How do Dodge and Chrysler plan on surviving?

[Hooke Road]

The Charger, Challenger, Durango, and 300 are all dead after this year. This leaves the Pacifica and Hornet as the sole offerings. The Pacifica is coming up on 8 years old and Chrysler doesn’t really have much of a household name anymore, so I doubt people are going to flock to it like a Honda or Toyota. The Hornet is reasonable, but I’m not sure any reason to buy one over any other compact SUV, especially when Dodge is known for big horsepower V8s.

Jeep and Ram obviously still exist, of which Ram has competent offerings and Jeep’s higher end offerings are competent (Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, and Wagoneer), but the lower end models are all extremely dated by this point/being discontinued (Compass, Renegade, Cherokee).

What’s their plan? I know they want to do EVs, but that sounds to be years out and their limited model range doesn’t seem like it could sustain them nor their dealer network.

 

[BossHogg]

What’s their plan? I know they want to do EVs, but that sounds to be years out and their limited model range doesn’t seem like it could sustain them nor their dealer network.

I just read of Stellantis automotive layoffs, in the thousands, at Jeep in Toledo and Detroit. I think the real issue is when will vehicles return to affordability both in the cost of the vehicle as well as the cost to finance a vehicle. The problems don't belong to just Dodge or Chrysler. There are a lot of folks underwater with their current vehicle owing much more on them than they are worth. This is after they already carried over negative equity. These folks are not going to be buying soon.

The EV narrative is falling apart, the cost of the vehicle is too high, the recharging infrastructure isn't there, and where charging stations are, the security isn't. Then there are the newer EV issues coming to light, the resale value of a used EV, hot and cold temperature range, and recharging time in extreme climates. I read an article this morning where GM bought out half of their Buick dealerships because they did not want to make the $400K investment to support EVs that GM was demanding.

Where is all this going, I don't know but I would sure like to know so I can invest in the right growth areas.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/gm-buys-out-half-of-its-buick-dealers-6b9eefcc

 

[Scottly]

I see this differently from you. I don't see it as a model issue...I see it as a service issue. You still have people waiting on CP3 diesel pumps for a recall that happened over a year ago. You have a motor that has been barfing camshafts for years and you haven't corrected the issue. You have quality issue after quality issue....Yet you still want us to buy your products?? Service = survival. Tesla rose through the ranks with one model. Chrysler is sinking through the ranks with many. Just my $.02

 

[crash68]

The Hornet is reasonable, but I’m not sure any reason to buy one over any other compact SUV,

Hornets will be getting cheap, there close to a two year supply of them. Unfortunately there's no chance of a Hellcat powered version(still waiting on the Caravan version... LOL).

Provided they're isn't any major design/engineering issues with the Ramcharger, they probably should have Warren Truck start building them. Although there is probably supply chain delays that would slow full out production.

 

[Sherman Bird]

With CAFE standards set at an other-worldly and unrealistic 58 MPG overall fleet average by 2032, it is self-evident as to what is in the offing............

There are just so many BTU's of latent heat energy in a gallon of gasoline, period. All the physics involved in obtaining this inane standard are uber-expensive to even try for. Factor in friction and wind resistance, coupled with weight factors, and there you have it. And those factors don't take into account the heat loss from converting heat energy into kinetic motion/energy. Average heat loss is in the order of 80% in most normally aspirated vehicles.


Way back in 1984, Smokey Yunick experimented with a 4 cylinder Pontiac Fiero in an attempt to recoup lost heat energy and reuse it for efficiency/ improved MPG. 50 thousand dollars later, (in 1984 dollars), he eked out 50 MPG. It just wasn't worth the cost in moola to swing thata way in those days. Nowadays, that is EXACTLY what is being done with technology gleaned from decades old knowledge and a gummint dictating ludicrous standards. Thus, the many fold increase in owning a car is upon us!

Few people are aware of the joint venture of GM and Honda in 1971 in the development of the "CVCC"/ "Vortec" cylinder head design. This was undertake to address then futuristic (1986) emissions standards. The experimental car was a 1971 Chevy big block (454) station wagon. Fuel mileage gains were on the order of going from 9 MPG to the high teens, and emissions being dropped lower than the standards set for 1986. Increased horsepower was a desirable side effect as well.
Together, old man Honda and GM braniacs developed a revolutionary combustion chamber which incorporated high vortices dynamics; shrouding the intake valve coupled with carefully placed spark plugs to prevent spark quench at the plug gap.

