realistic towing within the guidelines

[bisonfan]

Hello All... Hopefully this is the right section... I am looking to purchase my first pickup however I have a few questions about realistic towing within the publish towing guidelines.

My truck of interest is a 2016 outdoorsman CC/3.6l/3.55 gears/17" tires. I have used towcalculator.com to determine if my anticipated trailer/cargo are within the legal limits. The worse case towing scenario would be a 16' flat bed 4 place snowmobile trailer with 4 atv's. Trailer weight with cargo would be approximately 4000 pounds. Truck cargo/people would be 1050 pounds. Per towclalculator.com this setup would be 41% under the towing capacity, 1% under the GVWR and 19% under the GCWR. The anticipated route would include some minor hills but on interest 94 in MN. Max tow speed would be 65-70. This trip would only happen 1-2 times a year.

The more likely trailering would be pulling a 2 place snowmobile trailer with 3 atvs on it. In this scenario, it would be 74% under towing capacity, 6% under GVWR and 38% under the GCWR. I anticipate that the truck would handle this scenario flawlessly. I have trailered the same setup with my 3.6L Dodge Grand Caravan and not had any issues.

The truck primarily would be a daily driver hauling 1-5 people to get groceries, school, work etc... so most of it's life would be empty.

The question becomes how much of a factor would wind create for me while towing in the worse case scenario? Can the pentastar handle 3-4K rpms for 1-3 hours while towing to make the worse case scenario happen? Would this combination empty be same or worse empty MPG as 3.21 gear 5.7L?

 

[Loudram]

I don't see any problem. The pentastar is a solid engine but check the numbers for the specific truck you will buy. Especially the payload. That's varies from truck to truck depending on what options it has on it and what extra stuff the previous owner put on it.

As far as wind goes it shouldn't be that much of a factor. Maybe a slight one but no where near what my travel trailer would be.

The MPG's will be better in the V6 but by how much, I don't know. My truck has a Hemi with a 3.92 rear and I get around 9 to 11 mpg when I'm towing. Low 20's on the highway and mid to high teens around town IF I keep my foot out of it. Most of the time I can't.

Edit: As a side note, payload if often misunderstood. There is a sticker on every truck that says cargo capacity shall not exceed .... That is your payload. That is how the truck came from the factory. Any dealer add ons or owner add ons such as a bed liner, step bars, hitch receiver, tonneau cover will take away from the payload as will all passengers and gear in the truck. All fluids including a full tank of gas is already factored in into the payload. No need to deduct for that.

 

[Irishthreeper]

Good advice/opinion from Loudram. I would only add get it all weighed and verify what your rear axle is carrying. Unless you are on an incline I would think your RPM will be more like 2400 to 2800. Keep your speed down to 65-ish.

 

[bisonfan]

Thanks to both of you for weighing in on this for me. I very much appreciate the input!

 

[csuder99]

As I used to tow a 6400 lbs travel trailer with a similar pentastar/3.55 truck I'm somewhat qualified . The truck got around with the trailer just fine, a lighter flatbed with less wind drag will be even easier. It did rev high on long grades (I live at the foot of the Cascade mountains) which can be somewhat disconcerting. But then, towing the same trailer over Slumgullion Pass in CO with a Hemi had it work pretty hard as well

More generally, manufacturer tow ratings are maximum *weight* ratings without any consideration of the trailer type. A tall and wide trailer like a travel or box trailer is going to put more load on the drive train than a dump trailer or flatbed.

Edit: Also, as a daily driver my truck was around 20 mpg which is pretty darn good for a full size truck. My current 2500 Hemi is around 13......

 

[670hoth]

I don't see any problem. The pentastar is a solid engine but check the numbers for the specific truck you will buy. Especially the payload. That's varies from truck to truck depending on what options it has on it and what extra stuff the previous owner put on it.

As far as wind goes it shouldn't be that much of a factor. Maybe a slight one but no where near what my travel trailer would be.

The MPG's will be better in the V6 but by how much, I don't know. My truck has a Hemi with a 3.92 rear and I get around 9 to 11 mpg when I'm towing. Low 20's on the highway and mid to high teens around town IF I keep my foot out of it. Most of the time I can't.

