5th Gen 1500 Transmission swap in a 4th Gen 1500

[knightjp]

After water got into the transmission, I've been living with the shudder for a while now and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, but its not getting better either. The truck has currently done over 300,000kms.
The mechanic suggests a rebuild for 2200USD.
At a scrap yard, I saw a rolled over 2019 5th Gen 1500 and thought maybe getting that swapped in. I heard ZF fixed some of the issues with the previous model used in the 4th Gen and thought that would be better.
Would a 5th Gen transmission fit into my 4th Gen without any modifications.

 

[BenWade]

I'd like to know this as well. The 4th gen has the 8hp70 and the 5th gen is the 8hp75. The 70 and 75 refer to the torque (700ft/lbs v 750ft/lbs). I don't recall hearing about shudder in the 5th gens so maybe they did correct the issue??

 

[Rlaf75]

For $h!ts and giggles give this additive a try. I've used this before on other vehicles ive had and believe it or not it does help with the shuddering. I told my buddy about it and he bought it and it greatly improved the shudder in his Chevy. For $10/15. it may be worth a try. Good luck

 

[Wild one]

After water got into the transmission, I've been living with the shudder for a while now and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, but its not getting better either. The truck has currently done over 300,000kms.
The mechanic suggests a rebuild for 2200USD.
At a scrap yard, I saw a rolled over 2019 5th Gen 1500 and thought maybe getting that swapped in. I heard ZF fixed some of the issues with the previous model used in the 4th Gen and thought that would be better.
Would a 5th Gen transmission fit into my 4th Gen without any modifications.

The 75 seems to be more difficult to program when installed in a 4th Gen.Hunt up Russell at Sound German and pick his brain about the swap.
His phone number is listed on this page

Sound German Automotive

 

[Wild one]

I'd like to know this as well. The 4th gen has the 8hp70 and the 5th gen is the 8hp75. The 70 and 75 refer to the torque (700ft/lbs v 750ft/lbs). I don't recall hearing about shudder in the 5th gens so maybe they did correct the issue??

The 8 speeds are rated in Newton Meters not LB Ft. They're rated at 700nm which is 516 lb-ft,and 750nm which is 563 lb-ft.The only 8 speed rated at 700lb-ft is the 8HP95 in the Trackhawks/TRX's 950nm= 700lb-ft

 

[knightjp]

I'd like to know this as well. The 4th gen has the 8hp70 and the 5th gen is the 8hp75. The 70 and 75 refer to the torque (700ft/lbs v 750ft/lbs). I don't recall hearing about shudder in the 5th gens so maybe they did correct the issue??

Honestly I don't think that it is an issue. There wasn't a shudder until the TMU failed and caused water to go in and mix with the gear oil. As a result the shudder started.
I tried the Lubegard and it did manage to make it a little bit better, but the only way forward right now is a rebuild.
I heard that the with the TMU on the 5th Gen transmission, they managed to address that problem and even give the transmission better cooling.

 

[Sherman Bird]

After water got into the transmission, I've been living with the shudder for a while now and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, but its not getting better either. The truck has currently done over 300,000kms.
The mechanic suggests a rebuild for 2200USD.
At a scrap yard, I saw a rolled over 2019 5th Gen 1500 and thought maybe getting that swapped in. I heard ZF fixed some of the issues with the previous model used in the 4th Gen and thought that would be better.
Would a 5th Gen transmission fit into my 4th Gen without any modifications.

Water in an automatic transmission is fatal.... always. It's an issue of when, not if. As far as retrofitting a different generation of trans into the truck, I wonder if that is truly a long term fix.

 

[Wild one]

After water got into the transmission, I've been living with the shudder for a while now and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, but its not getting better either. The truck has currently done over 300,000kms.
The mechanic suggests a rebuild for 2200USD.
At a scrap yard, I saw a rolled over 2019 5th Gen 1500 and thought maybe getting that swapped in. I heard ZF fixed some of the issues with the previous model used in the 4th Gen and thought that would be better.
Would a 5th Gen transmission fit into my 4th Gen without any modifications.

Usually you don't a transmission from a rollover especially if it was running when it fell on it's roof,everything in the pan runs into the transmission.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Usually you don't a transmission from a rollover especially if it was running when it fell on it's roof,everything in the pan runs into the transmission.

