Did they fix the lifters on newer 4th Gens?

[crackerjack1957]

Same RedLine oil with SRT filter did NOT.

Thanks for proving my point on the octane grade is not the fault of startup/idle noise.
Think maybe others with noise should try SRT filter.
If exhaust bolts aren't broken & no cam/lifter damage its simply lifter bleed down...once pumped up noise goes away unless you have piston slap but that is a different noise.

 

[ChevySlayer69]

I run 93 in my truck and can, at will, make the engine make a God awful knocking noise at startup.

1. Start truck and barely move it (think moving from one side of driveway to another)
2. Shut truck down after step 1, it doesnt seem to matter if you rev it a little before doing so or not.
3. Attempt to restart truck after 30 minutes or so. You will get the God awful noise.

I use 93 in my truck simply because Costco only sells 87 or 93 and their 93 price is so low already I dont mind "splurging". This noise has always been there, even with 93 pumped through my engine most of its life (15K miles on it right now)

This is not a fuel octane level thing...it is an oil flow thing, lifters arent getting filled or air is in the system or something.

Note that if you actually drive the truck for 5 or 10 minutes then park it, the God awful noise does NOT occur on next startup.

Ive actually been able to minimize the noise using the SRT oil filter. Since I can make it happen at will, I will try after every oil change to see if it still does it. RedLine oil with Royal Purple filter still made the noise. Same RedLine oil with SRT filter did NOT.

One trick you can do when stuck in this situation where it will make noise, is turn the key with the gas pedal depressed. It will just crank without starting. 5 seconds of that will build up oil pressure and when you start it there will be no lifter noise.

 

[fijicorey]

I run 93 in my truck and can, at will, make the engine make a God awful knocking noise at startup.

1. Start truck and barely move it (think moving from one side of driveway to another)
2. Shut truck down after step 1, it doesnt seem to matter if you rev it a little before doing so or not.
3. Attempt to restart truck after 30 minutes or so. You will get the God awful noise.

I use 93 in my truck simply because Costco only sells 87 or 93 and their 93 price is so low already I dont mind "splurging". This noise has always been there, even with 93 pumped through my engine most of its life (15K miles on it right now)

This is not a fuel octane level thing...it is an oil flow thing, lifters arent getting filled or air is in the system or something.

Note that if you actually drive the truck for 5 or 10 minutes then park it, the God awful noise does NOT occur on next startup.

Ive actually been able to minimize the noise using the SRT oil filter. Since I can make it happen at will, I will try after every oil change to see if it still does it. RedLine oil with Royal Purple filter still made the noise. Same RedLine oil with SRT filter did NOT.

This is what happens to me almost exactly. I only get it when I move the short very short distances. However, the truck won't do it every time. It is inconsistent for me unfortunately.

Side note, I've recently change my oil and I haven't had the noise since. Oil is PUP 5w-30 and filter is Wix XP. Again, probably too many variables to pin it down on one thing.

 

[opie]

One trick you can do when stuck in this situation where it will make noise, is turn the key with the gas pedal depressed. It will just crank without starting. 5 seconds of that will build up oil pressure and when you start it there will be no lifter noise.

I don’t think that engine oil pressure is the issue. Mine was tapping with 59psi.

It’s got to be related to the lifters or the solenoids.


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[crackerjack1957]

I don’t think that engine oil pressure is the issue. Mine was tapping with 59psi.

It’s got to be related to the lifters or the solenoids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Not really psi at start related.....lifters bleed down....oil is replaced with air....engine cranks....takes a few minutes to purge air out & pump up the lifters with oil which makes valve train rattle.
Thus the reason ChevySlayer69 gets good results by pumping up lifters with spinning engine over before firing.
Hydraulics 101......every have air in your brake line......hydraulic roller lifters in that Hemi

 

[ChevySlayer69]

Not really psi at start related.....lifters bleed down....oil is replaced with air....engine cranks....takes a few minutes to purge air out & pump up the lifters with oil which makes valve train rattle.
Thus the reason ChevySlayer69 gets good results by pumping up lifters with spinning engine over before firing.
Hydraulics 101......every have air in your brake line......hydraulic roller lifters in that Hemi

Yes exactly. My theory to lifter failure, specifically the needle bearings, is they can only take so much of a beating over the years hammering off the camshaft with the tapping noise. Cranking the engine pumps up the bled down lifter while the engine is spinning much more slowly than a 1500rpm cold start. Maybe my reasoning is wrong but doing this does eliminate the tapping.