Edit: As a side note, payload if often misunderstood. There is a sticker on every truck that says cargo capacity shall not exceed .... That is your payload. That is how the truck came from the factory. Any dealer add ons or owner add ons such as a bed liner, step bars, hitch receiver, tonneau cover will take away from the payload as will all passengers and gear in the truck. All fluids including a full tank of gas is already factored in into the payload. No need to deduct for that.

Loudram, I have essentially the same truck as you except its a 2017. I will be towing a camper similar to your this summer. I think the dry weight is 4700 and I will probably tow it with the tanks empty and very little weight added to it. The tongue weight is about 600 lb. Also, I do have a weight distributing hitch with sway control(the type without chains). I am just curious if you have done anything such as air bags, heavy sway bar, etc... to pull that? Thanks

 

[Loudram]

Loudram, I have essentially the same truck as you except its a 2017. I will be towing a camper similar to your this summer. I think the dry weight is 4700 and I will probably tow it with the tanks empty and very little weight added to it. The tongue weight is about 600 lb. Also, I do have a weight distributing hitch with sway control(the type without chains). I am just curious if you have done anything such as air bags, heavy sway bar, etc... to pull that? Thanks

The only thing I did was upgrade my springs to Tuftruck 1211's and that was because of my previous trailer not this one. My tongue weight dry is around 625 but loaded is around 800. This pic is with some gear in the front pass thru but not fully loaded for camping.

 

[SitKneelBend]

Thanks to both of you for weighing in on this for me. I very much appreciate the input!

I think you'll be fine with this setup. I would only recommend the Hemi or Eco Diesel in this scenario if you were going to be toeing this very frequently (like a fee times a week) or if you lived in a mountainous or hilly area.

 

[bisonfan]

I think you'll be fine with this setup. I would only recommend the Hemi or Eco Diesel in this scenario if you were going to be toeing this very frequently (like a fee times a week) or if you lived in a mountainous or hilly area.

I noticed in your signature that you have a 2014 3.6l. What kind of MPG do you see out of the truck with 60 city 40 highway usage?

 

[SitKneelBend]

I noticed in your signature that you have a 2014 3.6l. What kind of MPG do you see out of the truck with 60 city 40 highway usage?

Around 17 in winter and 18 in the summer.

 

[2020PW]

Don’t be in the situation of “I wish I had more power”, pay less now or pay more later trying to get more power. If your going to tow or haul any weight get a 3/4 ton. And don’t worry about it. Wife has a 3.6 in a wrangler with 8 speed, I wouldn’t recommend a truck with it.

 

[crash68]

If your going to tow or haul any weight get a 3/4 ton.

For what the OP is looking to tow..why stop at a 3/4 ton

 

[bisonfan]

Well I am still undecided as to what the right thing to do is for the following reasons:
1) overall capacity - I currently do everything with my 2012 grand caravan - I will actually will miss that when it goes as I have hauled 12' trim pieces inside of it and just about everything else in between. I know that a truck will not be so friendly when hauling long trim pieces. However it will add additional items that I currently don't do with my van.
2) Will I get the rated MPG that they say when I have 4 adults, 1 teenager, a 15lb dog and luggage in the truck cruising 75 mph down interstate.
3) My family had a 94 3.9L single cab 8' box with 3.21 gears and 5 speed manual. It was a dog that couldn't even use 5th gear. 4th gear was cruising gear (1:1). Reading some of the comments on the forum about 6th gear being "unicorn gear" has brought back a number of memories of "wishing we had the 318" sort of deal.
4)Towing - yes the 3.55 will be better however Torque is Torque and the 3.6L is low... you can't over come that but the 8 speed does its best to mask it. I currently tow the same setup with my 2012 DGC and don't have any issues. The engine is the strong point when towing with that... gear ratio, drive train (FWD) and suspension are the issue on that. I have only once experienced a slight tail waging the dog scenario, I just moved an ATV forward a bit, problem solved...

