Audio Upgrade for 2015

[JRitz187]

I just did a rather similar endeavor, I have a 16 but basically ditched the whole Alpine system. I also have the DSR1, and got it when it first came out. Insanely buggy to be honest, they did a lot of patches to fix issues but still have massive fluctuation in the chimes and Nav prompts which is ear piercing and speaker blowing. The DSP and the app side are very very amazing though, even though Customer service is pretty good its a joint effort from IData and RF so finger pointing exists as they are responsible for different parts. This proved to be a great help for IData CS on the DSR integration http://www.12voltdata.com/viewforum.php?f=427

If I had to do it over again I would have run the PAC AR and used the DSR1 as a stand alone DSP and I think it would be flawless, also with the amount of ability to dial in the DSP youd be missing a lot if you kept the 3.5's on the same channel as the doors and capped then. I initially did the same thing but decided after the whole investment it was worth getting a small amp for the 3.5's so I could really fine tune and boy what a difference, an Alpine KTP 445U for like $135 and Kicker KS 3.5's for $60 made a very noticeable difference. Best of luck and let us know how the DSR works out for you!

 

[Witch]

Wow,

Thank you for the insight and the link
you have me re-thinking my approach

 

[BWL]

they did a lot of patches to fix issues but still have massive fluctuation in the chimes and Nav prompts which is ear piercing and speaker blowing. The DSP and the app side are very very amazing though, even though Customer service is pretty good its a joint effort from IData and RF so finger pointing exists as they are responsible for different parts. This proved to be a great help for IData CS on the DSR integration http://www.12voltdata.com/viewforum.php?f=427

If I had to do it over again I would have run the PAC AR and used the DSR1 as a stand alone DSP and I think it would be flawless

I've been trying to find out if the updates fixed the issues. Not what I was wanting to hear exactly, but an honest assessment from someone running one is what I was looking for.

 

[BWL]

Wow,

Thank you for the insight and the link
you have me re-thinking my approach

I just went over things with my audio guy. He says everything works flawlessly on their show truck with alpine system and DSP1. I'm going with the JL 8008 in 6 channel so 100X2 to dash tweeter, 200X2 to front mid bass and 100X2 to the rear coax in the doors. No centre or rear roof speakers. Running the dash tweeters amplified seperately allow tuning them perfect with the dsp as well as setting any time correction. I definitely recommend that method over screwing around with caps,resistors etc to keep them from being overpowering and trying to get the frequency band set one attempt at a time. I have so much into it now I'm going to pay the 4 hours labour to get it all tuned and set up properly so I don't have as many issues and if I do I can get them to correct them for me.

 

[Witch]

Wow, I dont have an audio guy :-(

Where do you live .......... lol

I thought the caps would work good , but now base on your guys assessment I am thinking I may send my 4 channel back and get a six channel or add a Small 2 channel, but then I would have three amps ..... lol


What do you guys think about dumping the 3.5" speakers and getting some nice components and mounting the tweeters where the 3.5" speakers go, saw some one selling Focals components on here the other day ? wouldn't that get me out of going 6 channels and not having to use caps ? or do you still need caps with component spaekmers ?

 

[BWL]

If you use component speakers and amplify the components separately you don't need caps or any crossovers that come in the set as you can set the frequency range and level with the dsp for each channel. I'll be running components in the front with the midbass in the door and tweeter in the dash.

 

[Witch]

O so you got rid of the 3.5" speakers altogether ?

 

[BWL]

Yes. No 3.5" tweeter is there instead. I did see a 3 way component set where they did the midbass in the doors, mid in the dash and tweeter in a custom pod, but I didn't want anything visible that wasn't stock. That system was ott though. Running the 8008 just for the front components

 

[TomT]

Wow, I dont have an audio guy :-(

Where do you live .......... lol

I thought the caps would work good , but now base on your guys assessment I am thinking I may send my 4 channel back and get a six channel or add a Small 2 channel, but then I would have three amps ..... lol


What do you guys think about dumping the 3.5" speakers and getting some nice components and mounting the tweeters where the 3.5" speakers go, saw some one selling Focals components on here the other day ? wouldn't that get me out of going 6 channels and not having to use caps ? or do you still need caps with component spaekmers ?

Components can be either active or passive. It all depends on if you have a DSP. My old system was partially active three way. I ran a DSP and then a single channel to the midbasses and single channel to passive crossovers running both midrange and tweeter. You can see that in this photo.

 

[BWL]

Wow, I dont have an audio guy :-(

There's a shop in town here and I prefer to buy off them so I can get tech support in person vs over the phone or internet. My whole system was only about $200 more getting it there vs ordering it all online and having to pick it up in stages and most of that was the wiring. Figured cheap insurance in case I have problems and I was able to hear and see most of what I was buying before I ordered it. Plus they'll deal with shipping stuff back and forth for warranty if needed

 

[Witch]

Wow, that looks like some nice stuff , all this sure has me thinking


That is a good idea, Got all mine online so crossing my fingers it all works ... lol, I agree though local is a good idea for sure


What if I ran the dash and door speakers off the RD/400 and get a lower cost brick amp for the rear fill speakers ?

would that work or not really ?

 

[TomT]

Question one, did you get the PAC Audio unit?

