Good solid brake rotors?

[Wild one]

Depends how high the heat goes. If enough to temper or soften the ferrous alloy, then yes. Austempering temperature of carbon-alloyed iron matrix is 1,333 degrees F.

It's more complex than this, which is why I was looking for field experiences - usually @Wild one knows. Different friction pads have different liquification temperatures. Liquification causes brake fade - i.e. - puts a layer of liquid between the pad and rotor at high speed. When you hit the brakes, ain't nobody home. Experienced that once - cooled my a$$ right off after flying through a one way stop sign at naughty speed.

Anyway, carbon fiber ceramic is most resistant to heat fade (hard / high speed braking) so would produce faster wear on high speed and heavy loaded vehicles. I like ceramic, myself. Remember, the heat generated is directly proportional to the friction imparted = stopping "power".

I'm not the best guy to ask about brakes,i routinely get 150,000+ miles out of a set of pads,lol. I'm a drag racer,and if i'm not racing i drive like Grandpa,ask my wife. I grew up driving overloaded 3-5 ton farmtrucks,that you were lucky if 1 brake out of 4 worked,so i learned along time ago to read traffic,and drive for a mile ahead

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm not the best guy to ask about brakes,i routinely get 150,000+ miles out of a set of pads,lol. I'm a drag racer,and if i'm not racing i drive like Grandpa,ask my wife. I grew up driving overloaded 3-5 ton farmtrucks,that you were lucky if 1 brake out of 4 worked,so i learned along time ago to read traffic,and drive for a mile ahead

Well, at least you aren't using Flintstone brakes anyway.

 

[Wild one]

Well, at least you aren't using Flintstone brakes anyway.

Some of the farm trucks i've drove over the years ,could only wish to have brakes as good as what Fred and Barney had,lol

 

[Tray Burge]

I'm run'n these pads at the moment.

 

[hemihustlin]

I'm run'n these pads at the moment.
View attachment 494439the dust must be bad haha

 

[HEMIMANN]

Feet of Fred "twinkle toes" Flinstone at the bowling alley.

Anybody old enough to remember Fred's approach to the foul line?

 

[Wild one]

Feet of Fred "twinkle toes" Flinstone at the bowling alley.

Anybody old enough to remember Fred's approach to the foul line?

Best fathers day gift i ever got,was from my son.Several years ago,he bought the complete Flintstones libary on DVD for me.If i'm at home by myself,i still plug a Flintstone DVD in,lol

 

[TomB 1269]

Do Powerstop rotors wear out significantly faster due to less frictional surface area from holes and slots?

I'm about 2/3 of the way to change. Powerstop also pushes changing out calipers to theirs for some reason short of more sales.

Hell NO....
But what the do is literally take whatever you throw at them with ease. I tried to get Power Stop D&S (drilled & Slotted) rotors with Z36 ceramic-carbon fiber composite pads the fade, and could not. I used to put my F150 in 2nd on one section of road when towing my trailer ( about 3000lbs) down the twisty hill. After Power Stop I no longer felt the need as the brakes handle it fine.
I swear by them and put them on the front of every thing I own cause they just do not give out.

 

[TomB 1269]

Unless the material is softer no. But anything with slots or holes has less surface area so you get less braking area given the area of the rotor. The slots and holes are for outgassing, airflow and pad cleaning at the expense of less area and a rotor that’s prone to cracking (drilled rotors). . All those are not needed on my
DD truck.

This is not quite correct.
1st the amount of surface area removed is minimal and has not real effect.
2nd the outgassing and cleaning provided by slots and holes will increase the pads contact with the rotor by removing this material
3rd braking is all about turning kinetic energy to heat thru friction. Therefore the more heat I can dissipate the more mechanical friction I can induce due.
The D&S rotors in combination with a quality pad material, and most importantly proper installation and break-in of seating of pads will out perform just about any setup designed for daily use applications..........Track application (as in road course) has different parameters and requires different level of parts and materials.

 

[Hydrasport23]

Drilled and slotted Powerstop rotors, front and rear. Added The Powerstop heavy duty pads and NAPA rebuilt calipers. All bought through Detriot Axle. Excellent brake response and much improved over OEM.

 

[blackbetty14]

I'm not a metallurgist, far from it but I am educated enough to research and I am able to discount fake/false or misleading marketing information. In my process, of understanding braking materials, I discovered an amazing amount of credible information that has so far proven true, in my use case.

When you say "basic principles still apply" and "much higher rate of cracking" and "I've had some do it", can you be more specific? You sound as if you have a strong background in metal sciences.