Isn't a rollover considered an "auto psy" Heh Heh!

 

[knightjp]

Usually you don't a transmission from a rollover especially if it was running when it fell on it's roof,everything in the pan runs into the transmission.

Isn't there a magnet for that stuff?

 

[Wild one]

Isn't there a magnet for that stuff?

It's the crap in the bottom of the pan you need to worry about,plus the fact if it was running when it went over,the pump will have ran dry.You're truck/your call, but the couple of used transmissions i've bought from roll overs always ended up with issues. But before you go that far,spend the money on the long distance phone call to Russell at Sound German and pick his brain,as i don't think very many guys have had good luck with the 8HP75 swap "yet",that might have changed and i missed it,but i know there used to be some programming issues

 

[1SLwLS1]

Unless you're pushing the limits of the 8HP70, instead of a rebuild, I would grab a used 8HP70 from LKQ online. You or your mechanic would pull the TCM from your shuddering transmission and put that in the unit received from LKQ, then simply R&I the transmission. There should be a relearn/quick-learn procedure in Alfa to update all of the parameters in your TCM to the condition of the internals in the LKQ unit.

If you are set on swapping to the 8HP75, I don't know what all would be involved but I can tell you the torque converter is different. I was accidentally shipped a converter for the 8HP75 when I was swapping my 65RFE to the 8HP70 and it would not fit/work.

 

[goatmann]

Question:
Why would the OP not drain and refill the Tranny fluid a few times?

 

[knightjp]

Question:
Why would the OP not drain and refill the Tranny fluid a few times?

Did it about 6 times and used an lubegard anti-shudder additive for good measure as well. The shudder didn't go away, but it didn't get worse either.
My mechanic said that he did this for a Range Rover and about the 6th time, it worked. Transmission was smooth again. However this didn't work for me. So I have to do a rebuild or get a transmission from a salvage yard.
I don't live in the US, so getting a transmission from a place like Jasper or something, would be killer in shipping costs.

 

[Wild one]

Did it about 6 times and used an lubegard anti-shudder additive for good measure as well. The shudder didn't go away, but it didn't get worse either.
My mechanic said that he did this for a Range Rover and about the 6th time, it worked. Transmission was smooth again. However this didn't work for me. So I have to do a rebuild or get a transmission from a salvage yard.
I don't live in the US, so getting a transmission from a place like Jasper or something, would be killer in shipping costs.

Did you spend the money on the phone call to Russell at Sound German to ask him about swapping a 75 into your truck.

 

[knightjp]

Did you spend the money on the phone call to Russell at Sound German to ask him about swapping a 75 into your truck.

I sent Russel an email and he replied.
His reply:

They are not the same. It will be easier and cheaper to just replace the transmission.
There are no issues with 8hp70s. There is nothing fundamentally better about the 8hp75.

I then asked him about my options of which would be better - rebuild or replacement from a salvage yard.

His reply:

I have no experience with that to suggest one way or the other.

According to my mechanic, the rebuild is the better way to go as the salvage unit comes with no guarantees. Whereas the rebuild comes with a 3 month guarantee.

 

[bubba5xx]

Trans line in radiator split and sent water into trans. Found out when shifting got bad and pulled dip stick to check fluid level. New tranny and radiator fixed it.

 

[Wild one]

Trans line in radiator split and sent water into trans. Found out when shifting got bad and pulled dip stick to check fluid level. New tranny and radiator fixed it.

On a Ram that won't happen,as the transmission cooler is in the top part of the A/C condensor,and doesn't go anywhere near the radiator.

 

[knightjp]

I thought of sourcing the valvebody, clutch plates and stuff for the rebuild online to make it cheaper. Finding my transmission parts just got a little bit harder now. I was always under the impression that there was just one 8 speed being used in the 4th Gen Ram 1500, turns out there are two.
On the Mopar website, it shows these two for the 2014 model year.
I put in my VIN number to try and find out, and its not showing. How do I find out which transmission is the on my truck?

 

[1SLwLS1]

V6s come with the 845.

If you’re trying to save money, my vote still goes for LKQ - they come with a warranty and you can purchase extended warranties.