4 hours and $900 CAD to change spark plugs?

[greg mayrhofer]

I had an engine warning light come on for a Cyl 1 misfire on my 2021 Ram E torque Big Horn. Because I have about 60,000km on it, I decided to bring to a Dodge dealer, hoping the issue was under warranty. The shop decided to change out all 6 spark plugs, hoping that was the fix, charging me 4 hours labor $540CAD, plus parts $228 for $770 plus tax. They stated that the spark plug change out fell under 'wear and tear' on the truck and not covered. I have been driving for a week after the fix and same issue, engine warning light, vibrating again when over 4000 rpm. My questions are, how long should it take to change the 6 spark plugs on this truck, 4 hours? And should changing out spark plugs on a 2 year old truck with 60,000km fall under 'wear and tear'? Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Tominator223]

This is called a misdiagnoses. By dealer as is was not the fix/problem. As for time ,they used to charge what the book says for time. Even if a tech can do it in half the time or less . Chilton was the book they used to go by. I still have a couple labor/time books somewhere . That’s one way dealers make $$$$. Like the column comment. It probably only took the tech a hr or 2. Not 6

 

[greg mayrhofer]

I agree with was said above,that the misfire was not completely trouble shot,coil swap wasn't done, nor road test clearing the code ? I changed my own plugs in two hours, all 16 at about 220.00 labor was your main expense, and to me a misfire on a cyl is not normal wear and tear, even if was a plug failure at your milage

 

[Marshall]

The MOTOR rate to replace 6 spark plugs on that vehicle is 1.9 hours. So if the labor charge you state you paid is broken out by operation and they charged more than 1.9 hours, you need to find out where they're getting their flat rate data from and verify they didn't overcharge you. I highly doubt that a 2021 model year vehicle with the equivalent of less than 40,000 miles needed spark plugs. Per the owner's manual it's not due until 160,000KM or 100,000MI. In Michigan you are entitled to the return of any parts replaced that don't have a core charge on them as they are your property. It would have been useful to get a look at the condition of the plugs.

In short, this sounds extremely fishy to me. Time to get on the horn with the service manager for starters, and escalate to the zone rep if necessary.

The first reasonable answer, why the hell are you complaining about the hrs when they did not fix the problem. That is the big problem. Take it back and have then fix it, you already paid them.
I don't know what the rate is at my dealer, it just changed hands, had the oil done and a check over , it costs, and that is OK, and I can't do it myself anymore . Still have the tools.
Had wife honda in a small shop for oil leak, $90.oo/ hr Ca shop work and fixed, they are a use car dealer that has been around for 50+ yrs . good service tecs.
Honda pissed me off as they charged me a 135/hr ( or was it 150?) rate to load test their Honda battery still covered with warranty. ($38.00) It cost them a sale on new Honda CRV.
BTW this is small city, down south you guys would call it a town ,maybe 12K I thinks that makes a difference. Maybe not.

 

[MB6466]

I have a ‘12 Ram with the 5.7, so this most likely won’t apply to you, but I ran into the same problem. It might give you a path to explore. My code reader showed a misfire in the #8 cylinder. First thing I did was change the coil pack. Didn’t fix the problem. I next changed all 16 plugs, which was a huge pain, but there was no way I could afford to have the dealer do it. Still didn’t fix the problem. I finally threw up my hands and took it to a small independent shop. It turns out my fuel pump was going out. The #8 cylinder was the farthest from the fuel pump in the injection chain (at least that’s what they told me) so it showed a misfire. As soon as they changed the fuel pump, the problem disappeared. Ran like a champ after that. The pump replacement cost me $750, but I felt pretty lucky to get it fixed for that much…

 

[GeoffG68]

BTW this is small city, down south you guys would call it a town ,maybe 12K I thinks that makes a difference. Maybe not.

Heck, that's a "village" or a "berg", one step up from "wide spot in the road!"

 

[rosco11]

I had an engine warning light come on for a Cyl 1 misfire on my 2021 Ram E torque Big Horn. Because I have about 60,000km on it, I decided to bring to a Dodge dealer, hoping the issue was under warranty. The shop decided to change out all 6 spark plugs, hoping that was the fix, charging me 4 hours labor $540CAD, plus parts $228 for $770 plus tax. They stated that the spark plug change out fell under 'wear and tear' on the truck and not covered. I have been driving for a week after the fix and same issue, engine warning light, vibrating again when over 4000 rpm. My questions are, how long should it take to change the 6 spark plugs on this truck, 4 hours? And should changing out spark plugs on a 2 year old truck with 60,000km fall under 'wear and tear'? Thanks in advance for any advice.

Rofl, there are no mechanics anymore. Just code reading part swappers. Why something happened? Not a damn one of them can tell you. Many do not even understand what the parts they are swapping actually do, much less how they work.

Then you have "the book". It may only take about an hour to change the plugs. But you have to look at "the book" and add up the time it takes to read the code. Then add in the time "the book" says it takes to open the hood. Then removing the plastic covers to get to the motor,....etc. Rounded out to the nearest hour for each operation.

