Security Issues?

[THRobinson]

Still trying to sort out the startup/shutdown issue on my Dodge. Weather finally getting better here in Canada so, can start getting into it a bit more... I work outside in the yard so, -15 degrees and snow, not a great time to troubleshoot.

Anyways, long story short... I start the car, it runs perfectly fine for 2-3 seconds, then dies. No smoke, coughing, sputtering, nothing. Runs fine then shuts off as if I turned the key off.

Tried a few things, stuff from here and stuff from YouTube... one thing I read somewhere was that it could be the security. When it does die, there is the red LED light on the cluster that's on... no markings/words on it. Here's an image of it I found on Google, not my cluster but same thing.

LINK

Could it be starting, then a security issue shutting it off?

My last car was a 2002 Impala, and had numerous Passlock issues. Common issue with those Chev's 2000-2005. Friend had it, cost about $600CAD to fix, 2yrs later, happened again. I avoided that and got a reprogrammed ECU, which made the car run a bit better and guy was nice enough to program it to bypass Passlock errors. $100 permanent fix.

Could a similar thing be happening with the Dodge? On the Chev it wouldn't allow it to start at all. Not sure what/how the Dodge security works...

 

[Redtruck-VA]

Sounds like SKIM activated. Problem if I remember correctly is after several failed starts it locks the pcm and won't crank.
Are you using the security key (fat grey one?)
Immobilizer unplugged or failed, located at the ignition switch with a ring around the switch to recognise the key. With the key (chip) inserted. The immobilizer senses the key (pin). If recognised, the immobilizer sends a code to the pcm to run. All pcm's start as SKIM capable. Once a pcm senses an immobilizer is present the pcm becomes SKIM active. So do not swap pcm's unless you know the security status of the vehicle.

 

[HemiLonestar]

Sounds like SKIM activated. Problem if I remember correctly is after several failed starts it locks the pcm and won't crank.
Are you using the security key (fat grey one?)
Immobilizer unplugged or failed, located at the ignition switch with a ring around the switch to recognise the key. With the key (chip) inserted. The immobilizer senses the key (pin). If recognised, the immobilizer sends a code to the pcm to run. All pcm's start as SKIM capable. Once a pcm senses an immobilizer is present the pcm becomes SKIM active. So do not swap pcm's unless you know the security status of the vehicle.

Bingo

 

[THRobinson]

Yup fat grey one... was getting to where every single time I got in the truck, I'd get 1-3 starts that run a few seconds and shuts off... but lately, past 5 times I tried, I put the key in/out/in/jiggle and make sure it's in there and trucks starts and runs fine.

Not 100% certain this is "fixing" the issue, since I've gone a week without issue before and it later comes back again.

That said, I'm having no 'no crank' issues. Impala when the Passlock issues happened, I'd turn the key and get nothing at all, no crank or anything. Again, with the Dodge, it cranks and starts/runs absolutely fine. Then shuts off. No noises/smoke/shudders just turns off as if I turned the key off. But, it does crank every time without issues.

Hmm, found this on the JEEP site

"In addition, if you attempt to start your vehicle during the programming process, the vehicle will deem the key invalid and turn the engine off after a few seconds."

I'm not programming but, that does seem to match the issue... shuts engine off after a few seconds.

 

[Redtruck-VA]

I'm calling this a SKIM problem. If you start the truck using a non-chip key it should start and run for a few seconds and shut down as you have discribed. Including having the red light.

 

[THRobinson]

Hoping so... been chasing this issue around for a while... Dodge dealer told me to replace the plugs, I asked why, they said they couldn't duplicate the issue so change the plugs, old truck probably old plugs... then wanted $470CAD to do it. Didn't test fuel pressure or even look at the old plugs.

Been kinda slowly troubleshooting what I could during winter because no garage and a foot of snow.

So... any suggestions what the next step it? Take it out, clean contacts, stick it back?

 

[Redtruck-VA]

Do you have a spare key? If so try it and see how it works. If not, have a non chip key made and try it. The non chip should duplicate your problem. My guess is key or immobilizer is causing the problem.

 

[THRobinson]

Will do... I have a spare one, has the Dodge logo on it so hopefully means chipped... the Impala I had you could essentially see where the chip thing was, so, only guessing the spare is chipped.

 

[Redtruck-VA]

Typically if it is grey it has a chip. Black and thinner non-chip.

 

[THRobinson]

Hmm... may be a non-chip, pretty sure black but, at work so... will give it a try tonight.

 

[magman777]

I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. I've been searching for a thread with this issue but never found one. Mine will do this about once a week, When I start my truck in the morning, I stand next to it and slip the fob in and turn it on. I always wait for the bell to quit dinging, and then crank it. I do this so it can run a couple minuets before I take off for work. Sometimes it won't do it for a week or two. Sometimes it does it a couple days a week. Never does it anywhere but home after sitting all night. Most of the time the second start stays running, but there have been times it will do it two or three times before it stays running.

 

[THRobinson]

Mine was fixed a while then came back... not sure if same issue or a new one.

1st issue I had, with mostly the red lightning bolt and throttle body errors, ended up being $30 worth of grounding straps. All my straps were rotted and fallen off. Bought one of those upgrade kits off Amazon, because nicer than the woven stuff, and fixed 80% of the truck issues I had.

The start/shutdown issue popped up again a few months later, but was always random anyways, and ended up being the fuel pump. Specifically, the check valve. Now totally shot and in a cocoon for the winter until Spring when I decide whether or not to sell, part out or fix as a garbage hauler. Basically, the fuel would flow back into the tank so when I started the truck, it ran for a second off the gas that was in the engine then run out and stop. If you turn the key all the way on (but not start) and off 3x it works. Basically I guess when you turn the key on and almost start, it pumps a bit of fuel, and doing it 3-4x seems to get the fuel up to the engine. Then runs fine. I think what I may do is go to the pump, cut the fuel line and just add an in-line check valve for $12 instead of $300 for a pump on a gas tank that's hard to access.

Hopefully some of that might help but, that's what my issue(s) were.

Now I also need a new muffler and passenger side manifold, and the inside part of the rockers are sagging... so... those issues as well. 399,400km... I just need a small bit more to hit 400k.