What does a 170.000 mail truck look like?

[nlambert182]

I wonder who is setting up the infrastructure for the EV charging stations since they're a quasi-Gov agency? Someone like the Army Corp of Engineers? I know what they charge and it's flabbergasting. Find the highest bidder and multiply it X 3. You'll start getting close to their cost.

 

[Dan Topp]

I wonder who is setting up the infrastructure for the EV charging stations since they're a quasi-Gov agency? Someone like the Army Corp of Engineers? I know what they charge and it's flabbergasting. Find the highest bidder and multiply it X 3. You'll start getting close to their cost.

I have many questions too.Like if these strategically placed charging stations are like the Tesla supercharger or have outdoor rated switchgear or if all disconnects are in sight.But for the post office setups,gear chargers ect. those are given to the big contractors that are already maintaining streetlights,airports and power houses. Biggest gear I’ve done was a 8k grow lab in Illinois

 

[Squirrel1270]

What is irritating, several years ago

The United States Postal Service was sold to a private company.

Not only did the New Company pay a price that was considered low,
They were given all the Mail Trucks & believe the Post offices Buildings

Given that information, why the F is the US Gov't doing buying new trucks for a private company ????????

By the way, that Private company has lost money at a larger rate than the US Govt did when it was in charge

the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 into the U.S. Postal Service as an independent agency.

Are U.S. postal workers considered government employees?

USPS positions are not traditional federal jobs since the USPS is not a federal agency (it is considered a quasi-government agency). There are more than 30,000 USPS facilitate across the country, 500,000+ employees, and good benefits such as health insurance, good pay, and a pension plan.
The U.S. Postal Service, which has lost more than $100 billion since 2007, reported a net loss of $9.5 billion for its fiscal year ending Sept. 30, $3 billion more than last year, largely due to a year-over-year increase in non-cash workers' compensation expense.

=================================

I can't even remember the last time that i mailed anything !!

Somewhere i have a partial book of 3 cents stamps

Trump should expel them, make them truly private.

I know, sell them to the Pinkerton Agency

Follow the money... someone (or someones) in a position of authority is getting a pretty hefty kickback from this scheme. Nobody goes into politics today to do good. They all go into politics to get rich. Let's hope DOGE straightens all this mess out.

 

[Squirrel1270]

It’s so crazy they couldn’t even fulfill their billions of dollars to install charging stations,as a A card electrician I can imagine the amount of cable and inverters ect.then how the grid would respond to that kind of draw.480 v 3 ph.150kw.each.or 180 amps or a 200 amp drop for each one.

They never intended to actually build all those stations. They wanted the money, they needed to appease the tree huggers for the green votes, they threw a few crumbs out there in the way of a couple of charging stations and now they'll blame the Trump administration saying it's their fault nothing got built. There you go, Politics 101...

 

[Dan Topp]

If this kind of EV stuff is interesting see what your taxes are being used for by the EPAs clean school bus program,the E school busses made by Lion who is close to bankruptcy in Maine have stories to tell already.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Typically, no, you don't. There's operational costs, costs of all the non-manufacturing employees on the contract that also include program management, corporate G&A fees, etc... and then the actual cost to build each vehicle.

But as a taxpayer when there are tangible assets to be delivered, you could do the beer math to get an idea of what your tax dollars cost you per unit produced if the goal of the contract is to deliver X-X amount of units by X-X date.

Simply put, if the Gov put OshKosh on contract to build 3,000 trucks (or whatever the number is) and awarded them $10B, that $10B came from someone's tax dollars. The rest is applicable to companies, but is in the noise to tax payers.

Often times some of the management that run these contracts are well north of $200k a year before bonuses. There can be well over $10M a year in combined costs of just the non-manufacturing staff depending on the size of the company.

I've never worked a contract where there weren't at least 1/4 of the staff who are there because of nepotism and who don't contribute much to the cause other than to spend the hours. After all, on a lot of contracts, anything you leave on the table gets sent back to the FedGov. They don't want it back because then it goes to congress, the contracting Gov agency get a black eye, and next years budget gets smaller. Contractors want to spend it because they either get to bill all the hours (T&M) or get a fee on everything spent (Cost Plus).

Then, depending upon how many gov agencies it goes through, each take a percentage (a fee) for handling the money. Quite easy to turn a $60k truck into a $160k truck.

USPS doesn't get any tax money. They are required to be self sufficient and fund themselves via customer purchases.

Purchase orders are public record. No math needed.

Side note: the trucks delivered, most are ICE powered by a Ford 2.0 EB.

