Brake Controller

[cc rider]

What Dannymk2 says is what I said several weeks ago. As far as the part about it being cheaper to ignore......currently, yes it is. But, i just cant see this problem not causing a serious accident where they will most likely have a huge lawsuit on their hands. You figure these trucks/controllers are new and people for the most part havent really had much time using the controller. So this is a ticking time bomb. This obviously affects the people that dont know about the issue and think they have working brakes cause they "somewhat work". Now, i dont know the figures on how many of these controllers were sold and if it affects the 16's (cant remember what conclusion we came to here). But all its going to take is one incident with a 25k truck and trailer going through a intersection cause someone cut them off. It already somewhat happened to boss and i also had a time where i had to stop my 5er quickly and had trouble. Fortunately, we are all alive.
As far as the nhtsa, that is a joke. i also filed a complaint and it was advised that everone here do the same. You can see in the link, or just do a search for 15 rams and youll see, there are only a handful of complaints regarding this problem. Seems like the only way this issue will get resolved is legally. Anyone here an attorney ?

Search Results: 2015 RAM | Safercar | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

 

[DannyMK2]

it probably eventually will cause an accident. that's usually what it takes. GM knew about the faulty ignition switches for years. how many people died before anything happened? i think it was about 5?

its a sad world we live in where the accountants dictate whether a potential safety hazard gets corrected.

 

[BossHogg]

Yea, having someone from the dealership "take your truck and trailer to Chrysler" is a bit of a huge ask. Was it just vague like that or did they specify at all what that meant? I mean is a 18 year old porter going to drive your combo 5 states over or is a chrysler guy flying in ETC.

It was more specific. I live a stones through from Chrysler's world headquarters. The dealer they want me to go to is a dealer they work with when issues like this pop-up. I just wasn't comfortable demonstrating this issue to the body shop manager, who is the liaison to Chrysler, and turn over $150K worth of equipment to someone who has never towed.

If I can't be there to demonstrate and answer questions then assumption are made and the finger pointing will start all over again. It was a no win situation for me, if they had a true interest, they would have sent engineers to my house, at minimum, to the dealership to meet with me and see the issue first hand. The liability claim is *********, just an escape for them.

I've got 40 years in hardware/software engineering, the past 19 years in automotive. I've earned the right to speak with their engineering people directly, not through a third person that lacks technical expertise. This is how I feel and this is how they should have responded. I currently work for a Tier one supplier and often go to dealerships to look at issues so they can be root caused promptly. I'm retired GM and currently support Ford programs, these two automakers would not respond this way, I know this from first hand experiences. But again, an issue like this would not have made it into production.

I wonder if whats really going on is they are trying to confirm that 7 volts on your trailer results in little to no braking, because some engineer somewhere is going "no that's not right, it should still be braking strongly, we're not taking this "feature" out over one guys complaint until we confirm this" or something.

A quick call to Dexter would solve this question, heck, I even posted my axel tag for them. When I spoke with Dexter, it was made clear to me it is a 12 volt braking system and the amount of power needed for braking was dependent on the weight sitting on the axles, no surprise to us who tow. In my case, the two axles share a load of just under 11,000 pounds the last time I was at the scale. Likely more now that the wife has added a few necessities in the RV.

 

[riverss]

I have been following this for a while so i made a visit to the local Ram dealer ship and requested that the ITBM be checked and sure enough i was told "no codes and all is working " there were no faults found. when questioned what were the voltages i got a blank stair so i asked how was no problem found? how was it troubleshoot? i was told that they "hooked it up to a trailer and heard the magnets click so it was working". my voltages are in the values that you'll have and are not enough to stop my 11200# 5th wheel safely IMHO. The dealer is suppose to get back with me on my issue. Boy i can hardly wait.

 

[Totesmygoats]

Hey bosshogg, was trying to figure out if I should bother with an Oscope and went out to test my 2013, I just wired up one magnet and measured with a DMM and got 10 volts on light electric and 8 volts on heavy, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't think 1 magnet vs 4 would make a difference? If anything I would expect 4 magnets to cause the voltage to drop.

edit; actually saw a couple other people report similar readings, I wonder if I have the same coding on my 2013 as yours, but there is less droop from less load/resistance of one magnet. Did you ever try light electric and find it to give a higher voltage?

I just checked my output voltage. 8.1 volts at 100% heavy electric.