Sadly, you will encounter "the book" no matter where you go. And the bigger the operation, the more overhead they have to factor into their hourly charges.

Misfire? Replace plugs. That doesnt work? Replace the wires. That doesnt work, replace the coils. that doesnt work? test the computer. That doesnt work? do a compression check to test for mechanical failure like a valve or something. That doesnt work? replace the engine..................Then someone finds the chaffed coil wire that burned through on the harness while the engine was out. After you ponied up several thousand dollars just getting to the point you paid for an engine replacement.

On the bright side, the factory is not going to make stuff up. They will tell you what "the book" says they need to do and charge you accordingly. Some places will flat out rob you. By rob, i mean to say they know it is not necesary and just want extra money. And by the factory not robbing you, i mean to say they just do not know wat is wrong, may not even understand how an engine works, and are just doing what "the book" says to do for dealing with a code.

You have 2 choices. Push through the learning curve and do those repairs yourself, or pay. A 3 year bumper to bumper warantee does not cover wear and tear items. Like pistons, piston rings, engine bearings, injectors, spark plugs, brake pads, transmission clutches, wheel bearings, pretty much everything that moves. It does not cover poor maintanence, not changing your oil will void all of it. It only covers you for manufacturer defects in materials. It was written by lawyers to keep the car manufacturer from paying out money but still let them sell people "security" for their massive expendature. Welcome to car ownership. Choose wisely

BTW, i know a lot of truck owners do not like electric cars. But electric cars do not have transmissions, engines, exhaust systems, emission systems, and yes, no spark plugs. Ford makes an awsome electric truck.....And it is cheaper than a fully equiped f150.

 

[Cruzrs]

I have a 2016 Ram 3.6 V6 Pentastar that involves removing the intake plenum to access the coils and plugs, this is why I'll be replacing them myself. But that's my choice.

 

[Dbrewton]

Problems like this are why I still haven't bought a new truck. My '05 Ram is easy enough to fix myself. I will keep it as long as possible. My 2011 Liberty shorts outcoil packs when top of motor gets soaked, but the code reader tells me the problem. I keep 4 spares in back just in case. Simple enough to replace.

 

[DaveSharp]

I'd say you got gouged or a dummy fixed it. Spark Plugs are 2.7 hours without refrigerant r/r plus diagnostics. Misfires are simple to see on the scan tool and scope. If there was a preexisting bulletin they have some questions that need answering. Find out if you vehicle qualified and secondly had it been done previously. Never mind that they didn't fix the problem. The problem can be diagnosed with a combination of scanner, scope, observation, knowledge. Secondly they have to get permission to make these changes unless you preauthorized the fix. Thirdly before fixing they have to offer a quote. Fourth, they are to save the old parts and ANYONE who gets a vehicle fixed under retail at a dealer had better get used to making sure he asks for these things. They are covered by law or by business practices and you have rights here. Just for grins, the tech has to right down what the fault was, how he found it, (diagnosis) and how he fixed it and how he proved the fix, IE test drive or meeting the criteria of the code set in your case a misfire which is covered under dealer diagnostic manual/service material.
You didn't say what the code was, P0300 P0301, etc, any other codes? Need them to even start to help. Chances was it was a multiple cylinder misfire which is why it is so rough but those spark plugs can EASILY go 100k and they should have kept them and returned them to you along with a diagnostic report. Then there is something like this.
YMMS: 2021 RAM 1500 Limited
Aug 14, 2023
Engine: 3.6L Eng License:
VIN: Odometer:
3.6L PENTASTAR UPGRADE SPARK PLUG INTERNAL CRACK
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Number(s): 09-013-20 REV. A, Date of Issue: December 12, 2020
CHRYSLER:
2020 - **2021** (RU) Chrysler Pacifica; 2020 - 2021 (WD) Dodge Durango; 2020 - 2021 (WK) Jeep Grand Cherokee; 2021 (JL) Jeep Wrangler; 2021 (JT) Jeep Gladiator; 2021 (DT) RAM 1500 Pickup
GROUP:
09 - Engine
Superceded Bulletin(s): 09-013-20, Date of Issue: December 05, 2020


Customers may experience a Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) illumination. Upon further investigation, a technician may find one or more of the following Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) have been set:

P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire.
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire.
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire.
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire.
P0305 - Cylinder 5 Misfire.
P0306 - Cylinder 6 Misfire.

Customers may also comment on the following:

Rough running engine.
Which is why they need to do proper paper work. If your truck qualified they should have done this under goodwill since there was an outstanding bulletin and so close to mileage. Any rate better take it back and make them fix it, they have your money, documented the job and the symptoms and faults are still there and they should fix it under repair warranty since they've already been paid. The way I see it.

 

[amp1956]

And don't forget our wonderful HST. In Ontario, it's 13%. I believe that it's 12% in BC.

Most importantly, the fault hasn't been repaired. As Dean mentioned, I'd politely and firmly request a refund on the labour, at minimum with a reduced charge on the plugs.

If they want to play hardball, I'd call my cc company and demand they reject the charge because the work was not completed, and the fault remains.

And, looking for a new dealership. The parts canon method is even more pathetic when professionals use that methodology.
.

