Synthetic Oil

[Travis8352]

So Travis, can you expand on full saps versus low saps?

I believe mobils low saps offerings contain large amounts of ashless additives. Not sure whats better or worse though. Full saps is more old school with the full dose of traditional detergents and zddp.

 

[HEMIMANN]

For hemi tick looks like this would be a serious contender to replace redline with some biotech added maybe. The good thing about biotech is there is no reason to not play that card until you see if the oil itself is good enough. With that cSt just see if 5w30 fs-m1 kills the tick or keeps it killed for someone making a direct switch, then you can always put back some biotech. Most oils are going down in cst viscosity, this oil seams to go the other way, should be appreciated by hemi owners since we have different needs then the mass market goes.

Generally I say if it aint broke..... then... ok.

But, with redline prices getting stupid, this is worth a shot. With the same viscosity and impressive additive package, you need to judge this oil on it's formula not it's name. This m1 is a game changer, or at least has potential to be.

Yeah, but you know some of us say "don't wait until it breaks if'n you know it's a problem with high consequences".

 

[HEMIMANN]

I believe mobils low saps offerings contain large amounts of ashless additives. Not sure whats better or worse though. Full saps is more old school with the full dose of traditional detergents and zddp.

AAP near me just added Mobil 1 FS 5W-30, previously carried 0W-40 and 5W-40
(far north Minneapolis, MN suburbs)

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Save on Motor Oil at Advance Auto Parts. Buy online, pick up in-store in 30 minutes.

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[HEMIMANN]

Just stumbled into this - seems low SAPS is really targeted at diesel engines due to their particulate matter (PM, or soot) formation - well known sulfur and sulfated ash contributes to combustion-related particulate matter.

Simultaneously, it seems EPA is after commercial diesel engine mileage and is doing the same thing to diesel oils as gas engine oils - thinning them out no matter what the increased wear consequences. While not a big deal to most consumer grocery-getter bugmobiles, it is a consequence to commercial trucks if their engines wear out much earlier for only 0.000001% less fuel consumption. And here I wondered why Cummins went from 15W-40 to 10W-30. It wasn't for the change from flat tappets to roller lifters. Flat tappets changed to roller lifters AND lower oil viscosity because of EPA!

Have a look at this from an additive supplier:

Why are low HTHS oils becoming more important?

Future-proofing with lower HTHS Afton works closely with OEMs to understand as to how low the HTHS of a fluid could go through completion of field trial activity and in-house testing. Lower HTHS oil demand is expected to ramp up over the coming years to meet tougher emissions and fuel economy...

www.aftonchemical.com

 

[Burla]

Just stumbled into this - seems low SAPS is really targeted at diesel engines due to their particulate matter (PM, or soot) formation - well known sulfur and sulfated ash contributes to combustion-related particulate matter.

Simultaneously, it seems EPA is after commercial diesel engine mileage and is doing the same thing to diesel oils as gas engine oils - thinning them out no matter what the increased wear consequences. While not a big deal to most consumer grocery-getter bugmobiles, it is a consequence to commercial trucks if their engines wear out much earlier for only 0.000001% less fuel consumption. And here I wondered why Cummins went from 15W-40 to 10W-30. It wasn't for the change from flat tappets to roller lifters. Flat tappets changed to roller lifters AND lower oil viscosity because of EPA!

Have a look at this from an additive supplier:

Why are low HTHS oils becoming more important?

Future-proofing with lower HTHS Afton works closely with OEMs to understand as to how low the HTHS of a fluid could go through completion of field trial activity and in-house testing. Lower HTHS oil demand is expected to ramp up over the coming years to meet tougher emissions and fuel economy...

www.aftonchemical.com

View attachment 523226

wait just a cotton pik'n minute, they are the gov't and they are here to help...

 

[knightjp]

Very interesting fact after I seen this post, FS 5w40 m1 has an operating visc at 13.2, even "thinner" then 0w40FS, and only 1 point over 5w30. So, who knows 5w40 m1 fs might be some exceptional hemi oil., it surely has potential imo. So many guys running 0w40 in the 5.7, well my guess this 5w40 FS m1 will even perform better in most cases, especially since they built this on to be very close to 30 weight api class. Kind of unexpected surprise seeing this.