I measured mine at 9.3v on light electric and 7.4 on heavy electric. With the same trailer, I have to use 6.5 gain where my father's 2012 3500 is set on 3.5. I called the both my local dealer and dealer I purchased from and neither had heard of this issue despite one being "the largest dodge dealer in the world"

Ok i plugged in the camper to rear plug and did voltage test on fifth wheel plug in bed, with trailer brake at 100% and gain at 10 i got 9.15volts on light electric and 7.17 on heavy electric, lower voltage on heavy setting!

Help! Just traded my 14 Ram 1500 for a 15 3500 duelie, i hooked up to my camper the other day and the brakes barely work on the trailer, everything was fine with the old truck, both have factory controllers and were set to light electric, i tried the heavy electric option but no luck, i used a voltmeter on the trailer plug on the truck and it only showed 10.5 volts fully applied, does anyone know what the voltage should be on these controllers?

 

[BossHogg]

Hey bosshogg, was trying to figure out if I should bother with an Oscope and went out to test my 2013, I just wired up one magnet and measured with a DMM and got 10 volts on light electric and 8 volts on heavy, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't think 1 magnet vs 4 would make a difference? If anything I would expect 4 magnets to cause the voltage to drop.

The number of electromagnets should not change the voltage, but increase the current flow as additional electromagnets are added. I did all my measurements with engine running so I knew I had the same voltage level for all tests. If you see a significant voltage drop, it means the wire can not handle the current flow keeping in mind voltage drop, tenths of volts, is normal in DC circuits.

There seems to be confusion over what the heavy versus light electric settings do, I've read some fairly bizarre results regarding these settings. These settings are equivalent to the boost levels found on aftermarket controllers. Bigger brakes, like those found on higher weight rated axles, will get a power kick to get the brake shoes moving on initial braking.

Here is the graph comparing my 2015 to my 2013 RAM ITBMs, engine running with no vehicle travel speed. Even though the measurements are in percentages of the voltage, it indicates the 2013 ITBM can provide full power to the trailer brakes proportional to the brake input effort.



If you have an analog volt meter I would try measuring with it to see if you have any differences, also try a different DVM if possible. In my testing, I used a Fluke 289 meter for all my tests and also used a Harbor Freight $3 DVM which showed close results to the Fluke.

My 2013 RAM is the only 2013 I tested but I tested several 2015 ITBM and the results were close to being the same +- a volt on the brake line output.

 

[Totesmygoats]

The number of electromagnets should not change the voltage, but increase the current flow as additional electromagnets are added.

There seems to be confusion over what the heavy versus light electric settings do, I've read some fairly bizarre results regarding these settings. These settings are equivalent to the boost levels found on aftermarket controllers. Bigger brakes, like those found on higher weight rated axles, will get a power kick to get the brake shoes moving on initial braking.

Yea I was figuring more current more droop. As for light vs electric, doesn't really matter what it's supposed to be for or do, if it's doing something else, which clearly it is. Was just wondering if you had checked that since I never saw you mention any readings under light specifically being different.

I'm going to try a long enough pigtail and see if the voltage comes up when driving, that will answer if my cars coded like yours quicker then getting an oscope I think.

 

[Totesmygoats]

OK I checked mine while moving, higher speed = higher voltage. It started increasing right away though, I was under the impression it was a threshold and went from 7 to 11 volts at 30. vs like 8 at 10, 9 at 20 etc.

Anyway, will report on what my 2016 does when it comes in.

 

[riverss]

i received a phone call from the service manager of my dealer this morning and we had a long talk about our safety issue with heavy trailers. he suggested that i call Ram Customer assistance to get them involved in the chain of command.prior to that i e-mailed RCA and their response to me was take it to the dealer. I feel as though the local service mgr is going to try to work with me and we will proceed through the proper channels and try to add a bit more squeak to the wheel to see if Ram will fix the problem. I plan on a trip to Colorado and where i am going there is no way i am going with out fixing this problem. i want all of the brakes i can get. I take my truck in next week and we will start the ball rolling here. do not hold your breath!

 

[BossHogg]

i received a phone call from the service manager of my dealer this morning and we had a long talk about our safety issue with heavy trailers. he suggested that i call Ram Customer assistance to get them involved in the chain of command.prior to that i e-mailed RCA and their response to me was take it to the dealer. I feel as though the local service mgr is going to try to work with me and we will proceed through the proper channels and try to add a bit more squeak to the wheel to see if Ram will fix the problem. I plan on a trip to Colorado and where i am going there is no way i am going with out fixing this problem. i want all of the brakes i can get. I take my truck in next week and we will start the ball rolling here. do not hold your breath!