Did I see you say that you could return the 4 channel and get a six channel? That would be ideal.

Do you already have your sub amp?

 

[Witch]

No, going to stick it out with the Rockford DSR1 , currently back ordered but ships out 3/28 supposedly

Called up to return the amp and they are going to charge a restock fee and all shipping is on me

Yes I currently have a Rockford Prime R250X1 for the sub

Had another thought ? what if I get rid of the Rockford and buy a second JL RD400/4 ?

Could I use two channels for the dash speakers and some how tie the other two channels together to push the sub ?

They give you the 4 gauge kit for free with it so I could sell the Rockford amp and the amp kit to recover some of the JL amp cost ?

Also would a 4 gauge run two of those Amps ? says they are 40 amp fuses , not sure how many amps (1) 4 gauge can push ?

 

[TomT]

With multiple amps the best way is to run a larger power wire to the back of the cab. There it goes into a distribution block. Then you have multiple 4 gauge power wires going to each amp.

 

[BWL]

The 400/4 would work if you have a 4 ohm sub, but you'd lose 20% of your sub power. My 8008 XD amp only needs a 4 guage so 2 400/4 should be fine with 4 guage since it's basically the same. That would give you 100X4 to front speakers 100X2 to rear and 200WX1 to sub. You'd probably be best to just run something like a rockford 150X2 for the rear speakers and run the 400/4 for 4 channels in the front. Any of these options should perform fine with a 4 guage since you're not running a big subwoofer amp and you won't really push the other or others too hard with any of these options.

 

[Witch]

Thanks for the insight, this is crazy just to put a stereo in my truck ......... lol

 

[TomT]

It’s not really crazy. Mostly basic audio and electronics stuff. I think the reason it’s making you crazy is that you made a plan and started buying things without knowing the basics.

By basics I mean what a crossover does, what a DSP does, how the final load (Ohms) can make an amp work easier or harder.

The crazy part will come when you’re trying to troubleshoot the connection from the factory Alpine to your DSP. The PAC unit is your friend here.

You haven’t bought all that much stuff yet. The wiring and the amp are good. Since you are going with a DSP, you will most likely run active. That means you’ll need seven channels of power (I’m assuming a two way front, coaxial rear doors, and the sub). That jumps to nine channels if you decide to go three way up front.

Step back for a minute and draw out your system plan and signal chain on paper. It will help get it out of your head and make it easier for you to see things that may need changing. Better now than when it’s all in boxes all over the living room (been there, done that).

 

[JRitz187]

Hey again! I think if you decide to stick with the DSR1 then thats cool its finiky at times but is pretty great. The only reason I mentioned the PAC is it's proven to work nicely and the DSR can be run as a stand alone DSP which is its best feature. If the DSR1 gives you trouble you can always add the PAC and you're not out any more money so could be trial and error before you go for that route. Tom T above is correct, go back and forth and draw it up and redraw it and think and rethink until youve gotten yourself comfortable and then go on a buying spree, will save you headache and money in the long run.

The one thing I would say about the amps is, unless you have a 5 channel designed for a sub keep your sub separate off a monoblock. Much better. If you've already got your 4 channel and you're happy with it then the only problem to work is how to power your dash speakers so you can really take advantage of the DSP tuning and gaining. The reason I mentioned the Apline KTP is that it runs off the same power as the receiver and is bridgable to 90W/2 channels for your 3.5's which is more than enough power and its pretty small and does a nice job for those little guys. https://www.amazon.com/Alpine-KTP-445U-4-channel-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003VVYL46 I have no affiliation just a neat easy little amp for something like this, other companies make similar as well. Hell stick with your stock 3.5's and upgrade later if ya want, there is a decent clarity difference with the Kicker KS for $40 though https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-KSC35...&qid=1522157916&sr=8-1&keywords=Kicker+KS+3.5 I like the 3.5 over the component tweeter because I still do get a little mid out of the 3.5 that I notice.

As far as underpowering your rear "fill" speakers to favor the fronts I think that goes back to Tom's point and that seems like fitting a square peg in a round hole with plannign. Plus, while you're not sitting back there it surely helps the roll off of the lows from the sub to the midbass and with weaker power you could easily hear a gap as that transitions. Remember your goal should be full omidirectional sound meaning its loud, clear and full across all frequencies without being able to tell which speaker its coming from.

Hope that helps, I think you're most of the way there just need to work the actual problem or go for your original plan and determine if you like it and if you want a little more add the powered 3.5's later...but we all know youll want em! haha.

 

[Witch]

Wow,

Thanks for all the insight, going to try to wrap my head around this
Just don't know enough about this stuff, going to try to reason this out

 

[Witch]

Alright, took your guys advice and drew this out on a piece of paper
That really helped get me get my wrapped around this.

From the cheap seats it seems like a single 6 channel amp is the most effective approach ?

Called up the vendor and explained the situation and they sent me a label to return the RD400/4 amp and 4 gauge 4 channel wiring kit

So now I bought a JL XD600/6v2 amp and got the NVX 6 channel 4 gauge kit for free

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_81598_JL-Audio-XD600-6v2.html

I am hoping this simplifies my life as I can keep the sub amp intact and simply need to add two more speaker wires from the new amp to the factory amp location to connect up the dash speakers to the additional channels