I've never had any rotor fail, and the Power Stops on my 3500 see some significant severe duty. Are you suggesting I will, or I may see rotor failure? When I was looking for a braking solution, I called Power Stop and they spend a good bit of time with me talking about all things brakes, and how their rotors and pads are formulated and formulated to work together. I specifically asked them if rotor cracking would be an issue, I told them in my research I found many references to rotor cracking. This is where "old school" thought and Internet stories came into the conversation.

What are the basic principles that cause a rotor to fracture or crack from a drilled hole? What conditions cause this, I'm thinking constant high heat exposure, like what a race car may see but not our on-the-road tow vehicles. Do you think current metal compounds have overcome the fracturing?

A higher rate of cracking is with respect to what?

The rotors that you have had failure experience with, what were the usage conditions? Were the rotors used outside their design intentions? The rotor failures, current failures and if so, what brands?

I'm thinking your observations are more from the context of high-performance vehicles and not from the daily drivers (which was the original context of the thread) and towing big RV's through the mountains.

Brakes are an item we don't address that often because brakes last most of us several years. I forget a lot of the details in between the brake changes and I realize that technological advances can be accumulated in those few years offering yet a better product with new and varying attributes.

I consider the quality of the materials that brake rotors are made from to vary greatly especially in the economy and middle class rotor price ranges. Rotors are nothing special… made from iron but there are lots of different grades of iron and it’s a crap shoot as you can’t tell just by looking at them. Generally with automobile parts you pay for what you get and the difference between a $30 pad set and a $100 pad set is drastic. I guy on YouTube tested economy, mid and high grade pads at a pad testing facility and even going from $30 to $60 was a huge difference in pad performance.

Ive purchased and run cheapo rotors and I found they didn’t last and got eaten up by semi metallic thermo quiet pads. I’ve run medium quality drilled and slotted rotors which developed hair line cracks around the drilled holes which where chamfered. When you drill through a rotor you create an area where stress cracks can form as it’s an inherent problem you can’t avoid due to the drilling. Also most rotors are vented and not solid which makes it easier for cracks to form as they tend to drill in the open areas where the iron is the thinnest. They chamber the holes to help alleviate stress points and in my case they didn’t help. I’ve run medium grade slotted and dimpled rotors which don’t crack but found no real advantage over the solid rotors which I have never warped on a daily type car. These are all non performance based applications and I can probably provide a list of vehicles I have driven over the years and none of these were trucks. For me the most responsive brakes were always solid rotors and a metallic pad.

Performance wise I’ve run cryo treated solid rotors (very nice) with carbon metallic pads on 4 piston disks on all 4 wheels. On another car I have BAER black label aftermarket upgraded brakes which came with drilled and slotted rotors and hawks performance ceramic pads. In the back of the same car has larger drilled and slotted rotors and ceramic pads and that car needs to build heat to feel the brakes start to grab. When cold they are noisy and lots of pedal in a 3500lb car vs the Ram that’s 6k on stock stuff. Eventually I will swap out the pads on that car for something non ceramic. I’ve run lots of different brands and I believe even powerstop on the rotors over the years (prob 10 years ago or more) and played around with performance brake companies like SSBC, BAER and Willwood. Again only time I’ve had a rotor crack or fail was a drilled rotor. Cracking is from heat and cool cycles which as you can imagine would be easy to generate while towing a trailer in a big heavy truck.

I have to say I received the Wagner premium ecoated rotors already and they look really nice. Nice finish even tho it doesn’t seem to be hatched on the pad surface which is different.

I’m not saying my word is gospel, just saying what I’ve dealt with over the years and I prefer solid rotors with non ceramic pads. I can imagine drilled rotors benefiting high load/tow situations but I also see that as drastic heat input and cool down which is a problem for drilled rotors. Race cars change parts more frequently and generally once they get the brakes hot they stay hot. I’ve never warped a rotor so for me Drilled offers no benefits.

 

[BWL]

Had no issue with the Wagner's, also had good luck with delco coated rotors and the coated napa premium as well, which could be Wagner or delco for all I know.

 

[EdGs]

I have used Wagner Themoquiet (semi- metallic) pads on my last 4 or 5 vehicles (my '15 Ram 1500 included). Excellent quality and longevity IMO.

Have never used their OEX (ceramic) pads, but have read nothing but good things about them

Have never used Wagner rotors, but based upon my experience with their brake pads, I would have zero second thoughts about giving them a go.