Anyone HAPPY with Borg Warner 44-44 / Auto 4WD

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ColdCase

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Its a tool. I think it works fine in most of the real worlds, but not some common situations which is the real world for many using a truck. There are many happy with it.

Anyway, anything that requires wheel spin to work is not as good a tool as one that doesn't. Anything that requires clutches to engage the front even in 4 low is not as good a tool as one with splined locks. I have much experience on the road with both types of systems as well a 2WD and one can get by with an average tool in most situations. One can get by with a 2WD tool in almost as many real world situations, just with some skill and drama. The 44-44 is an average tool that serves many well, life is full of compromise.

Thats all some of us are saying, beside the fact its a bit misleading with a "lock" position.

I was also surprised how well the SRAs work in snow. The truck does spin the rears a bit before the front starts to catch (eases in) and the truck moves off.... most of the time :)
 

BigA

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The SRAs do surprisingly well in the snow. They just completely suck in the rain.

I agree, I had the same experience with them.
 
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Murphy Slaw

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What type of operating would cause the clutches to burn out?

Obviously not NORMAL operation, or with tens of thousands of these transfer case's ( hundreds of thousands, probably) we would be seeing pages and pages of threads about them failing.

We're not seeing that.
 

iam_canadian22

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Obviously not NORMAL operation, or with tens of thousands of these transfer case's ( hundreds of thousands, probably) we would be seeing pages and pages of threads about them failing.

We're not seeing that.
Actually very normal truck use in my area. Hunting, fishing, no mud bogging or crawling, ive got my sxs for that. Hauling trailer with bike around in couple inches of snow. I cut a load of fire wood one day and trailer sunk about an inch in the hard snow when loaded. Had to get it to rock to get it to come out. Not fwd rev rocking but tap of the gas and let go to roll back. 3-4 times it got out and over heated. If you go back far enough in this post you'll see i waited about 5 months for a replacement because they were so backed up on units.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

Ken226

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Given the clutch pack is rated for nearly 1700 ft lbs of continuous use torque, perhaps yours had prior damage or was a lemon.

When I say that my rear wheels slip a little before the front start pulling, I'm talking about around no more than about 90°.

If your rear wheels start actually spinning before the front does anything, there's something wrong.

Even a standard run of the mill geared case has that much. Its the nature of spur gears that in order to actually work, they have significant lash. With multiple spur gears involved, after engaging 4wd in a stardard transfer case, the rear wheels will need to advance in rotation relative to the front wheels somewhat before the spur gear lash is taken up.

The electromagnetic clutch and ball ramp works somewhat like a starter bendix, in that helical force (torque) is used to compress the clutch plates.

I've been completely through these transfer cases and very well understand it's inner workings. I'll add another post shortly to better describe it's inner workings. I'll need to take some time to arrange my words into a narrative that folks can visualize, as my last attempts didn't go so well.

Some ideas are difficult to convey in words.
 
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cbsmith

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The clutch can handle a lot of torque likenyoy said. The issue is the frequent engage and disengage cycles that cause it to heat up and then burn.

Any clutch, no matter how much power it can handle, will burn and start to fail if you let it slip long enough, whether it be in a transfer case engaging and disengaging frequently or a transmission clutch with the driver slipping it.
 

Hemi395

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Also if you take into consideration the 4.7:1 first gear of the 8 speed plus 410ft/lbs. Then you have the frequent engagements, it will burn that clutch up. The same thing would happen to a clutch inside a transmission if it were engaged and disengaged frequently under high load.
 

Ken226

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Also if you take into consideration the 4.7:1 first gear of the 8 speed plus 410ft/lbs. Then you have the frequent engagements, it will burn that clutch up. The same thing would happen to a clutch inside a transmission if it were engaged and disengaged frequently under high load.


That's exactly the parts that's difficult to describe/explain. The design doesn't allow slipping or engaging/disengaging. Not at all, let-alone frequently.