 

[chadder1313]

I had a 2015 GMC Sierra with the 5.3. It had the cold start clatter. Those trucks seem to be reasonably fine over the long haul. My 6.4 hemi seems to be a bit better with the cold start clatter than the GMC.

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[opie]

Not really psi at start related.....lifters bleed down....oil is replaced with air....engine cranks....takes a few minutes to purge air out & pump up the lifters with oil which makes valve train rattle.
Thus the reason ChevySlayer69 gets good results by pumping up lifters with spinning engine over before firing.
Hydraulics 101......every have air in your brake line......hydraulic roller lifters in that Hemi

But there’s no difference in how that oil reaches pressure. It’s run off the same oil pump whether the engine is running or simply turning over.

And if it takes a ‘few minutes’ to ‘bleed air’ out of a hydraulic lifter, then the design is flawed.


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[OFw Kalli]

No I'm from Edmonton

Hi, I am from Edmonton, too

Back to topic.
My '17 Sport is quite too.
I run since this winter 0w20 pup, before 5w20 pup.
Oil change according computer at around 11k Km (6800mi) mostly short distance driving

Edit:
I run 87 octane for daily driving (with OCC). If anybody have octane caused knocking problems, he should check his knocking sensor. If this sensor is ok, it's not possible to note knocking.

 

[ScrubsR1]

I had a 2015 GMC Sierra with the 5.3. It had the cold start clatter. Those trucks seem to be reasonably fine over the long haul. My 6.4 hemi seems to be a bit better with the cold start clatter than the GMC.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

In regards to your GMC- the "cold start clatter" you heard was most likely piston slap, something I wouldn't be overly concerned about. The weak lifters in the hemi are a far more serious issue imho.

 

[chadder1313]

In regards to your GMC- the "cold start clatter" you heard was most likely piston slap, something I wouldn't be overly concerned about. The weak lifters in the hemi are a far more serious issue imho.

Good point. I've never thought about piston slap. I just remember hearing it almost Everytime I've started the vehicle. My hemi really isn't noisy on start up or if it is I don't even notice it. I've only ever heard it do it if you cold start it to move a short distance and shut it off, then move it like an hour later. That's really the only time I've ever was like wow that's loud.

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[Nutshell]

Thanks for proving my point on the octane grade is not the fault of startup/idle noise.
Think maybe others with noise should try SRT filter.
If exhaust bolts aren't broken & no cam/lifter damage its simply lifter bleed down...once pumped up noise goes away unless you have piston slap but that is a different noise.

Is the SRT filter fully synthetic media?

 

[terb]

What year did they start to have lifter issues?

The same year they made the first Hemi...........

 

[chrisbh17]

Is the SRT filter fully synthetic media?

Yes.

 

[crackerjack1957]

But there’s no difference in how that oil reaches pressure. It’s run off the same oil pump whether the engine is running or simply turning over.

And if it takes a ‘few minutes’ to ‘bleed air’ out of a hydraulic lifter, then the design is flawed.


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No difference in pressure but engines not running so no clatter......yes I agree the lifters are flawed & that's why their are new lifters out with a different part number.

 

[Nutshell]

Yes.

Is there any documentation on this? Can’t find much info on this filter

 

[crackerjack1957]

Is there any documentation on this? Can’t find much info on this filter

Found this quote on a few other forums but could not find where it originated.

041AA Filter -
"For track-day use, SRT engineers suggest using the SRT oil filter (part number 05038041AA). Originally designed for Viper applications, it works great with all Chrysler V8 engines."

This information was sent out in a SRT news release and was publically verified by SRT engineers, and confirmed during a SRT Engineering chat session. The 041 is a factory and certified Mopar part.