These are only 2 examples of what visionaries knew in the olden days. The limiting factors were, and still are: Money, and physics!

Electric vehicles will skew the averages toward that standard, damned the fact that the very electricity used to charge EV's is frequently generated by fossil fueled generators.. AH! The dichotomy! "And the beat goes on"!!!!

 

[DILLIGAF]

Who cares if they go under, I sure dont.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Charger isn't dead. ICE versions are not dead. Only the hemi is 'dead' for the Charger. We've been given a date for fleet sales to reopen.

Chrysler, no idea. It's been a marketing mess trying for a quasi-luxury status while also being the mini-van brand and being a corporate twin to Dodge. Unless you can get China to think they are cool (which is pretty much what keeps Buick relevant) I don't see it doing anything other than tottering toward the history books.

 

[BossHogg]

Who cares if they go under, I sure dont.

There are a lot of folks supporting families working at jobs provided by Stellantis. I betcha they care.

 

[crash68]

There are a lot of folks supporting families working at jobs provided by Stellantis. I betcha they care.

With about 80K employed directly here in the US, not to mention multitudes of indirect people employed at the part suppliers along with other supporting businesses. A loss that big would probably plummet the economy into a major recession.

 

[quickster2]

I think early 2024 will be tough for several auto companies. I would not be surprised if they don't have to write down their inventory in the 1st quarter. The past price increases are astounding.

 

[BossHogg]

I think early 2024 will be tough for several auto companies. I would not be surprised if they don't have to write down their inventory in the 1st quarter. The past price increases are astounding.

I think the whole year is going to be tough and depending on the election, it could get worse or better in the years after 2024.

My wife ordered a 2024 Bronco during the strike. Since autoworkers have returned to work, they finished the 2023 MY build, and 2023 models are still being delivered to dealers. The 2024 Bronco production started a couple of weeks ago. What I am seeing is a large build-up of Ford inventory (likely true for other nameplates). The local Ford dealer has a healthy line of vehicles that at one time took a year or more to get. Lines of the F150 Lighting and Ford Broncos proudly line up on display along the roadway.

She has received a couple of calls from her dealer asking her if she was interested in any of their Bronco inventory but so far she has declined. She ordered her Bronco in Azure Gray Metallic and she isn't budging on the color, it is not a common $1,000 option color.

What is notable is the Broncos showing up on the lots are customer-ordered vehicles that the customers no longer want, they are walking away from them. I'm thinking between the very high interest rates and a loss of Bronco enthusiasm they've found other vehicles or simply decided to keep what they have until this mess settles down.

 

[crash68]

She has received a couple of calls from her dealer asking her if she was interested in any of their Bronco inventory but so far she has declined.

Has she tried replying with a price that hurts them? Could get a Bronco cheap if timed right and the dealership needs to move stock before the end of the month.
Although I do get wanting a particular color but if the $$ savings is big enough, green is a pretty color.. LOL

 

[GTyankee]

Seems like almost every automobile company is buying CLEAN Credits from Tesla.

Those Credits are far from cheap, BUT things may be changing

GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked As Tesla's Secret Source of Cash - Slashdot

For years, Tesla has hauled in revenue by selling credits to other carmakers that needed to offset sales of polluting vehicles to U.S. consumers. While these transactions have largely been shrouded in secrecy, Bloomberg reports that General Motors and Fiat Chrysler have recently disclosed to the...

news.slashdot.org

 

[ANGLICO]

The Charger, Challenger, Durango, and 300 are all dead after this year. This leaves the Pacifica and Hornet as the sole offerings. The Pacifica is coming up on 8 years old and Chrysler doesn’t really have much of a household name anymore, so I doubt people are going to flock to it like a Honda or Toyota. The Hornet is reasonable, but I’m not sure any reason to buy one over any other compact SUV, especially when Dodge is known for big horsepower V8s.

Jeep and Ram obviously still exist, of which Ram has competent offerings and Jeep’s higher end offerings are competent (Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, and Wagoneer), but the lower end models are all extremely dated by this point/being discontinued (Compass, Renegade, Cherokee).

What’s their plan? I know they want to do EVs, but that sounds to be years out and their limited model range doesn’t seem like it could sustain them nor their dealer network.