The clutch pack is rated for a continuous torque throughput of the Hemis peak torque output at the lowest range gear ratio. It's important to remember that engine torque is what forces the clutch plates together.

Also, there would rarely if ever be a circumstance where the wheels all have 100% traction AND the engine is at its peak torque output so as to actually put the clutch pack at it's highest rated torque throughput. To be at peak torque, the engine has to be at a specific rpm, at full throttle, and the wheels stationary.

Unless, I suppose, one floored the brake and throttle at the same time. That would certainly test the clutch packs torque rating. Only a fool would do that though.

I'm working on a good laymen's terminology description of the electromagnetic clutch/ballramp/torsion return spring assembly.
 

Ken226

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This is a drastic oversimplification, but try and visualise the inside of the transfer case as having 2 rotating plates facing each other separated by s tiny gap.

The front plate (we will call it the driven plate)is connected through the front driveshaft, to the front differential and front wheels.

The rear plate is connected to the transmission and rear wheels via the transmission output shaft (we will call the rear plate the drive plate).

Visualize the drive plate (rear plate) as bring on a splined shaft which allows it to slide fore/aft, just enough that it can can be forced forward along the splined shaft, and into contact with the front shaft.

For this explanation, it's necessary to visualize relative clock positions of the two plates (the plates clock positions relative to each other). Let's say that when driving in a strait line, on pavement, the rear wheels are turning and pushing the truck along the highway at x speed. The roadway is causing the front wheels to rotate at the same speed as the rear wheels, as such, the two plates are rotating at the same speed relative to each other. They are maintaining the same relative clock positions.

The ballramp/torsion spring assembly is basically a big, heavy duty ratchet. Like a recluse motorcycle clutch. Imagine it as being similar to a starter Bendix as well. Picture the drive plates shaft as having helical splines, Wich the drive plate rides on. Like a nut on a screw. When the shaft the drive plate rides on is turned, the torque applied to the shaft forces the drive plate tighter against the driven plate. The higher the force applied to the shaft, the higher the force the drive plate applies to the driven plate.

If the truck begins to turn, the front wheels begin to track around a larger radius than the rear wheels. This takes the pressure off the drive plate and allows the driven plate to turn faster than the drive plate. This could be viewed as "slip", but not the kind of slip that causes wear. It's more like the slip that a brake pad undergoes, when the brakes are-not in use.

When the rear wheels start to lose traction, this allows the drive plate and shaft to advance it's clock position relative to the driven plate, which, because of the drive plates helical splines, forces the drive plate against the driven plate and rotates the driven plate as well.

The torsion spring is the part that holds the drive plate and the driven plate apart.

The electromagnetic clutch , when energized, overcomes the strength of the torsion spring and forces the plates together.

So, in 2wd, the electromagnetic clutch is never activated and the drive/driven plates are never in contact.

In 4 auto, when the computer detects wheel slip, it energizes the electromagnetic clutch, it overcomes the force of the torsion spring forcing the plates together. When the plates are in contact with each other, the ball ramp (helical splined shaft) forces the plates together using whatever amount of torque the engine is producing. If you start to go around a turn, the driven shafts clock position advances relative to the drive shaft and the ball ramp releases, allowing the torsion spring to separate the plates. If your rear wheels slip while in the turn, the drive plates clock position advances relative to the driven plate, and the ball ramp mashes the plates back together. About 90ish degrees of advance in the drive plates clock position, relative to the driven plate, is required to force the plates together. When the computer senses no more slip, it deactivates the electromagnetic clutch, allowing the torsion spring to separate the plates.

It is important to note however, that the engines torque transmitted through the helically splined shaft and drive plate, greatly exceed the strength of the torsion spring. If under engine load, computer deenergization of the electromagnetic clutch will not cause the drive plate to release the driven plate.