Things I do like.
Reliability -I have put nearly 180K miles in real life on 2 pentastar engines. Between my 2012 DGC and 2015 T&C I have been reliable engines for me. I anticipate another would be just as well. Timely oil changes and overall good maintenance and they seem to last. My comfort level with them is a positive
Ride Quality- The rams seem to ride nicer than the silverado's (haven't driven an f150 yet)
Price/mileage - The ram trucks seem to have a better price/mileage ratio than GM and Ford, not sure that translates into build quality.
Features - it seems that the Rams have more features at a lower price point

In the west central area of MN, I have found 4 trucks that are 3.6l/3.55/Crew Cab. (A 2017 Big Horn that I drove and had the oil filter housing crack and dump its oil on the test drive, the other is a 2017 Express, not an option as I need power driver seat) That leaves a 2017 with 79k miles and a 2016 with 65K miles. They are both spec'd the same with a few minor distances.

The 2016 has had the oil filter housing replaced, new tires, alignment, brakes and rotors, 1 caliper and windshield replaced. The 2017 has not had that level of reconditioning at the dealer.

Both trucks are 2 hours away from me. I am hesitant to go look at them as I drove 3 hours to look at the 2017 that puked oil and it left a bad taste in my mouth about driving all over for a truck I am uncertain if I should go 3.6 or 5.7.

I am considering looking at a f150 2.7l CC just to see if it would suit me better.

Paralysis by analysis sucks but I only get 1 shot to buy so I want to make sure it is everything I want and then some.

 

[Loudram]

You have the right idea. Take your time and wait for your truck but think about this. In the future you might want to tow larger/ heavier, give yourself the room to grow. A V6 may not have that room.

 

[SitKneelBend]

Well I am still undecided as to what the right thing to do is for the following reasons:
1) overall capacity - I currently do everything with my 2012 grand caravan - I will actually will miss that when it goes as I have hauled 12' trim pieces inside of it and just about everything else in between. I know that a truck will not be so friendly when hauling long trim pieces. However it will add additional items that I currently don't do with my van.
2) Will I get the rated MPG that they say when I have 4 adults, 1 teenager, a 15lb dog and luggage in the truck cruising 75 mph down interstate.
3) My family had a 94 3.9L single cab 8' box with 3.21 gears and 5 speed manual. It was a dog that couldn't even use 5th gear. 4th gear was cruising gear (1:1). Reading some of the comments on the forum about 6th gear being "unicorn gear" has brought back a number of memories of "wishing we had the 318" sort of deal.
4)Towing - yes the 3.55 will be better however Torque is Torque and the 3.6L is low... you can't over come that but the 8 speed does its best to mask it. I currently tow the same setup with my 2012 DGC and don't have any issues. The engine is the strong point when towing with that... gear ratio, drive train (FWD) and suspension are the issue on that. I have only once experienced a slight tail waging the dog scenario, I just moved an ATV forward a bit, problem solved...

Things I do like.
Reliability -I have put nearly 180K miles in real life on 2 pentastar engines. Between my 2012 DGC and 2015 T&C I have been reliable engines for me. I anticipate another would be just as well. Timely oil changes and overall good maintenance and they seem to last. My comfort level with them is a positive
Ride Quality- The rams seem to ride nicer than the silverado's (haven't driven an f150 yet)
Price/mileage - The ram trucks seem to have a better price/mileage ratio than GM and Ford, not sure that translates into build quality.
Features - it seems that the Rams have more features at a lower price point

In the west central area of MN, I have found 4 trucks that are 3.6l/3.55/Crew Cab. (A 2017 Big Horn that I drove and had the oil filter housing crack and dump its oil on the test drive, the other is a 2017 Express, not an option as I need power driver seat) That leaves a 2017 with 79k miles and a 2016 with 65K miles. They are both spec'd the same with a few minor distances.

The 2016 has had the oil filter housing replaced, new tires, alignment, brakes and rotors, 1 caliper and windshield replaced. The 2017 has not had that level of reconditioning at the dealer.