They will develop and not make a profit on woke approved vehicles, lose money and eventually either fail or revert back to ICE vehicles, if the regulations allow them to.
The current race to Net Zero is the end of this era of big ICE as we know it.

That is my not political summary.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Seems like almost every automobile company is buying CLEAN Credits from Tesla.

Those Credits are far from cheap, BUT things may be changing

GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked As Tesla's Secret Source of Cash - Slashdot

For years, Tesla has hauled in revenue by selling credits to other carmakers that needed to offset sales of polluting vehicles to U.S. consumers. While these transactions have largely been shrouded in secrecy, Bloomberg reports that General Motors and Fiat Chrysler have recently disclosed to the...

news.slashdot.org

That title is click-baity AF. Secret source of cash? Lol, it's common knowledge. There's no 'unmasking' as it's been in the headlines on occasion for at least 4 years or so when FCA bought some $2 billion in credits for US and Europe.

 

[Jerrybob]

Not worried at all......got more than 60 horse drawn vehicles ready to hitch up......I can make any part needed.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Back to the K car?

Where's Lee Iacocca when you need him?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Not worried at all......got more than 60 horse drawn vehicles ready to hitch up......I can make any part needed.View attachment 534083View attachment 534084

Should we start a Harness Oil Thread?

 

[HEMIMANN]

With CAFE standards set at an other-worldly and unrealistic 58 MPG overall fleet average by 2032, it is self-evident as to what is in the offing............

There are just so many BTU's of latent heat energy in a gallon of gasoline, period. All the physics involved in obtaining this inane standard are uber-expensive to even try for. Factor in friction and wind resistance, coupled with weight factors, and there you have it. And those factors don't take into account the heat loss from converting heat energy into kinetic motion/energy. Average heat loss is in the order of 80% in most normally aspirated vehicles.


Way back in 1984, Smokey Yunick experimented with a 4 cylinder Pontiac Fiero in an attempt to recoup lost heat energy and reuse it for efficiency/ improved MPG. 50 thousand dollars later, (in 1984 dollars), he eked out 50 MPG. It just wasn't worth the cost in moola to swing thata way in those days. Nowadays, that is EXACTLY what is being done with technology gleaned from decades old knowledge and a gummint dictating ludicrous standards. Thus, the many fold increase in owning a car is upon us!

Few people are aware of the joint venture of GM and Honda in 1971 in the development of the "CVCC"/ "Vortec" cylinder head design. This was undertake to address then futuristic (1986) emissions standards. The experimental car was a 1971 Chevy big block (454) station wagon. Fuel mileage gains were on the order of going from 9 MPG to the high teens, and emissions being dropped lower than the standards set for 1986. Increased horsepower was a desirable side effect as well.
Together, old man Honda and GM braniacs developed a revolutionary combustion chamber which incorporated high vortices dynamics; shrouding the intake valve coupled with carefully placed spark plugs to prevent spark quench at the plug gap.

These are only 2 examples of what visionaries knew in the olden days. The limiting factors were, and still are: Money, and physics!

Electric vehicles will skew the averages toward that standard, damned the fact that the very electricity used to charge EV's is frequently generated by fossil fueled generators.. AH! The dichotomy! "And the beat goes on"!!!!

I remember CVCC, Vortec, and fast-burn cylinder heads. It didn't cost much more in materials or machining, either. Just the development non-recurring costs. All this other techno-glitz gizmos (VVT, ECM, GDI, MDS, whatevs) is absurd.

 

[HEMIMANN]

The Charger, Challenger, Durango, and 300 are all dead after this year. This leaves the Pacifica and Hornet as the sole offerings. The Pacifica is coming up on 8 years old and Chrysler doesn’t really have much of a household name anymore, so I doubt people are going to flock to it like a Honda or Toyota. The Hornet is reasonable, but I’m not sure any reason to buy one over any other compact SUV, especially when Dodge is known for big horsepower V8s.

Jeep and Ram obviously still exist, of which Ram has competent offerings and Jeep’s higher end offerings are competent (Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, and Wagoneer), but the lower end models are all extremely dated by this point/being discontinued (Compass, Renegade, Cherokee).

What’s their plan? I know they want to do EVs, but that sounds to be years out and their limited model range doesn’t seem like it could sustain them nor their dealer network.

I kept saying, Fiat and now Peugeot has no idea what they're doing in the North American market.

Neither did Daimler-Benz, who lost tens of millions of dollars degrading Chrysler the 1st time they were taken over.