifreeze or oil on it. You can use carb cleaner on it to clean it and the pulleys. Get some steel wool and lightly scrub the smooth pulleys, and use a stiff plastic bristle brush to clean the belt and the grooved pulleys. Let it all air dry (about 30 min) before reinstalling the belt. If the squeal still doesn't go away, then a new belt.

So while the belt looked new at a glance, I spotted some tearing on the smooth side. It may be fine for a spare, but I ordered a belt to play it safe. Rockauto has the correct Gates belt and it was $15 cheaper than a generic at the local store.

I also mated the same belt that was squealing to an old pulley I took off. It does not look like it is a good mating surface, but I may as well get BW's opinion since there is so much good information. IMO, it seems like the ribs are too wide for the grooves - gapped at the top and bottom, while binding on the side of the ribs.

 

[Black-Wolf]

So while the belt looked new at a glance, I spotted some tearing on the smooth side. It may be fine for a spare, but I ordered a belt to play it safe. Rockauto has the correct Gates belt and it was $15 cheaper than a generic at the local store.

I also mated the same belt that was squealing to an old pulley I took off. It does not look like it is a good mating surface, but I may as well get BW's opinion since there is so much good information. IMO, it seems like the ribs are too wide for the grooves - gapped at the top and bottom, while binding on the side of the ribs.

It does look like that belt isn't quite a perfect match - but, overall, it is usable. What does the other belt look like?

 

[Cerd]

The new belt is the same PN as the worn one that doesn't squeal. The pulley photo doesn't look like much of an improvement, but the comparison photo shows a huge difference in rib width. Old squeaky is on the left and new on the right.

 

[Black-Wolf]

The new belt is the same PN as the worn one that doesn't squeal. The pulley photo doesn't look like much of an improvement, but the comparison photo shows a huge difference in rib width. Old squeaky is on the left and new on the right.

So looking at that - the new belt's grooves are way to tight/narrow for your pulleys. The belt would eventually either wear and the squeak would stop (but the belt might not stop squeaking until it was almost time to replace) or, on the flip side, they could get cut and cause premature belt failure. I have always had great results with the Gates FleetRunner series. They work well, and are Heavy Duty - but do cost a little bit more than regular duty belts.

 

[Cerd]

I did buy Gates, not the green FleetRunner, but the regular Gates. I have no idea what the other one was since the branding was worn off. Seeing as how it was from Oreilly, I would guess that it was MasterPro, but I have no idea what part number.

I think the ribs are more narrow, so they are not gripping the pulleys like they should.