realistic towing within the guidelines

[Kukailimoku]

I am an infrequent tower, but I'll add my two cents anyway. Because internet.

Begin from a position of always buy as heavy a rig as you can afford/always buy as much overmatch (overweight) over your cargo as you can afford.

Having said that, I have two experiences that seem to contradict each other:

2005 Ram 1500 SLT 4*4:
Towed two-horse trailer with one or two horses several times, Oahu, so up and down some significant hills, but only for short duration. Also pulled multiple stuck vehicles out of beach sand. In all cases I never even felt the load. Amazing truck, superb torque, great tranny, awesome engine, nice suspension.

2020 Ram 1500 Laramie 4*4:
towed a jeep wrangler JK on a U-Haul rental auto-carrier. Maryland to Pennsylvania. Not dramatic hills as in Hawaii, but longer durations up and down hills than in Hawaii.
DEFINITELY felt the load this time.

I ain't done the math on if a loaded JK on a beefy overengineered U-Haul trailer combined weighs more than a typical Quarterhorse in an aluminum two-horse trailer, but it sure as heck seemed as if the load was worse (OR THE 2020 WEAKER(?)) with the jeep+U-Haul.

i am NOT saying I felt unsafe in the 2020 Ram plus jeep/U-Haul combo, but I definitely felt "weaker" than in the 05 Ram and horses. Enough that I gave it extra conservative driving consideration above what I already do when trailering.

both trucks had the Hemi gasoline and auto trans of their time.

the 05 was a medium crew cab, the 20 has a bigger fully sized crew cab. The 20 is overall probably haevier stock, so maybe some of it's useful load was used up by its own self.
?


Gwt as much over capacity as you can afford. Play it safe.

 

[bisonfan]

So my chevrolet dealer has 2 ecodeisels in stock, used of course. I have just heard such horror stories about the engine that I pretty much wrote them off as never buy sort of deal. 1 is a 2015 with 92K miles the other a 2015 with 12x,*** miles. Having been around the 7.3L powerstroke, I realize that they need to be worked. Not sure how an ecodeisel would fare in my situation.

 

[TomB 1269]

I am an infrequent tower, but I'll add my two cents anyway. Because internet.

Begin from a position of always buy as heavy a rig as you can afford/always buy as much overmatch (overweight) over your cargo as you can afford.

Having said that, I have two experiences that seem to contradict each other:

2005 Ram 1500 SLT 4*4:
Towed two-horse trailer with one or two horses several times, Oahu, so up and down some significant hills, but only for short duration. Also pulled multiple stuck vehicles out of beach sand. In all cases I never even felt the load. Amazing truck, superb torque, great tranny, awesome engine, nice suspension.

2020 Ram 1500 Laramie 4*4:
towed a jeep wrangler JK on a U-Haul rental auto-carrier. Maryland to Pennsylvania. Not dramatic hills as in Hawaii, but longer durations up and down hills than in Hawaii.
DEFINITELY felt the load this time.

I ain't done the math on if a loaded JK on a beefy overengineered U-Haul trailer combined weighs more than a typical Quarterhorse in an aluminum two-horse trailer, but it sure as heck seemed as if the load was worse (OR THE 2020 WEAKER(?)) with the jeep+U-Haul.

i am NOT saying I felt unsafe in the 2020 Ram plus jeep/U-Haul combo, but I definitely felt "weaker" than in the 05 Ram and horses. Enough that I gave it extra conservative driving consideration above what I already do when trailering.

both trucks had the Hemi gasoline and auto trans of their time.

the 05 was a medium crew cab, the 20 has a bigger fully sized crew cab. The 20 is overall probably haevier stock, so maybe some of it's useful load was used up by its own self.
?


Gwt as much over capacity as you can afford. Play it safe.

Absolutely a huge difference. Aluminum trailer was what under 2000#s, and much more aerodynamic than a jeep sitting 3&1/2 feet of the ground with a fronted more like a brick than a wedge. Also horse trailer was single or dual axle. I know most tend to be dual which means they do not transfer as much tongue load on to truck by design.
Now the UHaul trailer, heavy as hell to start, If I remember correctly auto transport is around 2500# and jeep is over 3500#, and the jeep sits forward on the trailer making it tongue heavy.
So even if horse trailer and horse weighed in at the same as auto transport and jeep the aero drag would add a ton to it and make it feel much heavier pulling, and the truck would strain more.
Buffalo to Albany, NY with Auto transport, and 1997 GMC SONOMA with factory lowered suspension, i.e. hell of a lot better aero then a jeep on the trailer, with 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi. The new one has a lot better transmission and makes towing much easier.