"The SRT oil filter for all the past engines and the new 22mm inlet SRT filter for the Gen 4 and beyond engines share the same characteristics.
We worked with many of the filter suppliers to get the best features. Some fell out for various performance reasons but we ended up developing the current SRT filters with one of the mainstream manufacturers (it is different than their commercial offerings - or at least was when we developed it). The high flow oil pumps in our large engines (Viper is the biggest) can overpower the internal relief valve. When this valve opens it allows some of the high pressure dirty oil to bypass the filter element in order to keep the filter from being damaged. The SRT filters do indeed have a higher differential bypass valve to make sure all the oil delivered to your powerplant is clean. The housing is slightly thicker than many of the brands out there to handle the pressure but is not the thickest. The real thick ones failed our development testing (fractured at the crimped flange). The media used was one of the latest synthetics that allowed very fine filtration, more debris capacity, and much lower restriction than our standard Mopar filter (and just about every other filter out there). The final result was clean oil to your Snake, all the time, with more pressure to the internals where it is needed. I would fully recommend using this filter in your beast, I do in mine. Hope this info helps. KCC"

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/srt-oil-filter.196113/#

 

[Nutshell]

Found this quote on a few other forums but could not find where it originated.

041AA Filter -
"For track-day use, SRT engineers suggest using the SRT oil filter (part number 05038041AA). Originally designed for Viper applications, it works great with all Chrysler V8 engines."

This information was sent out in a SRT news release and was publically verified by SRT engineers, and confirmed during a SRT Engineering chat session. The 041 is a factory and certified Mopar part.

"The SRT oil filter for all the past engines and the new 22mm inlet SRT filter for the Gen 4 and beyond engines share the same characteristics.
We worked with many of the filter suppliers to get the best features. Some fell out for various performance reasons but we ended up developing the current SRT filters with one of the mainstream manufacturers (it is different than their commercial offerings - or at least was when we developed it). The high flow oil pumps in our large engines (Viper is the biggest) can overpower the internal relief valve. When this valve opens it allows some of the high pressure dirty oil to bypass the filter element in order to keep the filter from being damaged. The SRT filters do indeed have a higher differential bypass valve to make sure all the oil delivered to your powerplant is clean. The housing is slightly thicker than many of the brands out there to handle the pressure but is not the thickest. The real thick ones failed our development testing (fractured at the crimped flange). The media used was one of the latest synthetics that allowed very fine filtration, more debris capacity, and much lower restriction than our standard Mopar filter (and just about every other filter out there). The final result was clean oil to your Snake, all the time, with more pressure to the internals where it is needed. I would fully recommend using this filter in your beast, I do in mine. Hope this info helps. KCC"

Thanks. I’ve ready that a few times. Every one I see cut open looks like a Mobil 1 filter. May be a synthetic blend but it doesn’t appear to be a fully wire backed synthetic media.

 

[seabrook]

I run 93 in my truck and can, at will, make the engine make a God awful knocking noise at startup.

1. Start truck and barely move it (think moving from one side of driveway to another)
2. Shut truck down after step 1, it doesnt seem to matter if you rev it a little before doing so or not.
3. Attempt to restart truck after 30 minutes or so. You will get the God awful noise.

I use 93 in my truck simply because Costco only sells 87 or 93 and their 93 price is so low already I dont mind "splurging". This noise has always been there, even with 93 pumped through my engine most of its life (15K miles on it right now)

This is not a fuel octane level thing...it is an oil flow thing, lifters arent getting filled or air is in the system or something.

Note that if you actually drive the truck for 5 or 10 minutes then park it, the God awful noise does NOT occur on next startup.

Ive actually been able to minimize the noise using the SRT oil filter. Since I can make it happen at will, I will try after every oil change to see if it still does it. RedLine oil with Royal Purple filter still made the noise. Same RedLine oil with SRT filter did NOT.

Man that really blows my theory lol sorry to hear tha!! Here is a coldstart 43° outside it sat from 4 o’clock pm yesterday Till today. I started it this morning at 8 o’clock. I run mobile one extended care and a extended care filter so nothing special. So maybe I just got lucky

 

[Wild one]

The same year they made the first Hemi...........

That would be way back in the 50's when the first of the Red Ram hemi's came out ,don't think those Hemi's had lifter issues. The Gen 1 Hemi's are older then anybody on here,lol. Maybe you should qualify your answer to mean the Gen 3 Hemi which was available starting in 03,but the lifter issue didn't really become a big issue till they went to VVT in 09.The early Gen 3's were famous for dropping valve seats,but not near as famous as the later VVT engines are for bad lifters