 

[amp1956]

well it is a pain to change plugs on a hemi but that miss coming back is not good they are just guessing it was plugs vacuum leaks will do the same thing also you should be able to pull codes

 

[Dusty]

Thanks for the reply Dean. I told them what my code reader stated the issue was and they confirmed same issue. The dealership told me that the first troubleshoot fix is to replace all spark plugs, quoted the price and stating "wear and tear is not covered". I was in a rush to get my truck back and not knowing any better, I gave the green light to fix. After getting truck back and still having same issue, I have had time to think about 4 hours being waaaay too long to replace plugs. So now I am asking questions, doing the homework......maybe too late for a break on that price though but was looking for conversation ammo that I intend to have with the service manager re: 4 hours.....

Let's cover this one-by-one:

The service manual never states to replace ALL spark plugs for a single misfire code. If, and I repeat IF, there was a P0300 random misfire it is possible that it could be caused by more than one defective spark plug. But even at that, when you get successive misfires on one cylinder, the diagnostic should start with a new plug for that cylinder only.

In my opinion this was a pure 'shotgun' repair or an intentional up charge.

As for the labor rate, I do not have a labor rate listed for replacing six spark plugs on a PentaStar motor. But, gapping and installation of eight spark plugs on a 5.7 (dependent on factory optional equipment) is around 2.3 hours. The current average labor rate for dealers and independent repair facilities in Rochester, NY, is $110 per hour. The current retail price of Mopar plugs for a 5.7 is $22US each.

I would say you are dealing with an untalented and potentially disreputable dealer.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 96271 miles.

 

[Jim BB]

I had an engine warning light come on for a Cyl 1 misfire on my 2021 Ram E torque Big Horn. Because I have about 60,000km on it, I decided to bring to a Dodge dealer, hoping the issue was under warranty. The shop decided to change out all 6 spark plugs, hoping that was the fix, charging me 4 hours labor $540CAD, plus parts $228 for $770 plus tax. They stated that the spark plug change out fell under 'wear and tear' on the truck and not covered. I have been driving for a week after the fix and same issue, engine warning light, vibrating again when over 4000 rpm. My questions are, how long should it take to change the 6 spark plugs on this truck, 4 hours? And should changing out spark plugs on a 2 year old truck with 60,000km fall under 'wear and tear'? Thanks in advance for any advice.

I see you are in Burlington Ont Ca ! what dealer did you go to !?according to my 2019 ram 1500 classic 5.7 owners manual 160,KM and that is really absorbent amount even for a dealer !

 

[demonram]

If that is the pentastar V6, I believe they have to remove head to get to the plugs.

I was wondering why the labor took 4 hours on a 6 cylinder. Not familiar with the pentastar engine at all, but if it requires taking the head off to change them, that would explain it. I know dealers have a book with everything broken down as to how many hours each thing requires, even if it takes 15 minutes to do it, and the book calls for 4 hours, you're gonna get charged for 4 hours labor. Is there a cam/lifter issue with the pentastar? That would be more along the lines of what could cause the misfire. One other thing, does the pentastar use coil packs? If so, the first thing they should have done was check to see if there was a bad coil pack. Sounds like they steered you to changing the plugs due to the higher price for the job.

 

[turbo2000]

You believe incorrectly. They are actually quite easy to change, remove air box from throttle body, remove intake manifold, remove coils, take out plugs. Anyone that knows what they are doing should be able to do that in about an hour, maybe an hour and a half all in.

I would like to see you do all 16 plugs in an hour and a half! I‘m a retired tech and to do the job correctly from opening to closing the hood takes me 2 1/2 -3 hours to complete….

 

[imcoldhere]

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[16MaxSteelOutdoorsman]

Thanks for the reply Burla. Does 4 hours labor to change 6 plugs on this type of truck make sense?

I changed 16 plugs in mine (Hemi) which required taking out the air intake box and me taking my time, took me 3.5 hours, I am not sure what has to be removed to get to all 6 plugs, but even on a front drive 3.6 where you have to take the upper intake manifold off to get the back three doesn't take that long.

 

[Shawn Burns]

I run fuel system cleaner through my vehicles just before every oil change. With the crap gas we now have, it is surprising how often misfires are caused by injector or fuel systems getting crudded up. Any misfire, gas system cleaner would be the first thing I would try.

I do the same. Redline fuel injector cleaner every 5k miles.

 

[RamDiver]

I would like to see you do all 16 plugs in an hour and a half! I‘m a retired tech and to do the job correctly from opening to closing the hood takes me 2 1/2 -3 hours to complete….

You obviously have a reading compression difficulty. Read the post again. Dean was clearly making reference to changing 6 plugs on a Penstar V6, the same as the OP and the topic of discussion.

4 hours and $900 CAD to change spark plugs?

I had an engine warning light come on for a Cyl 1 misfire on my 2021 Ram E torque Big Horn. Because I have about 60,000km on it, I decided to bring to a Dodge dealer, hoping the issue was under warranty. The shop decided to change out all 6 spark plugs, hoping that was the fix, charging me 4...

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