 

[tron67j]

The key take-aways from here:

1) Only look at the payload and related numbers on the door jamb of the truck you are interested in, ignore charts. Only matters how the actual truck you buy was built.
2) The more weight you carry/tow the bigger the engine and the higher level (2500 maybe) you need.
3) Know exactly the tongue and GV weight of your trailer. My experience with helping others over the years. They always run out of payload capacity before they run out of GCWR for their trailer weight.

Personal on gearing in rear end, I shoot for near but not at highest ratio (have 3.73) to give me decent towing but not crush me for my daily driving. Gears, I ran a 2500 5.7 5 speed and now a 6.4 6 speed, never wished either was 8 speed. Forget MPG, it isn't why we buy trucks and if you ask 10 people you will get 10 answers. That is what econo-boxes are for.

Good luck

 

[bisonfan]

So I changed my search to either a 5.7l Ram 1500 or an aluminum body f150 with either 3.5l or 5.0l.

There is a 2015 ram 1500 5.7l with 61k at a dealer about an hour away that caught my eye. Dealer sent a video today of cold startup (35 degrees) and it was ticking pretty bad. my guess is that it is a manifold leak.

So my question is, how common are the following issues?

1) manifold bolt repair
2) TPIM repair/issues
3) cam lobe/cam rocker failure
4) water pump failure/leak

The dealer is looking into the ticking sound to see if it is manifold or something else. I would request it be repaired as a condition of purchase. Per an internet search, it appears that refacing the warped manifolds are a better repair then installing new manifolds.

 

[SitKneelBend]

So I changed my search to either a 5.7l Ram 1500 or an aluminum body f150 with either 3.5l or 5.0l.

There is a 2015 ram 1500 5.7l with 61k at a dealer about an hour away that caught my eye. Dealer sent a video today of cold startup (35 degrees) and it was ticking pretty bad. my guess is that it is a manifold leak.

So my question is, how common are the following issues?

1) manifold bolt repair
2) TPIM repair/issues
3) cam lobe/cam rocker failure
4) water pump failure/leak

The dealer is looking into the ticking sound to see if it is manifold or something else. I would request it be repaired as a condition of purchase. Per an internet search, it appears that refacing the warped manifolds are a better repair then installing new manifolds.

If I'm not mistaken number 1 is common on the 5.7. Expect it the same way you expect the oil filter housing to break on a 3.6.

 

[TomB 1269]

Number 1 is common on Ford, RAM and Chevy........
2 and 4 are not as common as you think
3 is really a hit and miss, depends a lot on use and how its maintained.
My 2 cents is its an idle issue due to valve train geometry that results in high deposit build up on lifter.
Minimize idling (hot idling particularly) and change out oil regularly (I am not a fan of 10000 mile oil change, I change every 6 months regardless of mileage) and have Blackstone analysis oil to get a base line (3 or 4 samples) and then follow up with periodic checks at least.
The oil analysis will tell you if you are shedding material from the cam.

 

[bisonfan]

Dealer called me back this am. The 2015 Ram 1500 needs new manifolds. Quoted work is $800.

 

[dhay13]

Dealer called me back this am. The 2015 Ram 1500 needs new manifolds. Quoted work is $800.

Tell them to pay for the repair. Was/is it their plan to sell a broken truck?

 

[bisonfan]

A couple of updates... I spent yesterday 4/23 looking at trucks. I drove 90 miles to the twin cities to look at a truck, was already to purchase however the dealer would not budge off of KBB value for my trade. This was half of what I was offered two days prior. Told me they would wholesale my trade and therefore couldn't work with me. On my way home I looked at 3 other trucks. 2nd one was smoked in, immediately walked away. 3rd and 4th trucks had 82k miles with 3100-3700 run time hours with roughly 1000-1700 hours idle time. Between that and the odd shaking and noises they were making I walked away.

The ram 1500 with exhaust manifold issue will not be fixed until mid week.

In this whole, process I have driven 12 trucks of which I wanted to buy 3. Due to circumstances in negotiations I have obviously not obtained one.

I am rethinking everything about buying a vehicle right now.

