Diesel vs Gas

[SouthTexan]

Better fuel economy and reliability? Ill give you resale value and towing performance, but thats it. I have heard horror stories about repairs on diesels. A lot of reason why people stay away from them nowadays (including the emissions crap). Dont you think youre going to spend thousands over the life of the truck on the increased fuel price? Cause you are. Better fuel economy/ increased fuel price. Better resale /higher motor price&more costly to maintain.

There are horror stories on both. Just focusing on diesel repairs is making a biased comment. Usually when those high repair bills kick in for diesels then it would be time to get another truck or engine replacement for a gasser. Yeah, replacing injectors at 250k like my father-in-law did is costly, but he is now able to go another 250k without major costly repairs. My uncle's gasser 5.7L 2500 would have needed to be replaced by then, but he traded it in for another at 190k (he only got about 5k for the truck if I remember correctly) So which is cheaper, a truck replacement or injector/fuel pump replacement?


Also, studies have proven that when factoring in total cost of ownership (TCO) with things like resale value, depreciation, maintenance, repairs, fuel, taxes, and insurance, diesel do actually cost less in three and five year mark.

For instance, this University of Michigan study published June of 2015 has the Ram 2500 gasser costing $2,281 more than the Ram 2500 diesel if you traded it in at the three year/45,000 mile mark, and has the Ram 2500 gasser costing $2,289 more than the diesel if you traded it in at the five year/75,000 mark.

Total Cost of Ownership: A Diesel Versus Gasoline Comparison


EDIT: I forgot to mention that the study above does not factor in fuel mileage when towing which would make diesel cost even less depending on how much you tow.

 

[THETANK]

have neither the 6.4 or the Cummins but I have to say South Texas is the winner in this debate. Oh I know zero members on this board, CONGRATULATIONS South Texas

 

[SouthTexan]

have neither the 6.4 or the Cummins but I have to say South Texas is the winner in this debate. Oh I know zero members on this board, CONGRATULATIONS South Texas

They are going to think I paid you to say that.....



Btw, the check is in the mail.

 

[BossHogg]

For instance, this University of Michigan study published June of 2015 has the Ram 2500 gasser costing $2,281 more than the Ram 2500 diesel if you traded it in at the three year/45,000 mile mark, and has the Ram 2500 gasser costing $2,289 more than the diesel if you traded it in at the five year/75,000 mark.

Very interesting paper, good find and thanks for posting.

 

[THETANK]

They are going to think I paid you to say that.....



Btw, the check is in the mail.

I just calls 'em as I sees 'em

 

[cc rider]

Someones replying to their own thread to make themselves look better

 

[avolnek]

Hmmm... this sounds like someone else we know on here but with a different user name.

I am my very own person i assure you of that. you will not find another ******* like me i promise...

 

[SouthTexan]

I am my very own person i assure you of that. you will not find another ******* like me i promise...

I LOL'ed at that, especially the last part....

 

[SouthTexan]

Someones replying to their own thread to make themselves look better

Dang, you caught me. I started that username before I even purchased my current Ram and made 791 posts just so I can make it look valid for this thread to make myself look better. Yeah, that's it.

 

[cc rider]

Notice the smiley face

Dang, you caught me. I started that username before I even purchased my current Ram and made 791 posts just so I can make it look valid for this thread to make myself look better. Yeah, that's it.

 

[wyo2track]

There are horror stories on both. Just focusing on diesel repairs is making a biased comment. Usually when those high repair bills kick in for diesels then it would be time to get another truck or engine replacement for a gasser. Yeah, replacing injectors at 250k like my father-in-law did is costly, but he is now able to go another 250k without major costly repairs. My uncle's gasser 5.7L 2500 would have needed to be replaced by then, but he traded it in for another at 190k (he only got about 5k for the truck if I remember correctly) So which is cheaper, a truck replacement or injector/fuel pump replacement?


Also, studies have proven that when factoring in total cost of ownership (TCO) with things like resale value, depreciation, maintenance, repairs, fuel, taxes, and insurance, diesel do actually cost less in three and five year mark.

For instance, this University of Michigan study published June of 2015 has the Ram 2500 gasser costing $2,281 more than the Ram 2500 diesel if you traded it in at the three year/45,000 mile mark, and has the Ram 2500 gasser costing $2,289 more than the diesel if you traded it in at the five year/75,000 mark.

Total Cost of Ownership: A Diesel Versus Gasoline Comparison


EDIT: I forgot to mention that the study above does not factor in fuel mileage when towing which would make diesel cost even less depending on how much you tow.

Interesting report indeed. Here is Michigan's gas vs. diesel report from just 2 years earlier published in 2013.

http://www.umtri.umich.edu/sites/default/files/UMTRI.TCO_.Final_.Report.06.24.13.Final_.pdf

The 2013 report actually favors gasoline by $578 in just 5yrs of ownership. Perhaps the difference now in TCO is RAM improved the overall reliability of their diesel trucks in the period analyzed. As depreciation is the main factor in the TCO, I do question the MSRP values listed in Michigan's report with regards to their gas comparison. In defense of the 6.4 Hemi, the 2015 report does not take into consideration the 6.4 option as it only looked at trucks up through 2013, which, the 6.4 wasn't available. 6.4 Hemi owners pay the premium for that engine which does increase the MSRP $1500 right on the top for this gas option. Keeping all other figures the same, that will lower the overall TCO between the 6.4 gas and 6.7 diesel option. The 6.4 gas option still will cost more using the reports analysis, but, it will likely be less than $1000 in 5 years of ownership, rather than the $2200. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cc rider]

There you go making assumptions again. Can u tell tone from text? why would I be mad ? If anything , you entertain me. That's why I don't ignore you. I'm Not going to discuss the rvnet stuff with you anymore. Trolls persistently argue the same topic. . You give people crap For name calling in other threads, but.......