Both trucks are 2 hours away from me. I am hesitant to go look at them as I drove 3 hours to look at the 2017 that puked oil and it left a bad taste in my mouth about driving all over for a truck I am uncertain if I should go 3.6 or 5.7.

I am considering looking at a f150 2.7l CC just to see if it would suit me better.

Paralysis by analysis sucks but I only get 1 shot to buy so I want to make sure it is everything I want and then some.

Me personally, I would have used that test drive to see if I could get a great deal with an extended warranty. That oil filter housing is going to be a problem on nearly every one in my opinion. I understand that leaving a bad taste though.

 

[bisonfan]

Me personally, I would have used that test drive to see if I could get a great deal with an extended warranty. That oil filter housing is going to be a problem on nearly every one in my opinion. I understand that leaving a bad taste though.

I understand, the engine did not sound right when they start it up cold. The valve train was clanking something fierce. I was skeptical about the engine before I even sat in the drivers seat.

 

[SitKneelBend]

I understand, the engine did not sound right when they start it up cold. The valve train was clanking something fierce. I was skeptical about the engine before I even sat in the drivers seat.

Fair enough, the two coupled together would make me skeptical of the dealer in general too. Fool me once...

 

[bisonfan]

So I am considering a trip to look at the 2016. It is an outdoorsman with 65K miles with factory 17" tire setup. Per a gear ratio calculation the 17" tires with the 3.55 gear set would give the greatest mechanical advantage. At 75 MPH, rpms would be 1900 in 8th 2400 in 7th which from my experience is a good spot for the pentastar for cruising. As far as towing 6th gear would be 2200-2400 between 65 and 70mph.

I now from personal experience in my 2012 DGC that I have pulled 2000 pounds with the engine in 5th (1:1) and it just played with the trailer and weight. Maybe It would be better than what I think...

 

[farout75]

Hello All... Hopefully this is the right section... I am looking to purchase my first pickup however I have a few questions about realistic towing within the publish towing guidelines.

My truck of interest is a 2016 outdoorsman CC/3.6l/3.55 gears/17" tires. I have used towcalculator.com to determine if my anticipated trailer/cargo are within the legal limits. The worse case towing scenario would be a 16' flat bed 4 place snowmobile trailer with 4 atv's. Trailer weight with cargo would be approximately 4000 pounds. Truck cargo/people would be 1050 pounds. Per towclalculator.com this setup would be 41% under the towing capacity, 1% under the GVWR and 19% under the GCWR. The anticipated route would include some minor hills but on interest 94 in MN. Max tow speed would be 65-70. This trip would only happen 1-2 times a year.

The more likely trailering would be pulling a 2 place snowmobile trailer with 3 atvs on it. In this scenario, it would be 74% under towing capacity, 6% under GVWR and 38% under the GCWR. I anticipate that the truck would handle this scenario flawlessly. I have trailered the same setup with my 3.6L Dodge Grand Caravan and not had any issues.

The truck primarily would be a daily driver hauling 1-5 people to get groceries, school, work etc... so most of it's life would be empty.

The question becomes how much of a factor would wind create for me while towing in the worse case scenario? Can the pentastar handle 3-4K rpms for 1-3 hours while towing to make the worse case scenario happen? Would this combination empty be same or worse empty MPG as 3.21 gear 5.7L?

The 3.6 is a low torque engine 269 LBS which makes any RAM with that 3.6 a lightweight tower. I had two RAM 1500 with the 3.6, but one with the 3:55 and one with the 3:21. It makes veyt little difference, there is just not enough torque with 269 lbs of torque. I just don't like the 3.6 in a 5,300 LB truck.

 

[Danny5]

I am going to echo the sentiment here that if you want to tow, then get the V8. This is the case of being a little too big is never a bad thing.

We had a 16 1500 with the 5.7 and 3.92. We were at 80-95% of our capacities with our trailer. Within limits, but barely. We upgraded to a truck where we are at 40-50% of our capacities, and its night and day difference.

If gas mileage will be part of any equation, then you'll need to look at the Eco-Diesel. Its a good compromise between the Pentastar and the Hemi.