Synthetic Oil

[Rod Knock]

I run 5w-30 in the summer, I ran 5w-20 last winter but may try 0w-30 instead (I'm in southern Ontario so it gets fairly cold but not "Mantoba cold".

I may try the 190F thermostat and the grill shutter delete.

I may also try the purolator boss oil filter, its cheaper than the Royal Purple I've been using lol. I also have a bit of what appears to be cold start piston slap. It only really appears when ambiant temperature is < 20 celsius, so I rarely hear it in the heat of summer on a cold start, but in the winter, yeah it's there. That's why I"m still trying different things, I'd like to get rid of that noise.

My truck only idles for 5/10 minutes on occasion in the winter (remote start). But there is a guy on youtube, "truck central", who has almost 1000 idle hours on his 2019 hemi and has no issues. That's a lot of idling for only 100K miles of driving (and he works his truck hard, towing so much weight his air suspension stops working), so again, I have to think there is something else going on other than idling and MDS; because those are all things we all do/have, and yet only a small percentage get the lifter tick.

I don't understand how someone can have 100 idle hours and lifter failure, and the next guy 1000+ idle hours and no lifter failure, and then yet we conclude "idling causes lifter failure". There is not that much difference in a very precisely built engine (all things considered). It's got to be something else, like a manufacturing defect (Rams fix/behaviour points to this), or poor oil filtering (not changing oil on time, or maybe your theory with a small filter, but only because small filter is getting filled with junk too quickly, or maybe not enough cleansing agent in the oil being used.)

I dunno, I'm going to stop arguing because this is outside my wheelhouse and I just wanted to throw ideas around; but I do have a really hard time accepting some of these theories simply because for many of them, in order for them to be true there would have to be a lot more problems than there really are. A manufacturing defect (poor quality control) can explain why 1 person has a failure but 5000 don't. But an oil filter that is too small, if that's the really the case and we're all running these oil filters, well there should be a metric butt load of failures and we don't have that. There are millions of these hemis in circulation, and yes we do see 20? 30? reports on one forum, but that's a very small percentage of failures vs the amount of people who come to a forum to complain about problems.

Same thing with idling; we have data that shows high idling hours without failures. How does one guy reach 1000 hours without failure and the next guys hemi is done at 10,000 miles? It makes no sense. Cop cars have many failures, but they also don't follow the recommended oil change interval (320 hours). So when a cop car goes down, was it the idling or the poor oil servicing? We all know they're not getting their oil changed every 2 to 4 weeks like they should be.

Anyway. My pair of pennies.

The answer to lifter failures is simple: if something hinders lubrication to the rollers, they're toast. It may be debris that got into one of those holes during assembly, or later on, or owner neglect and oil that caked on somewhere and then moved and plugged the hole. That's how a guy with 1000 idle hours is fine, while another with 100 hours has blown lifters. Because the guy with 1000 hours changed his oil on time, and his motor was clean, while the guy with 100 hours might have debris in an oil lubrication hole or some other factor that prevented proper lifter lubrication, or he just neglected maintenance or used the cheapest conventional oil and worked his truck to death.

If you take care of your truck, then you'll be most likely fine. High heat also causes the exhaust manifold bolts to shear off. That's another reason why I went to a 180F thermostat. I really don't want to do manifold bolts or lifters on this truck. But if I ever have to, Johnson Lifters and a CompCam go in, as well as shorty headers, or 6.4 headers if they fit.

I would recommend that you go straight to 0W-40. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is pretty much a full-blown 5W-30 oil, except it flows much much better than even a 5W-20 at cold temperatures. I wouldn't recommend Castrol EDGE 0W-40 in Canada, which is about as thick as Red Line in the cold. Add 3 oz. per quart of oil of Lubegard Bio-Tech. I use 7.5 quarts of oil in my truck and 22~23 oz. of Lubegard. At 5000 miles, the oil looks almost like new. I change it at around 7000 miles. You will beat yourself to death trying to find a good 0W-30. They don't really exist, as there no demand for that grade. And I also had piston slap when cold, it's because the metals contract. Since I went to 0W-40, I don't hear it anymore. Thicker oil can hide a lot of quality control and manufacturing shortcomings. Why do you think the Germans spec (or used to spec) thicker oils for their passenger vehicles? Their VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes motors for their home markets aren't exactly a pinnacle of manufacturing excellence. But a thicker oil will make them sound almost perfect, not to mention they last longer than they should on thick 5W-30 or 5W-40 oil.

 

[Burla]

I should have known, but running my new portable air compressor from the hemi battery almost cooked it, too hot to handle. Use the cig lighter, and the fuse kept the machine perfectly cold, couldn't even tell I used it. I was worried it might fry the fuse, still might, but if I use the battery straight, it will fry my machine.

 

[crash68]

I should have known, but running my new portable air compressor from the hemi battery almost cooked it, too hot to handle. Use the cig lighter, and the fuse kept the machine perfectly cold, couldn't even tell I used it. I was worried it might fry the fuse, still might, but if I use the battery straight, it will fry my machine.