Keep us posted. I went that route but the "RAM cares" ends once the dealer writes down on the service/work order the famous, overly-used, and most of time incorrectly used phrase, working as designed.

Remember this post I made last year, this will give you an idea of just how stupid the dealer's technical support line, AKA STAR, can be;

 

[riverss]

I quoted that to the service manager to illustrate my point that this was not going to be a pat u on your back ,see ya situation. BTY
did any of you request a pow wow with your area Ram rep ?

 

[BossHogg]

I quoted that to the service manager to illustrate my point that this was not going to be a pat u on your back ,see ya situation. BTY
did any of you request a pow wow with your area Ram rep ?

I haven't but that is an idea I will explore. I had my truck in for service a few weeks ago and the ITBM was one of the items on my hit list. Of course, they say working as designed because the were no codes set but they didn't have any methods of testing the output of the brake controller. They asked me to bring the trailer in.

Really I ask, you want me to bring a 42 foot fifth wheel trailer here. Like most dealerships these days, they have cars parked everywhere including the drive lanes. Well the service writer said, semis come and go all day long. I looked at him and said, I'm not a truck driver and if I have to backup much we are in trouble. We both laughed. I'm going to take a day and bring the trailer in, I'm also going to let Erica know which day so if her side wants to see they can. Unless something changes with Chrysler's attitude, I will not leave the truck and trailer with them (post 563).

As far as no codes being set. This statement has some value but the technician has to realize the possibilities of the software not designed to catch all fail conditions and report out as a DTC.

 

[monteholic]

I had a thought about this (I know dangerous)
When installing an aftermarket controller and connecting it thru the ITBM, the trailer brakes work correct?

So if this is the case...is it the ITBM or could it be with the dash controller that it issue is with?

 

[Totesmygoats]

So if this is the case...is it the ITBM or could it be with the dash controller that it issue is with?

It's most certainly simply the coding, there is some module (other then the little panel in the dash) that handles it. brake input and setting are fed in, then the line of code says how much voltage to output. The OEM "brake controller" isn't much but a set of buttons and slider. All the logic occurs elsewhere, and the logic is the problem.

 

[Kwhite]

Keep us posted. I went that route but the "RAM cares" ends once the dealer writes down on the service/work order the famous, overly-used, and most of time incorrectly used phrase, working as designed.

Remember this post I made last year, this will give you an idea of just how stupid the dealer's technical support line, AKA STAR, can be;

I went that route but my dealer wrote down they recommend a after market controller, Ram customer care was very good, but wish they would have a fix for the factory one so i could use it instead

 

[cc rider]

LOL! I dont remember u saying that. (the dealer recommending an aftermarket controller). Did you ask at whos expense? I thought someone on here said they were going to be reimbursed if they did get one (was that you). I dont feel like going back to look. This thread is so long. You figure someone, dealer or manufacturer would eat the charge of a measly aftermarket controller by reimbursing you just to keep the customer happy/avoid negative publicity

I went that route but my dealer wrote down they recommend a after market controller, Ram customer care was very good, but wish they would have a fix for the factory one so i could use it instead

 

[monteholic]

I know this is a little off topic

if you have a 1500 that came without a factory brake controller, is the wiring for installing an aftermarket controller there?

 

[riverss]

cc rider,Kwhite,Totesmygoats,BossHogg,monteholic; guys my truck just spent the day with the local Ram service mgr and i want you all to know that it passed the "star"'Blower test' i can sleep good to night. I have to say that the local Ram dealer and service mgr know that there is a problem but their hands are tied by the protocols of the system. i have requested a one on one with the district rep and we will see what result will bring. i also have requested that Ram install an aftermarket controller ( p-3) at my expense and to be reimbursed or have the original function properly. i can not risk having an accident because of this issue. believe me the elephants in this parade have not come by yet.

 

[WalterG]

I know this is a little off topic

if you have a 1500 that came without a factory brake controller, is the wiring for installing an aftermarket controller there?

I know if my '10 that did not have the factory controller in it, the wiring for the controller was there to install the factory one.

I am sure that you can get adapters that will plug into the aftermarket ones and use the factory harness to control the brakes, so you shouldn't have an issue.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

I read the first 10 pages or so then started to skim, but does this issue only seem to arise on the Heavy Electric setting or does it do it on any setting? I haven't hooked up to my camper yet, but when pulling the skid steer all seemed to be OK.