 

[Fediej]

A couple of updates... I spent yesterday 4/23 looking at trucks. I drove 90 miles to the twin cities to look at a truck, was already to purchase however the dealer would not budge off of KBB value for my trade. This was half of what I was offered two days prior. Told me they would wholesale my trade and therefore couldn't work with me. On my way home I looked at 3 other trucks. 2nd one was smoked in, immediately walked away. 3rd and 4th trucks had 82k miles with 3100-3700 run time hours with roughly 1000-1700 hours idle time. Between that and the odd shaking and noises they were making I walked away.

The ram 1500 with exhaust manifold issue will not be fixed until mid week.

In this whole, process I have driven 12 trucks of which I wanted to buy 3. Due to circumstances in negotiations I have obviously not obtained one.

I am rethinking everything about buying a vehicle right now.

The dealerships can really take the fun out of buying a vehicle. I wouldn't right off the EcoDiesels entirely. They may not be rated to pull quite as much but in the real world it might just meet your towing needs. Also, as blasphemous as it may be to say on this forum, the 3.5L EcoBoost is a pretty quick and capable truck. It was our 2nd choice if we hadn't found the Ram that we did.

 

[SitKneelBend]

A couple of updates... I spent yesterday 4/23 looking at trucks. I drove 90 miles to the twin cities to look at a truck, was already to purchase however the dealer would not budge off of KBB value for my trade. This was half of what I was offered two days prior. Told me they would wholesale my trade and therefore couldn't work with me. On my way home I looked at 3 other trucks. 2nd one was smoked in, immediately walked away. 3rd and 4th trucks had 82k miles with 3100-3700 run time hours with roughly 1000-1700 hours idle time. Between that and the odd shaking and noises they were making I walked away.

The ram 1500 with exhaust manifold issue will not be fixed until mid week.

In this whole, process I have driven 12 trucks of which I wanted to buy 3. Due to circumstances in negotiations I have obviously not obtained one.

I am rethinking everything about buying a vehicle right now.

Sounds like you're doing it right in my opinion. If you didn't do all you're doing now you might have regrets later.

 

[Tim7139]

Will I get the rated MPG that they say when I have 4 adults, 1 teenager, a 15lb dog and luggage in the truck cruising 75 mph down interstate.

No. The additional speed and weight will reduce mileage.

EPA uses driver only, 60Mph peak with 48.3Mph average, and other conditions you won't match.

 

[bisonfan]

Well I went and looked at the ram 1500 with the exhaust manifold repair. The dealer did not perform the repair correctly. They replaced the 4 broken studs and replaced the gasket (they did not replace the manifold or bring the warped manifold to true flat). It still ticked upon start up. I test drove the truck and found that the mechanic failed to attach a vacuum line of some nature as a black tube was making a popping sound and it clearly had a connector on it. It appeared it attached under the brake booster possibly. I ended up walking away from the deal as I knew that the leaking issue was going to come back again soon(as it was never really gone). I explained to the salesman that I was walking away from the deal because of it. He was shocked. He thought he had it in the bag...

 

[SitKneelBend]

Well I went and looked at the ram 1500 with the exhaust manifold repair. The dealer did not perform the repair correctly. They replaced the 4 broken studs and replaced the gasket (they did not replace the manifold or bring the warped manifold to true flat). It still ticked upon start up. I test drove the truck and found that the mechanic failed to attach a vacuum line of some nature as a black tube was making a popping sound and it clearly had a connector on it. It appeared it attached under the brake booster possibly. I ended up walking away from the deal as I knew that the leaking issue was going to come back again soon(as it was never really gone). I explained to the salesman that I was walking away from the deal because of it. He was shocked. He thought he had it in the bag...

Good call...

 

[Loudram]

It may seem frustrating but when you finally find your truck it'll all be worth it.

 

[SitKneelBend]

It may seem frustrating but when you finally find your truck it'll all be worth it.

Agreed, the only thing I would change about my truck is crew over quad, but I always had a quad cab and jumped when I found one. Then I had kids...

 

[bisonfan]

So I am considering two trucks that fit into my budget.

First truck is a 2016 outdoorsman 3.6l/CC/3.55/17". It is optioned up nicely with heated seats, large touchscreen dash with the electronic gauges, running boards, 10-way power seat, tonneau cover, 4wd auto, and mud flaps. The oil filter housing was replaced by the selling dealer along with 4 tires, new brake pads and rotors and one caliper. The truck has 65,000 miles. Carfax history oil change history is sporadic but does show a few oil changes. This was a lease truck and than purchased by the second owner.