In 4 lock, the electromagnetic clutch remains energized. The clutch plates remain in contact. Any time the driven plates clock position advances relative to the drive plate, such as while turning, the ball ramp (like a ratchet) allows the driven plate to advance it's clock position relative to the drive plate. Any time the drive plates shaft (helical splined shaft) attempts to advance it's clock position relative to the driven plate, it forces the plates tightly together.

In 4lock, while turning, the driven plate is advancing it's clock position relative to the drive plate, so technically, it is in fact slipping. But, it's slipping only a few degrees and only overcoming the applied force of the electromagnet clutch, which at 12volts10amps, is very small. The only force capable of any significant effect is the engine torque, via the helically splined shaft, forcing the plates together.

Now, all that said, it is a simplification for the purpose of easing explanation. There is no helically splined shaft. A big heavy duty assembly of balls and ramps takes the role of the helically splined shaft.

The 2 clutch plates are actually a couple dozen plates mounted in a big splined basket.

The clutch basket assembly is rated for about 1700 ft lbs of CONTINUOUS use, and for intermittent loads of much much more. Any slippage occurring as the driven plates advance clock position relative to the drive plates do-not occur under load.

Any time the drive plates attempt to advance clock position relative to the driven plates, there is significant load. The engines torque force the plates together. The more throttle you add, the more the torque, the more the force driving the plates together.

If your in 4 lock or 4 auto, and the transfer case clutch pack is allowing the rears to turn but not the front, then there is something severely wrong.
 
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LumberJakl

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I use AUTO-4 when I am in town when the roads transitions from snow/ice to bare streets. When I know I am in rough conditions, I leave it on 4-HIGH just to make sure to have the front wheels traction instantly instead of waiting for the system to recognize to activate them.
I do wonder in a long period of time when I put 37's as soon as I took it off the dealer lot and only having 16,000KM on my truck, if there will be high wear on the clutch's in the transfer case

Overall , I love it. It's knowing when to have 4-AUTO or 4-HIGH activated
 

Hemi395

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And this is why I change the fluid every fall. That way I'm flushing out any clutch material and I have fresh fluid for the winter.
 

Ken226

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My explanation of the 44-44 internal mechanics has a few edits, typo corrections and clarifications added since the last few posts. Does it make sense?

It isn't meant to be imply that I either love or hate the 44-44, just to illustrate how it works.

For many, when turning they can feel some drag/binding. This is likely caused by the force of the electromagnetic clutch holding the plates together. If the driver mashes the throttle while turning, in 4lock, the flex in the tires and the relative speeds of the outboard wheels will likely allow the ball ramp to engage and the driver may notice more significant binding.
 

chrisbh17

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I have a question, since you seem to have a good knowledge of how it all works: is there anything in the mix that could make a vibration only during acceleration worse when 4-Auto is engaged?

Fighting the dealer on my 2K RPM vibration, but Ive noticed it gets worse in 4-Auto. Proved it 100% today by actually switching into 4-Auto while the truck was driving at 2K RPM. You could feel the vibration level increase quite a bit, it's almost like something is rubbing.

Is it possible for something in the setup to be partially engaged (xfer case clutch, axle actuator) and/or not lining up correctly when going to and from 4WD?
 

Ken226

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It's likely not in the transfer case, probably something in the CV axles, or front drive axle. More than likely when you engage 4wd, axle splines engage and let's the front wheels start spinning the CV axles and front driveshaft with more authority. Maybe a CV axle or u joint going bad, out of balance or something.

Crawl under and start pushing, pulling, twisting parts and see if anything has more play than it should.

Drive to a parking lot and monitor the vibration while turning. Start with a slight turning angle and gradually increase the turning angle, see if it's better or worse at various angles.

Monitor the vibration at different speeds. In a strait line, and while turning.

A driveline u joind should vibrate about the same regardless of turning radius, but will change with speed.

A bad CV axle would likely vibrate differently at different turning angles. And increase with speed.
 