 

[nlambert182]

You say that... but considering the amount of money they're losing each year where do you think the money that they don't have is coming from? Hate to tell you... but USPS gets as much in the way of Gov assisted funding as most other Gov organizations.

Congress provided USPS a $10B emergency loan:

USPS, Treasury reach agreement on $10B coronavirus relief loan | Federal News Network

The agency reached an “agreement in principle” with Treasury and the USPS Board of Governors unanimously approved the agreement Tuesday.

federalnewsnetwork.com

passed a bill providing $25B in additional Gov funding:

House passes bill upping post office funding by $25B, blocking service changes • Michigan Advance

WASHINGTON — The U.S. House convened a rare weekend session Saturday in an attempt to stop the U.S. Postal Service from allegedly disrupting mail service to sabotage the November elections. The Democratic-led chamber passed a bill 257-150 that would infuse $25 billion into the agency as it...

michiganadvance.com

and has given USPS a $50B financial relief bill over the course of a decade.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-50-billion-postal-service-relief-bill-2022-03-08/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/04/15/biden-usps-amazon-aid/

 

[nlambert182]

I'll add some other times that the Gov has passed along funding to USPS.

"
For years the United States Postal Service has added the following statement to most of its news releases, “The Postal Service receives no tax dollars for operating expenses and relies on the sale of postage, products and services to fund its operations.”

Recently it has become increasingly evident that the self-financed federal agency might have to modify that claim.

Two actions make clear that the financially troubled USPS is having to turn to taxpayer resources to reduce its sea of red ink.

First, on April 9, President Joe Biden’s administration threw its support behind funneling more tax dollars to fund the agency’s new next generation mail delivery fleet.

Second, the Postal Service acknowledged on April 2 that it has accepted $8.64 billion of taxpayer funds to offset some of its losses during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Both steps seem to reflect the reality that the USPS cannot make it on its own without taxpayer support.

In an April 9 request to Congress, Biden sought $600 million for electric vehicles and charging infrastructure for 18 federal agencies.

The request specified that funds would be used by the General Services Administration “for other agencies and for United States Postal Service charging infrastructure.”"

Taxpayer funds come to the U.S. Postal Service’s rescue

The U.S. Postal Service acknowledged on April 2 that it has accepted $8.64 billion of taxpayer funds to offset some of its losses during the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.linns.com

"The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) just got more than $100 billion in taxpayer assistance through the Postal Service Reform Act. "

The U.S. Postal Service's Insatiable Appetite for Taxpayers Dollars

The U.S. Postal Service (USPS) just got more than $100 billion in taxpayer assistance through the Postal Service Reform Act. It is licking its chops for billions more as Congressional Democrats and th

www.realclearpolicy.com

 

[mikeru]

That's not how contracts work. Stop believing social media posts by idiots.

You don't divide product delivered to date by total contract cost to get cost per vehicle. Who imagined that's how it works...

Per unit price is a touch under $60k.

Only the gov't. would pay that much for something that looks like this...

USPS doesn't get any tax money.

Until they do, in the form of legislation like the Postal Service Reform Act.

 

[GTyankee]

What is CRAZY, is that back around the late 1950's
The Mail Persons that drive one of those Local Mail Trucks ..
Complained about the issues with the mail trucks having a Conventional Cab.

The nose of a conventional cab restricts maneuverability, etc.
That is why they changed over to the Cab Over Type of vehicle.

I knew a few of the Mailmen that got the the first series of the Cab Over trucks & they were ecstatic about how close they could get to a building or other vehicle when Parking

Look at that front bumper !!

It must be 1/2 or more full of water, with vent holes, so that water can escape in case of an accident

 

[Elkman]

The money would be better spent on F-35 aircraft that is currently indicated as costing taxpayers (not the elites that pay no taxes). The fighter bombers can kill men, women, and chilldren and provoke shock and awe. No such benefits from having the mail deliver packages.

 

[nlambert182]

The money would be better spent on F-35 aircraft that is currently indicated as costing taxpayers (not the elites that pay no taxes). The fighter bombers can kill men, women, and chilldren and provoke shock and awe. No such benefits from having the mail deliver packages.

Two totally different things. While I agree that we spent too much on the F-35, there isn't another fighter out there that can compete with it and it maintains our air superiority. Whether you agree with that concept or not, if we don't maintain it you won't be on this forum for very long because some other country will come in and claim it as theirs. Go ahead and kiss your freedom goodbye. It's not designed to kill men, women, and children but that's a nice spin. Sometimes there are casualties of war and regardless of where it happens, it is an unfortunate truth.