The second truck is a 2016 5.7l/3.21/cc/20" express. (exact same color scheme as loud rams truck) This truck is about as bare bones as you can get. It does not have a 10 way power seat, I am looking into upgrading this with a frame from a salvage yard and having a local upholstery transfer the foam/skins to the power seat frame. I am 6'3" my wife is 5'4" so we need adjustability. This truck would need mudflaps and running boards. This truck has 39,*** miles on it. Between adding running boards and power seat cost, I would have to add another $500-$750 on top of the price of the truck. Carfax shows oil change history between 1500 and 5000 mile intervals. This truck appears to have live as a city hopper and nothing more.

These two trucks are within $500 of each other and about 45 minutes apart but 2-2.5 hours from me. Both trucks spent most if not all of their life in either Fargo or Grand Forks ND. The plus side is that ND does not use salt on roads in the winter thus they shouldn't be rust buckets. Both are two previous owners given their age and trading habits of most, this seems to be pretty common.

I have not towed a trailer since August 2021, than it was a 8.5x10 aluminum flatbed snowmobile trailer with 1500 lbs of atv and another 200 lbs of gear and two adult males. My tow vehicle was a 2012 dodge grand caravan. It had no issues with towing it at 65 mph. Only concern is the handling ability of the van without the Nivomat struts to firm up the ride.

The remainder of the year will be driving to work 8 miles away (two stop signs and varying degree of speed), getting groceries, trips to menards/home depot, running kids to school functions 15 miles away, some traveling to dr. appointments between 60 & 90 miles away or visiting family that live between 2 & 4 hours away. We would still use our T&C for most traveling.

Not sure where I am going with this, if nothing else to write it down and see the facts as they are...

 

[SitKneelBend]

So I am considering two trucks that fit into my budget.

First truck is a 2016 outdoorsman 3.6l/CC/3.55/17". It is optioned up nicely with heated seats, large touchscreen dash with the electronic gauges, running boards, 10-way power seat, tonneau cover, 4wd auto, and mud flaps. The oil filter housing was replaced by the selling dealer along with 4 tires, new brake pads and rotors and one caliper. The truck has 65,000 miles. Carfax history oil change history is sporadic but does show a few oil changes. This was a lease truck and than purchased by the second owner.

The second truck is a 2016 5.7l/3.21/cc/20" express. (exact same color scheme as loud rams truck) This truck is about as bare bones as you can get. It does not have a 10 way power seat, I am looking into upgrading this with a frame from a salvage yard and having a local upholstery transfer the foam/skins to the power seat frame. I am 6'3" my wife is 5'4" so we need adjustability. This truck would need mudflaps and running boards. This truck has 39,*** miles on it. Between adding running boards and power seat cost, I would have to add another $500-$750 on top of the price of the truck. Carfax shows oil change history between 1500 and 5000 mile intervals. This truck appears to have live as a city hopper and nothing more.

These two trucks are within $500 of each other and about 45 minutes apart but 2-2.5 hours from me. Both trucks spent most if not all of their life in either Fargo or Grand Forks ND. The plus side is that ND does not use salt on roads in the winter thus they shouldn't be rust buckets. Both are two previous owners given their age and trading habits of most, this seems to be pretty common.

I have not towed a trailer since August 2021, than it was a 8.5x10 aluminum flatbed snowmobile trailer with 1500 lbs of atv and another 200 lbs of gear and two adult males. My tow vehicle was a 2012 dodge grand caravan. It had no issues with towing it at 65 mph. Only concern is the handling ability of the van without the Nivomat struts to firm up the ride.

The remainder of the year will be driving to work 8 miles away (two stop signs and varying degree of speed), getting groceries, trips to menards/home depot, running kids to school functions 15 miles away, some traveling to dr. appointments between 60 & 90 miles away or visiting family that live between 2 & 4 hours away. We would still use our T&C for most traveling.

Not sure where I am going with this, if nothing else to write it down and see the facts as they are...

I haven't driven one but I hear people aren't fans of the 3.21 gears with any engine.

 

[bisonfan]

Well I am sure I will get ribbed for this but I pulled the trigger on the Ram 1500 3.6l outdoorsman this afternoon. I absolutely love it so far and am very happy with my purchase. It has all the bells and whistles that I wanted and them some. It will fit all my needs perfectly. I will live with it's towing characteristics the 1-3 times a year I need it.