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chrisbh17

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Thanks. Thats what I was leaning towards even though the dealer doesnt want to bother actually looking at anything.

The only other wrench in the mix is that it happens in every gear but only around 2000 RPM under acceleration and stops by 2500 RPM or so. Does not happen in park or neutral, when just coasting or outside of that RPM range.
 

Ken226

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When a rotating part vibrates within an apparent speed range (above x rpm but below y rpm) it's usually only apparent at a specific speed, but actually present at all speeds.

For example, below a certain rpm the resonant frequency isn't fast enough to be felt/noticed, and above a certain rpm the frequency is fast enough that its individual oscillations are homogeneous.

Kinda how a really fast machine gun sounds like a buzzsaw. Your ear can't separate the individual shots.

The existence of the vibration tells you there's a problem, but it's specific rpm range doesn't tell you what the problem is.

I would look at the CV axles and universal joints. Those are the 4wd related parts that rotate all the time that the vehicle is moving, but are effected when 4wd is selected.



Does it occur in both 4lock and 4 auto, or just one of those settings?

Replacement CV axles can be had on eBay for just over 200.00. I would start there
 
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Ken226

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The apparent weak point is that once the clutch friction plates start to wear to the point of slipping, they will self destruct pretty quickly.

Given the ease of getting the clutch pack in/out, it would be of huge benefit to 44-44 owners if someone were to find a source for replacement clutch friction plates. I'm having no luck.

Anyone know someone at Borg Warner who can tell us if there are any other transfer case models that share the 44-44s clutch plates?

I can find tons of plates for the 44-04, 44-05 and various other. But nothing for the 44-44.
 

Hemi395

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The apparent weak point is that once the clutch friction plates start to wear to the point of slipping, they will self destruct pretty quickly.

Given the ease of getting the clutch pack in/out, it would be of huge benefit to 44-44 owners if someone were to find a source for replacement clutch friction plates. I'm having no luck.

Anyone know someone at Borg Warner who can tell us if there are any other transfer case models that share the 44-44s clutch plates?

I can find tons of plates for the 44-04, 44-05 and various other. But nothing for the 44-44.
I've contacted BW about their recommendation for fluid for the 44-44 and if there was something cheaper than the unicorn tear Mopar fluid. I never got a response. I have looked online for any info on the 44-44 and there isn't much out there other than on forums. It's like it's classified or something...
 

chrisbh17

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When a rotating part vibrates within an apparent speed range (above x rpm but below y rpm) it's usually only apparent at a specific speed, but actually present at all speeds.

For example, below a certain rpm the resonant frequency isn't fast enough to be felt/noticed, and above a certain rpm the frequency is fast enough that its individual oscillations are homogeneous.

Kinda how a really fast machine gun sounds like a buzzsaw. Your ear can't separate the individual shots.

The existence of the vibration tells you there's a problem, but it's specific rpm range doesn't tell you what the problem is.

I would look at the CV axles and universal joints. Those are the 4wd related parts that rotate all the time that the vehicle is moving, but are effected when 4wd is selected.



Does it occur in both 4lock and 4 auto, or just one of those settings?

Replacement CV axles can be had on eBay for just over 200.00. I would start there

Thanks for the reply!

It happens in any gear, in any drive mode (2WD, 4-Auto, 4-Lock), its just noticeably worse in any 4WD mode. Always from about 2000 RPM to about 2300 RPM. The speed ranges vary, of course, because each gear at 2000-2300 RPM is a different speed.

Keep in mind, this is a truck with 1700 miles on it. My dealer just took enough time to pull one off the lot that does "the exact same thing" and then called it normal. I did not get to try that one in 4-Auto because at the time I didn't realize mine is actually worse in any form of 4WD, but I did confirm it made at least a similar vibration in 2WD. FWIW the build date of that truck was 3 months after mine, both 2017 models with the 5.7, 8HP70 and 44-44 xfer case.
 
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