WUT? Fuses limit current by opening. If the compressor works fine hooked up to the cigarette lighter vs straight to the battery, there's a problem with how it's hooked up. It's a good idea to use a fuse if attaching direct to the battery, but if it blows that way it would blow if connected to the cig lighter outlet.

 

[Rod Knock]

According to the American Petroleum Institute: "Engine oils categorized as energy conserving are formulated to improve the fuel economy of passenger cars, vans and light-duty trucks. These oils have produced a fuel economy improvement of 1.5 percent or greater over a standard reference oil in a standard test procedure.

So, if you're getting 19 MPG on the highway with 0W-40, you will get ~19.3 MPG with 5W-20. I hope this settles the argument as to why 5W-20 is the recommended oil, and as to why Chrysler is so persistent in persuading customers to use 5W-20 in the HEMI, including, but not limited to, sneaking people onto RAM forums to spread the Gospel of "the HEMI was built for 5W-20."

To the average person, a fuel savings of 0.3 MPG might not be much, however, for Chrysler this means an imaginary fuel savings of about ~1.25 million gallons of gasoline per year per 100K RAM 1500 trucks sold. And for this imaginary savings, instead of being penalized, Chrysler receives CAFE credits. That's why they're pushing so hard for customers to stick to the recommended viscosity. Plus, it works in their favor, as it cuts into the engine's life.

[Edit]

For anyone who still thinks that running the recommend 5W-20 in these HEMIs is a good idea, and I hope that the ~12 gallons of gas you (might) save per year is worth the wear and tear and potential lifter issues that you will inevitably experience at some point.

 

[U&A]

So much AMSOIL's quality I guess. The HEMIs run too hot from the factory, and once the oil is cooked through several cycles, it's done for. Red Line is made to handle extreme temperatures.

Now lets be fair.

Amsoil still makes really great oil. It just dosnt suit the needs for noisy HEMI’s.

But there are plenty of hemis running amsoil successfully.


Sent while firmly grasping my Redline lubed Ram [emoji231]

 

[Hemi395]

Crank Scraper.

This guy rambles something fierce and appears to be taking it personally (which is too bad), but has some good points disproving UT. About 10 minutes in for the crank scraper.

Correct, thats at the bottom of the crank which strips most of the excess oil off the crank. But at higher rpm there is going to be some slinging of oil off the top of the crankshaft to the cam. That's all I was saying.

 

[Ramit355]

@Burla will probably recommend RP 20-820. I don't really like RP products, so I would recommend Purolator BOSS PBL24651. It's built like a tank and flows like a river, and the media is made of Polyester. As far as oil, I would say Red Line Oil 5W-40. If you're like me and just want to baby it and never run it hard, then Red Line 0W-40.

Thanks for the Opinion.

Side question. Has anyone heard of a hellcat with ticking lifters?

Actually that is a good question. Does the SRT have the same lifters as the the Scat Packs?

 

[Ramit355]

No, because:

1. They use non-MDS lifters, so lubrication is always excellent.
2. They actually use decent motor oil.
3. The big oil filter is specified for them.

Is the Oil calling for 0/40 PUP and filter calling for the 041 SRT Filter like the Scat Packs? (Have not got the SRT yet it still on order is why I'm asking.)

 

[Burla]

WUT? Fuses limit current by opening. If the compressor works fine hooked up to the cigarette lighter vs straight to the battery, there's a problem with how it's hooked up. It's a good idea to use a fuse if attaching direct to the battery, but if it blows that way it would blow if connected to the cig lighter outlet.

good point, I thought I grounded it good but maybe I didn't. I don't know for sure, but I wont be using it on the battery again.

 

[Ramit355]

I thinking of a funny reply that starts off something along the lines of: "It doesn't matter if you don't agree with reality because reality doesn't agree with your opinion..."

Sarcasm aside, the lifter still gets lubed through via the pushrods, but they don't get nearly as much oil as through the MDS passages. I guess it's wrong to call them MDS passages or galleries because they were there before Chrysler came up with MDS. They repurposed them for MDS. Anyway, it's your vehicle, use it how you see fit. You're not obligated to listen to some guy on a forum, lol.

My thoughts was tow/haul mode was so the transmission would run cooler not hunting for a lower gear all the time and automatically turn off ECO mode. I was not under the impression oil to the lifters would be changed in any way. Not saying your right or wrong just stating my understanding all this time. I can say one Ram Quad Cab 5.7 I had with a 6 speed 3.55 would hunt more out of tow haul by far more than the crew Cab 5.7 3.92 does out of tow/haul.

 

[Ramit355]

I agree with the replies, while you're under warranty stick with the SRT filter (MO-041) and PUP 0w40

Thought that was what I should do but so many say they cannot hold you accountable for what oils you run under warranty and I plan on holding on to this beauty for awhile or as long as I'm around and want it to stay together with thoughts at times the manufacture does not have same thoughts of them staying together for the longer runs..lol.