Like it or not, until some of these other countries stop deciding they want to take over the world (which will be never), those things are a necessity. Much more so than a ridiculously expensive mail truck. I've never seen a mail truck on the front lines defending our freedom. Half the time we're lucky if the driver even feels like delivering packages that day.

Before you go saying anything... we have quite the large lot of military service members here. I'm sure they'll vouch that you only hear maybe a 1/10th of what really goes on in the world in the news and you have no idea just how often we are under threats that they have to respond to to keep us safe. You're welcome, by the way.

So... If I have to choose between the two, I'd rather spend my tax dollars on our military than overpriced mail trucks.

 

[Atcer2018]

The money would be better spent on F-35 aircraft that is currently indicated as costing taxpayers (not the elites that pay no taxes). The fighter bombers can kill men, women, and chilldren and provoke shock and awe. No such benefits from having the mail deliver packages.

In addition to what nlambert182 said you may want to check out the plethora of tax organization websites on who pays the majority of federal income taxes.

 

[nlambert182]

The elite that many think don't pay taxes do two things: 1) They pay the overwhelming majority of taxes that the Gov receives and 2) they use every loophole to their benefit because the Gov created those loopholes specifically to benefit those in the Gov who want to use them. If it applies to one, it applies to all.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Things like these mail trucks will always be where our tax dollars really get sunk versus spending it where it needs to go. How they get you to be ok with it is by telling you that it's saving some thing that you care about. When they can get your emotions into it, all bets are off. You'll toss them your money.

 

[Dan Topp]

The elite that many think don't pay taxes do two things: 1) They pay the overwhelming majority of taxes that the Gov receives and 2) they use every loophole to their benefit because the Gov created those loopholes specifically to benefit those in the Gov who want to use them. If it applies to one, it applies to all.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Things like these mail trucks will always be where our tax dollars really get sunk versus spending it where it needs to go. How they get you to be ok with it is by telling you that it's saving some thing that you care about. When they can get your emotions into it, all bets are off. You'll toss them your money.

Discovery is the first step how many of us really have the time to look into crap like a paltry 5 billion the EPA has to fund the failing E school bus program. Possibly some could call senators and congressmen or local board meetings,anything is better than allowing them to bankrupt us all and go to their party’s and laugh about it.

 

[nlambert182]

Sadly most senators and congressmen are going to turn their heads too. Even if they go into it with honest intentions it takes almost no time to figure out that to stay in their position they have to play the same game. Unfortunate, but reality.

 

[GTyankee]

most Congress Persons & Senators will only know that the money that was allocated was spent.

They will have no idea that the money was spent on worthless mail trucks, unless someone in their Family shows them pix

 

[GTyankee]

Did you notice that they picked the Shortest mail man to
demonstrate putting the Mail into the Mail Box ?


I see the van has a AIR SEAT, like Semi Trucks have

The mirrors are not even set for someone his height

 

[tron67j]

Actually, the general mail delivery process is something EVs are well suited for. Repeated starts and stops to allow regenerative charging. Returns to central location every day for charging. Direct drive has less parts for wear and tear. As to the design, the low hood provides great visibility and the tall body allows the delivery person too ergonomically load mail and access it to replenish delivery items for each area delivered to during the day. A cab over design raised the body too high to be, again ergonomic, for persons reaching to open, insert, and close box.

Is it nice looking? I wouldn't buy one. Is it cost effective? Need to see how costs progress over the lifecycle. But the original cost per Grumman truck (box on wheels, no comforts what so ever, bought bulk) cost about $28k in today's dollars. One can buy the base Tradesman with A/C and other comforts for $38k with no volume discount. Not supporting current cost, just saying perspective is part of the equation and maybe a male and time makes it a value. At least our delivery people are going to be less subjected to such extreme conditions.

 

[GTyankee]

Being as it is Electric
There is no need for a conventional cab HOOD

Sure the main body of the Van has to be TALL, so the Mail Deliverers don't have to stand bent over.

My mailman is at least 6' tall
His route is mostly Apartment Buildings, he loads his Mail Bag & walks into a Apartment Building, usually to the Apartment Managers apartment, where there is a wall or bank of Mail Boxes



On the other hand, where there are single family homes
a Mail Person might not leave the Mail Vehicle, except to deliver a package.

At my Brothers & Sisters single family homes, they get a note in their Mail Boxes, they have to drive to the Post Office to receive packages