What is this butt hurt anyway? Did they teach you that in church?

First butt hurt. You get mad because I said he was your buddy? Too funny. I figured you two were like peas and carrots with him being a fellow 6.4L owner and all. Or is it because he's from Canada? C'mon, Canadians aren't bad. Maybe you should become buddies with ib516. He is genuinely a good guy from my run-ins with him and he is going through a nasty divorce so maybe you can tell him a thing or two about since you been through it.


Second butt hurt. You stated "I didn't read everything thoroughly" yet you questioned the credibility. So if you would have taken my advice (instead of being lazy) and actually read through the thread (especially the next few page where he shows pictures of his truck and trailer) then you would not have sounded like a fool for questioning the credibility. Just trying to help you out..... buddy. Besides, I said "please read" so that was not telling, that was asking.


Third butt hurt, Yeah I said you shouldn't tow heavy going up hills especially in higher altitudes and should lower the amount that you are towing to compensate for how steep and high you will be towing. Every truck manufacturer (except for Ram) tells you this in their owners packet. What does me telling you this have to do with his credibility? You didn't know that before I told you so maybe he didn't know that either. Well....... he does now.

 

[1500ram12]

multiple combatants in this ring.....one hell of thread op!

You're welcome. Wanted them to have a place to play instead of wondering off on other threads

 

[SouthTexan]

Interesting report indeed. Here is Michigan's gas vs. diesel report from just 2 years earlier published in 2013.

http://www.umtri.umich.edu/sites/default/files/UMTRI.TCO_.Final_.Report.06.24.13.Final_.pdf

The 2013 report actually favors gasoline by $578 in just 5yrs of ownership. Perhaps the difference now in TCO is RAM improved the overall reliability of their diesel trucks in the period analyzed. As depreciation is the main factor in the TCO, I do question the MSRP values listed in Michigan's report with regards to their gas comparison. In defense of the 6.4 Hemi, the 2015 report does not take into consideration the 6.4 option as it only looked at trucks up through 2013, which, the 6.4 wasn't available. 6.4 Hemi owners pay the premium for that engine which does increase the MSRP $1500 right on the top for this gas option. Keeping all other figures the same, that will lower the overall TCO between the 6.4 gas and 6.7 diesel option. The 6.4 gas option still will cost more using the reports analysis, but, it will likely be less than $1000 in 5 years of ownership, rather than the $2200. Just my 2 cents.

There is one major difference in the diesels in that older U of M study you posted and the recent one I did and that is the addition of an SCR/DEF system which not only raised fuel mileage from the 14 mpg average to 15 mpg average, but also reliability from pre-DEF 6.7L Cummins which increases resale. They split the study between 2012 models that did not have DEF and got 14 mpg and 2013+ models that did have DEF that get 16 mpg.


While the study does not factor in the 6.4L since it was not out yet, I still don't think that it would make any significant change in the outcome since the higher upfront cost of the 6.4L over the 5.7L would just cancel itself out with the higher resale value. Of course resale value and depreciation is dependent upon the market. Certain areas a gasser will hold its value more than in other depending on the demand.

Across the board, gas engines depreciate at a much faster rate especially with the more miles on them versus a diesel. This is primarily due to the fact that most diesels will outlast most gas engines. Where most people perceive 100k miles on a gas being half it's life, that is only a quarter(or less) of a diesels life. Yeah there are exceptions where some gas engines will get up to 300k, but there are also exception for diesels with some getting a million miles like those in the Cummins "Million Mile Club".

Either way, in most cases the diesel does not cost more like people like to assume. Even if it does then it is less than $1,000 over a 5 year period like the $578 in that older study you have. That is only $115 more per year. At that point you would have to ask yourself, is an additional $115 a year worth the added pulling power, capabilities, and exhaust brake? For some it won't , but for others it will. Afterall, $578 over a 5 year time is less than half of what the 6.4L option costs.

 

[SouthTexan]

Notice the smiley face

Notice my ?

 

[SouthTexan]

What is this butt hurt anyway?

LMGTFY

 

[68PowerWagon]

I don't usually browse the heavy duty threads but once a week, but with these shenanigans maybe I should more often. How old are you guys? 12, 13?? ******* grow up!! Okay, back to your regularly scheduled arguing and repeating the same **** for 16 pages!!

Does make ya wonder if the local high school shop class has got involved sometimes. State your opinion & be done with it!
I have to admit the back & forth crying cause "Bobby said my facts aren't true!" & "Jimmy called me a name!" can be entertaining. Entertaining unless you are the guy who actually needs information, then you have to wade through pages of tantrums.

 

[1500ram12]

Does make ya wonder if the local high school shop class has got involved sometimes. State your opinion & be done with it!
I have to admit the back & forth crying cause "Bobby said my facts aren't true!" & "Jimmy called me a name!" can be entertaining. Entertaining unless you are the guy who actually needs information, then you have to wade through pages of tantrums.

This wasn't necessarily created to be a informative thread. More of a ******* match thread. Although some useful information may come out in it.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

^^ yup. Keeps them occupied so the other threads remain relatively unmolested

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

 

[SouthTexan]

^^ yup. Keeps them occupied so the other threads remain relatively unmolested

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Yeah 68powerwagon, quit mentioning Cummins in a thread about the 6.4L Hemi 4500.