The only real question imo is cold piston slap in cold months. But even the 5w30 fs could be a question here as we see even redline 5w30 have some issues, all cSt over twelve. So compared to other good choices, the risk seams minimal compared to every oil discussed.

Over on the BITOG forums, Mobil1 FS 0W40 comes highly recommended. There are users who have used all year round and never faced the tick or any issue.
I'm currently using it right now.
I do understand the need to find a cheaper alternative to Redline, especially in my part of the world where stocks are at times in short supply.
So that is why I asked about these two oils that are readily available in my region right now for ridiculously cheap prices.
Havoline Pro DS 5w30 & Lexus 5w40.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Just stumbled into this - seems low SAPS is really targeted at diesel engines due to their particulate matter (PM, or soot) formation - well known sulfur and sulfated ash contributes to combustion-related particulate matter.

Simultaneously, it seems EPA is after commercial diesel engine mileage and is doing the same thing to diesel oils as gas engine oils - thinning them out no matter what the increased wear consequences. While not a big deal to most consumer grocery-getter bugmobiles, it is a consequence to commercial trucks if their engines wear out much earlier for only 0.000001% less fuel consumption. And here I wondered why Cummins went from 15W-40 to 10W-30. It wasn't for the change from flat tappets to roller lifters. Flat tappets changed to roller lifters AND lower oil viscosity because of EPA!

Have a look at this from an additive supplier:

Why are low HTHS oils becoming more important?

Future-proofing with lower HTHS Afton works closely with OEMs to understand as to how low the HTHS of a fluid could go through completion of field trial activity and in-house testing. Lower HTHS oil demand is expected to ramp up over the coming years to meet tougher emissions and fuel economy...

www.aftonchemical.com

View attachment 523226

No doubt, true, but one of the big objectives was noise reduction, thus the scissor gear on the cam(now hollow, BTW)drive, and hydraulic rollers.

 

[Burla]

dude found some old oil, how does new oil with moly perform against old oil with no moly? Hint, I doubt he met the conditions needed for the moly to plate. I guess you could say graphite had something to do with it, I guess valid, but also look at the numbers of aw additives in older oils.

Will "Graphite" Help Motor Oil Performance? Let's find out! Vintage Arco Graphite vs Quaker State

Vintage Arco 10W-40 motor oil with graphite tested against Quaker State Advanced Durability 10W-40. Lubricity test, independent oil analysis, evaporative lo...

youtu.be

 

[HEMIMANN]

No doubt, true, but one of the big objectives was noise reduction, thus the scissor gear on the cam(now hollow, BTW)drive, and hydraulic rollers.

The engine was already quiet with HPCR injection. Are they nuts? The Techs hated it when they moved the gear train to the back of the engine to muffle the gear lash.

 

[HEMIMANN]

dude found some old oil, how does new oil with moly perform against old oil with no moly? Hint, I doubt he met the conditions needed for the moly to plate. I guess you could say graphite had something to do with it, I guess valid, but also look at the numbers of aw additives in older oils.

Will "Graphite" Help Motor Oil Performance? Let's find out! Vintage Arco Graphite vs Quaker State

Vintage Arco 10W-40 motor oil with graphite tested against Quaker State Advanced Durability 10W-40. Lubricity test, independent oil analysis, evaporative lo...

youtu.be

Graphite, being a solid, plugs orifices is what I recall, so can't be used in today's tight engines with hydraulic gizmos.

 

[Burla]

Graphite, being a solid, plugs orifices is what I recall, so can't be used in today's tight engines with hydraulic gizmos.

Choir meet Preacher, but let that secret sink in to fellas using mos2.

 

[tjfdesmo]

The engine was already quiet with HPCR injection. Are they nuts? The Techs hated it when they moved the gear train to the back of the engine to muffle the gear lash.

The '19+ are much quieter than the earlier HPCR engines. The geartrain is still at the front on the Ram applications, but they implemented the scissor gear to remove gear rattle.