 

[Rod Knock]

Thought that was what I should do but so many say they cannot hold you accountable for what oils you run under warranty and I plan on holding on to this beauty for awhile or as long as I'm around and want it to stay together with thoughts at times the manufacture does not have same thoughts of them staying together for the longer runs..lol.

PUP is good oil, however, you are under no obligation to use the SRT filter. In fact, the Hellcat, IIRC, calls for the big Mopar filter. It's made by Purolator for Chrysler, but it's paper media, and not as good as the BOSS or Royal Purple 20-820. The better question is: how many vehicles have you bought from this dealer? I am asking, because I have a good relationship with my local Hyundai dealer, as my entire family buys cars from there. So if I go into the shop, I'm not placed under a microscope. I do however register all the car maintenance I do on my own with Carfax.com.

 

[Travis8352]

@Burla

i found this in a video hotshots secret posted on facebook of their pao/ester based 5w40.

 

[tidefan1967]

@Burla

i found this in a video hotshots secret posted on facebook of their pao/ester based 5w40.

View attachment 250240

So basically it has no Moly in it.

 

[Ramit355]

PUP is good oil, however, you are under no obligation to use the SRT filter. In fact, the Hellcat, IIRC, calls for the big Mopar filter. It's made by Purolator for Chrysler, but it's paper media, and not as good as the BOSS or Royal Purple 20-820. The better question is: how many vehicles have you bought from this dealer? I am asking, because I have a good relationship with my local Hyundai dealer, as my entire family buys cars from there. So if I go into the shop, I'm not placed under a microscope. I do however register all the car maintenance I do on my own with Carfax.com.

I do all myself with PUP/SRT Big Filter Filters and have documentation as to when I did it and bought the oil/Filters. As far as dealers, have bought from two dealers out of business....three I would never go back to and two I like really well. lol.

 

[Burla]

@Burla

i found this in a video hotshots secret posted on facebook of their pao/ester based 5w40.

View attachment 250240

Great find, that is kinda what I was thinking as a possibility because it was diesel oil. So I'm kinda comfortable where we are at, I'm certainly comfortable when I am at in the battle of hemi tick, but this oil right here can very possibly answer the question about moly and hemi tick if someone was interested in testing it. Because if this oil kills a couple ticks, it would likely mean the moly has less to do with killing ticks then the group 4/5 base oils. I wonder if they have 5w30 in this brand or a clone brand rolling around somewhere, but someone with a 6.4 that is battling hemi tick, this 5w40 is worth a shot. I wouldn't go testing if you already found an answer for the tick, I am a proponent of not breaking something that is fixed, and if the engine is quiet with your current strategy don't risk cam damage just to find out about moly, lol. When Rick hits the lotto, he already told me we would do some testing, so no doubt those results will be coming soon, or soonish.



Good job, how did that cookie taste?

 

[Travis8352]

Great find, that is kinda what I was thinking as a possibility because it was diesel oil. So I'm kinda comfortable where we are at, I'm certainly comfortable when I am at in the battle of hemi tick, but this oil right here can very possibly answer the question about moly and hemi tick if someone was interested in testing it. Because if this oil kills a couple ticks, it would likely mean the moly has less to do with killing ticks then the group 4/5 base oils. I wonder if they have 5w30 in this brand or a clone brand rolling around somewhere, but someone with a 6.4 that is battling hemi tick, this 5w40 is worth a shot. I wouldn't go testing if you already found an answer for the tick, I am a proponent of not breaking something that is fixed, and if the engine is quiet with your current strategy don't risk cam damage just to find out about moly, lol. When Rick hits the lotto, he already told me we would do some testing, so no doubt those results will be coming soon, or soonish.



Good job, how did that cookie taste?

I researched them before settling on schaeffers a while back for my hemi and they have some euro 5w30 synthetic but the jugs say right on them group 3 synthetic so i chose not to bother with it

it was delicious! Just like grandma makes

 

[HEMIMANN]

Is the Oil calling for 0/40 PUP and filter calling for the 041 SRT Filter like the Scat Packs? (Have not got the SRT yet it still on order is why I'm asking.)

Truck Engine (6.4) calls for 0W-40 PUP, doesn't say anything about filter other than MOPAR p/n.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Thought that was what I should do but so many say they cannot hold you accountable for what oils you run under warranty and I plan on holding on to this beauty for awhile or as long as I'm around and want it to stay together with thoughts at times the manufacture does not have same thoughts of them staying together for the longer runs..lol.

Yeah, and how many of us can afford the lawyer(s) to defeat a ginormous corporation in court?

 

[HEMIMANN]

So basically it has no Moly in it.

One of my theories. The polyol ester's affinity for metal surfaces may be key to residual lifter roller lubrication under oil-starving conditions.