2012 5.7 hemi trouble

[GoldDot]

If the oil was changed then most likely is a pcv issue. Short trips alone will jot sludge an engine. If your pcv was clogged you would also have oil leaking from your engine seals.

Use of E85 by mistake will also cause sludge and lube issues.

 

[12ramhemi]

12ramhemi I REALLY think there was an underlying issue with that mill already to cause this. I won't dispute that you did your oil changes as described. But to put it in perspective- my daily commute is about 6kms. That's about 4 miles? My F150 did this, my 13 Ram 1500 did this, and my 2500 is doing this. Yes- I warm it up a bit before going, but I have never seen a hint of oil issues in any of them. To see what you did after 26k, that's ridiculous. It seems to me the dealer stopped when they saw the sludge and didn't dig into the CAUSE of it and decided to sweep it under the rug since you did your own maintenance.

I think it's ******** but I can't offer any constructive advice. It just makes me wonder about all of the farmers out there doing their own maintenance since a trip to the city for something as stupid as an oil change makes no sense now running around without warranty.

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I agree with you. There has to be another issue or issues that caused this. IMO I would have to take motor to mechanic to try and diagnose issue. If we could find issue then hire a lawyer and fight it out. What would that take a year or two? I feel I am better off just spending the money to fix the truck.

Also IMO everyone not having the dealer change the oil has a high probability their warranty will not cover their motor.

 

[12ramhemi]

If the oil was changed then most likely is a pcv issue. Short trips alone will jot sludge an engine. If your pcv was clogged you would also have oil leaking from your engine seals.

The truck always started perfect, ran perfect never a stumble, cel or anything but perfect. The motor never leaked or burnt a drop of oil. Parked inside 99% of the time and never seen a drop of oil on concrete. Never even saw slight dust collecting around anything on motor when changing oil.

 

[12ramhemi]

On another note, I just talked with a business customer I have. Long story short he bought a Jeep with 21,000 mi used from a lot. About 2 month ago at 54,000 mi. the motor blew. I do not know what motor or cause of failure. He has always had a private chain change his oil and has records.

He was denied warranty repair because of no maintenance record for the first 21,000 mi. It cost him $6,000 for new motor.

Take it or leave it those are the facts as I know them.

 

[raven3]

Has the pan and valve covers been removed?
What was the extent of the dealee tear down?
Does the oil look chocolate brown?
Does the oil look black?
Your data,
4 OC since new
First @ 3k miles, factory fill PYB
2nd, 3rd,4th @ 6 k OCI with 5w20 M1
Current milage = 26594
So 26594 -(3k + 3x 6k)=5,594 miles on current oil
In my opinion 6k is too long an OCI for severe duty usage,as explained with 25 miles/ two week intervals.

put ~ 150 miles day on my 5.7 RAM, about 95% Highway with oil temperature at 213F.
Use PP, which is cleaner than M1 by 8%, dealer wants OCI at 5k for this engine.

These newer engines require cleaner oil than in the past, with smaller oil passages, smaller bearing tolerances,
It is possible that the oil filter relief valve could have stuck open, allowing the oil to bypass the filter media and build up free carbon in the oil.
The synthetic oils will run for longer periods because of less shear film damage due to refined molecular structure compared to group 2 conventional oil.
However, the synthetic oils still become contaminated with carbon, the same as conventional oil.
The challenge that oil filter folks have is to design an oil filter that will go the extended OCI of synthetics.
Fram Ultra XG series made for full synthetic oil uses a two layer media to trap carbon.
The spin on filter measures a whooping 3" dia x 3" length. The size of this filter is about 1/6 of volume if all other V8 I have had and still have.
The Fram PH8 was the standard size filter that fit most V8s and is huge compared to the 4th generation 5.7 Hemi V8.
The relief valve opens, maybe, in cold weather start up or after the filter media is fully saturated with carbon.
The cheap relief valve in the oil filter replaces the internal relief valve found in GM engines.
GM/Delco oil filters do not have relief valves.
The relief valves in oil filters are supposed to open at 8-10 psig.
After doing a whole bunch of research on current oil filters, some as designed for only conventional motor oil
Some are designed for both conventional and synthetic, while others are designed for only synthetic.
The two major differences in the design of oil filters.
One type incorporates the relief valve in the dome while the other type uses a thread end relief valve which is more expensive to manufacturer.
There are many types of filter media ranging from wood fiber to mico fiber synthetic glass.
The consumer does not know what the filter media is used, unless described on the packaging.
Short trips will produce more carbon/ mile, since engine had not reached steady operating temperature, where the combustion process is less efficient and produces more unburned fuel.
The recommended Morpar oil filter is made by Purulator which incorporates the threaded end type relief valve.
Most spin on type oil filters with relief valves are the dome end style, since it is less expensive.

Bottom line
Believe the NAPA oil filter failed with relief valve stuck open and as a result failed to trap the extra carbon produced from the short trips.
The Royal Purple and Fram ultra oil filters are really good filters for the 5.7 Hemi.

Oil filters are a non regulated industry as opposed to the oil industry.
Something needs to done to help consumers be able to select and compare the particle removal rating and reliability of different brands.

 

[raven3]

In addition to my previous post, the oil filter used by the OP was a Napa brand, based on the OP statement.
Napa has three different series of oil filters.
Silver, Gold, Platinum

Silver incorporates a combination anti back drain valve and bypass relief valve , located at the threaded end.
The filter media is to be used with conventional oil, only.

Gold incorporates a separate silicone red rubber anti back drain valve flapper
and a separate bypass relief valve located at the threaded end.
The filter media is glass enhanced cellulose.

Platinum incorporates a separate silicone red rubber anti back drain valve flapper with a dome end bypass relief valve.
The filter media is synthetic for synthetic oil.

The dome end style of relief valve is more reliable than the threaded end style.
To make the threaded end style as reliable as the dome end style, the cost of the bypass valve
increases 3x over the price of the dome end bypass valve.

The advantage of the threaded end bypass valves is any sludge that collects in the
filter canister is not entrained back into the engine , when the bypass valve opens, usually upon start up conditions.
Entrainment of the sludge into the bypass flow stream is more prevalent with the dome style bypass valve,
especially with a vertical mounted oil filter, as is the case with the 5.7 Hemi.

If the OP used a cheap Napa Silver or Gold series oil filter with the more unreliable type bypass valve located at threaded end, there is a high probability chance that the bypass mechanism jammed in an open or partially opened position causing the oil to bypass the filter media.
The free carbon particles formed during combustion and then mixing with the oil film on the cylinder walls was not traped by the filter media.
The excessive carbon particles formed the sludge. Some of carbon particles could even be one free molecule of carbon are not ever traped by the best of filter media and become entrained in the oil changing the color from Amber to dark brown color.

This analysis of the root cause of the engine sludge failure is only a theory, yet to be actually proven.