Help Needed!!! 13 swap into 09

[Jared Worley]

4th Gen Experts....

Bought an 2009 with issues (maybe they were also in my head). I've got a truck with 170k on it that has the cam/lifter failure. Facing some immediate choices and need expertise. Having truck towed Wed and of course there are local deals that will disappear as we speak...

Options:

1. Perhaps the best option... Complete 2013 Swap with only 36k miles 1700 bucks but turnkey... kind of. It does have the 65rfe trans full harness and PCM (Trans P52119976AE). However, it is a 4wd and mine is a 2wd. Need help with considerations. Yes I've done a lot of reading already and still not clear.
- Can I just get the 4wd pcm reflashed to my vin and 2wd (I have the 545rfe in my ram)?
- Can I just swap the tailhousing for the transfer case and go?
- Possible to use factory dual exhaust from 4wd on 2wd?
- What else should I consider or look out for compatibility wise?

2. 96k Long block and most accessories. SCRAPPED THIS Idea

3. Great deal for rebuilt long block (no warranty but obviously brand new reman crated) 1500.00 will bolt right in but to all old well used parts.

4. DIY full rebuild - SCRAPPED (Not enough time or space)

5. Have someone else rebuild. I think labor would go sky high vs other options.

What would you guys choose? What else do I need to know about swapping the 13 into mine like pulling other parts (literally any)? Need reliability and hopefully low cost due to upcoming first baby.

Thanks in advance!

 

[CLOUDL1GHT]

If it was me, i'd go with 4. Then you absolutely know it's gonna be a good motor.

 

[Jared Worley]

To clarify - I'm leaning towards using the 13 long block and trans. The harness and PCM will be my 09. So far I know that I have to use my power steering and possibly alternator (different part numbers or mounting). Trying to dig into any other differences.

I talked to my local shop and it would only be about 900 to swap a new long block which I'm sure is a good engine. I've looked it over. Bolting to all old accessories makes me nervous so I want to use as many parts from the 13 that I can. Labor for turnkey swap of the 13 would only be about 650 (negligible difference) but depends on what additional issues arise. Also nets me a low mileage trans (important to me) I plan to swap the transfer case to my old tailshaft? Any other considerations?

 

[Jared Worley]

Please chime in with any info! Hopefully this is in the right section... PCM and harness/connectors are different systems but hoping it's compatible if swapped using my harness and PCM. If I just use the block and transmission, what other differences or warnings before I buy something that won't work? Need to move quickly! Truck arrives on Wed and engine could disappear anytime...

 

[Jared Worley]

No one? I have to pull the trigger in the next days. Surely someone can comment about putting a 13 motor in an 09. Have access to everything in the truck but dash and related harness so not planning to use 13 wiring or PCM.

 

[bassheadhemi]

me i would just swap engine and reuse what I have to have it back on the road asap then sell the truck and buy a more recent one



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[RLJ10X]

Walk away. From everything.

That truck will never be trustworthy.

 

[Jared Worley]

Appreciate the candor guys. I know there are issues with some of these trucks but every brand has an issue they are famous for (ex 5.4 tritons). It seems cam/lifter carnage is the most common. That said, it seems that it is still a non issue for most rams until over 100k. I've already bought a spare set of lifters that I will probably put in the 36k motor before it drops. I'm still reading up about slightly upgraded strength/length pushrods...

My plan is to swap the engine and trans and save everything I can from the new one. I'll sell the harness, power steering, PCM, power steering parts since I can't use them.

I got this truck for next to nothing and planned to replace all the primary stuff and shoot some paint (more my wheelhouse) so I will know everything is new. Call me crazy

 

[Hootbro]

13+ RAM's are a totally different wiring and electronic architecture. That was a mid cycle refresh year that seen a lot of minor and not so minor changes to the RAM trucks.

Unless you are willing to do a whole body rewire, the juice is not worth the squeeze for what you ask.

 

[Jared Worley]

Let me rephrase this guys. Can I use the 2013 long block without too much grief? This one still has the rfe trans and also the reason I'm leaning this way instead of a reman long block.

I've noted that the alternators are different and of course electric power steering can't be used with old pcm so mine has to be swapped. I'm not trying to use the new harness and PCM unless someone says otherwise. Will be using my old one. Concern is around using all the sensors, intake, coils etc. As much as possible considering all the parts are also low mileage. If too much needs to be done, bill will go up quick. I am considering pre-swapping some of the components before it goes to the shop since I planned to pull the heads, drop in new lifters (cheap insurance). The guy with the swap is giving me everything so I'll probably just sell the unused 13 parts. I'll have the full harness, even the fuel tank/pump, etc. so anything that can swap will.

 

[Hootbro]

I still do not see it flying without serious work. The PCM at least on the 13+ trucks is tied in by VIN with many other modules on the truck on a topography can bus layout that has it talking to the other modules on the system that are programed to the same VIN and looking for expected software. There is other modules on this topography like the BCM and a few others that are internal to the vehicle.