The engine itself is so quiet you can really hear the HPCR pump running, and that became quieter when they went back to the CP3 from the junk CP4.

 

[Burla]

Over on the BITOG forums, Mobil1 FS 0W40 comes highly recommended. There are users who have used all year round and never faced the tick or any issue.
I'm currently using it right now.
I do understand the need to find a cheaper alternative to Redline, especially in my part of the world where stocks are at times in short supply.
So that is why I asked about these two oils that are readily available in my region right now for ridiculously cheap prices.
Havoline Pro DS 5w30 & Lexus 5w40.

I would stick with 0w40 FS, but lexus oils are just rebranded toyota oils I am pretty sure, and they have a good commitment to moly. However, I don't know if any toyota or lexus in USA takes 5w40, so I have no real idea about this oil. Havoline is nothing special, but nothing really is anymore, which makes havoline a good choice by default. I'd lean towards to toyota fluid especially because it is 5w40, but I have no info past that. Any of those will be serviceable, especially if you have a case of biotech laying around every time you want to run a sale oil, give that hemi some good additives.

 

[Burla]

Graphite, being a solid, plugs orifices is what I recall, so can't be used in today's tight engines with hydraulic gizmos.

the other part of that post was the vid, and how old oils had a lesser wear scar by alot then modern oils, did you catch that.

 

[knightjp]

I would stick with 0w40 FS, but lexus oils are just rebranded toyota oils I am pretty sure, and they have a good commitment to moly. However, I don't know if any toyota or lexus in USA takes 5w40, so I have no real idea about this oil. Havoline is nothing special, but nothing really is anymore, which makes havoline a good choice by default. I'd lean towards to toyota fluid especially because it is 5w40, but I have no info past that. Any of those will be serviceable, especially if you have a case of biotech laying around every time you want to run a sale oil, give that hemi some good additives.

Honestly from what the BITOG forums talk about oils for Hemi, Mobil 1 is the most recommended. On there, they don't see the need for additives. Biotech isn't readily available where I live.
From the bottles of the Toyota and Lexus oils, the oil is made in collaboration with Idemitsu Kosan, which is a Japanese oil manufacturer and I've seen the uoas of their oils.. Very high moly content.
That being said, seeing that most of these recommended off the shelf oils don't have much moly, are we really sure that its the moly that makes the difference? The one thing that Mobil 1 FS, Castrol and Redline have in common is the similar levels of zinc or ZDDP. Even the Redline bottle makes mention of it, as well as Motul 300V.
I'm also pretty sure that oil thickness is a key factor where I live. People that don't service their vehicles with the main dealer seem to have a better time and never face issues with the HEMI tick. Most garages prefer to use 5w30 or 5w40 oils.. Mobil1 FS 0W40 is actually a common oil being sold here.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Choir meet Preacher, but let that secret sink in to fellas using mos2.

To be fair, MoS2 evolves from MoDTC on 'demand'.

 

[HEMIMANN]

The '19+ are much quieter than the earlier HPCR engines. The geartrain is still at the front on the Ram applications, but they implemented the scissor gear to remove gear rattle.

The engine itself is so quiet you can really hear the HPCR pump running, and that became quieter when they went back to the CP3 from the junk CP4.

??? I distinctly recall the big hullabaloo about moving gear trains on new ISB & ISC?

 

[HEMIMANN]

the other part of that post was the vid, and how old oils had a lesser wear scar by alot then modern oils, did you catch that.

nah, I hate videos. They're for guys who can't read. No vids in school in my day. We used to laugh at managers that needed pictures to understand their own products they didn't care about.

 

[ramffml]

nah, I hate videos. They're for guys who can't read.

Welp, guilty as charged lol

 

[tidefan1967]

nah, I hate videos. They're for guys who can't read. No vids in school in my day. We used to laugh at managers that needed pictures to understand their own products they didn't care about.

They’re entertaining. I replaced my morning routine of reading the paper and having coffee to watching YouTube and having coffee. It’s a lot cheaper and a lot more fun. Reading the sports page was ok but watching drag racing videos is much better. If you could only smell the burnt rubber and the racing gas…….