Trying to get different architecture systems from different years is not going to be plug and play by any mean. Never mind the fact it is also a difference between 2wd and a 4wd systems between them. Back in the 1980's, something like this was way more doable. Nowadays, what you ask is a bridge to far for most unless you got a professional shop setup and you swap just about everything in mass between the two.

 

[Jared Worley]

Thanks Hootbro - It sounds like you're referencing using the PCM and harness/architecture. I am trying to avoid doing that at this point. My hope was to just use the long block and my existing harness/PCM and swapping over any parts that are different. It is those parts that I am still trying to understand. The transmissions are the same aside from different programming in the PCM which can be reflashed to operate in the revised mode.

I still do not see it flying without serious work. The PCM at least on the 13+ trucks is tied in by VIN with many other modules on the truck on a topography can bus layout that has it talking to the other modules on the system that are programed to the same VIN and looking for expected software. There is other modules on this topography like the BCM and a few others that are internal to the vehicle.

Trying to get different architecture systems from different years is not going to be plug and play by any mean. Never mind the fact it is also a difference between 2wd and a 4wd systems between them. Back in the 1980's, something like this was way more doable. Nowadays, what you ask is a bridge to far for most unless you got a professional shop setup and you swap just about everything in mass between the two.

 

[Hootbro]

Thanks Hootbro - It sounds like you're referencing using the PCM and harness/architecture. I am trying to avoid doing that at this point. My hope was to just use the long block and my existing harness/PCM and swapping over any parts that are different. It is those parts that I am still trying to understand. The transmissions are the same aside from different programming in the PCM which can be reflashed to operate in the revised mode.

With that info, I would say at a minimum, the long block is doable. As for the transmission, I am not versed on that enough on that to give a educated comment on if it just entails reflashing or other methods to make work.

If the donor 65rfe is decent. a suggestion to consider is maybe selling or trading that for either a lower mileage or rebuilt 545rfe?

 

[Hootbro]

Another thing, If putting in the new long block from the donor and keeping a 545rfe in it, research and find out if the donor engine that was previously mated to the 65rfe has the same cam/crank timing specifications.

I know on some vehicle that may use the same basic design engine but change to a different transmission setup or even different model year, the engine cam/crank spec are different.

 

[jotin]

09 to 13 is going to be a nightmare. Everything is different. Good luck


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[Jared Worley]

With that info, I would say at a minimum, the long block is doable. As for the transmission, I am not versed on that enough on that to give a educated comment on if it just entails reflashing or other methods to make work.

If donor 65rfe is decent. a suggestion to consider is maybe selling or trading that for either a lower mileage or rebuilt 545rfe?

Good idea on trading/selling trans. Everything I've read is that they are the same just the programming in the pcm is different to give it a faux 6th speed. I've got to make sure I don't run into an issue with connectors trans or otherwise.

 

[Jared Worley]

09 to 13 is going to be a nightmare. Everything is different. Good luck


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Can you elaborate a little? I thought the Eagle long blocks/trans are the same as long as it's not the 8 speed model (This one is not). Understand power steering and alternator are different but will swap mine or use new. Coils and ignition system are the same. Trying to dig up more info about other sensors and solonoids... As long as they can be swapped or plugged into my 09 harness, we are golden...

 

[chrisp2493]

Why are you completely replacing the entire engine/trans just because of a lifter failure? Is there waaaay more damage then just that? If it’s just a lifter failure, replace the cam and lifters with new or upgraded ones, clean up the engine and be done with it. Plenty of members have had this issue and completely swapping long blocks is way overkill. I’m almost positive the engine blocks are all the exact same. The timing cover from the old engine should swap over to the ‘13 block if you really want to go that far, and you shouldn’t really have an issue using 7 year old accessories. If you really want to replace them, just get a few new replacement accessories. Unless there is a hole in the block, most engine problems can be fixed with new parts and a freshen up.


I Bleed Ram Trucks

 

[Jared Worley]

Why are you completely replacing the entire engine/trans just because of a lifter failure? Is there waaaay more damage then just that? If it’s just a lifter failure, replace the cam and lifters with new or upgraded ones, clean up the engine and be done with it. Plenty of members have had this issue and completely swapping long blocks is way overkill. I’m almost positive the engine blocks are all the exact same. The timing cover from the old engine should swap over to the ‘13 block if you really want to go that far, and you shouldn’t really have an issue using 7 year old accessories. If you really want to replace them, just get a few new replacement accessories. Unless there is a hole in the block, most engine problems can be fixed with new parts and a freshen up.


I Bleed Ram Trucks

Thanks Chris,
Reason for replacement is this engine and trans has 172k miles. Much of which was pulling a 16 and 24ft trailer. The people I bought it from had the lifter problem but drove it anyway until it stopped running on the highway.

My plan is low mileage engine and trans for peace of mind when compared to the cost of full teardown/rebuild or just fixing the lifter issue. If I get the 36k engine I'm planning to actually grab the lifters and swap those in the old one and either sell or build at a later date. Shop charges a lot less to just swap in a motor and that sounds good to me right now.

 

[Hootbro]

One of my local indy shops told me the same thing. It is quicker for them on most vehicles to change the engine as a whole than do head, intake and timing work repairs.