To 87mm TB, or not to 87mm TB?

[RAM_Designs]

Hey guys, been a while since I've posted here....I've FINALLY found someone local to install my ARH long tubes on my 6.4, it's the only real performance mod that I'm going to have done (aside from 4.88 gears). I'm not going to get a tuner, so with that in mind, since I have an easier flowing exhaust system coming soon, should I couple that with a Moe's 87mm throttle body so match, or would there be no discernable difference from stock?

I'm mainly doing the LT's to get rid of the stock manifold exhaust leaks while adding some performance as well, I'm not trying to make my truck into some modded out race truck or anything, so going the whole 9 yards with TB, tuner, tune, etc isn't really appealing to me if I can just get by with using the LT's and new TB.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Hi,
I installed Moes's TB & SB Filters CAI this spring. I'm pretty sure I can feel the difference. It's a good job to do together, since each requires disassembly of the other.

If you look at SB Filter's website, they have some data showing reduction in air intake flow restriction north of 30%, so if that's accurate, it must translate into some performance improvement, include fuel efficiency

Visually, the stock air intake has more restrictive features than the exhaust. The intake has a number of small radius bends, rough surfaces, and bellows-style connectors. SB CAI has large bend radius, smooth interior, and non-bellows flex connector, + large cone-type air filter.

Ram exhaust has big 4" dia. pipe and huge muffler, so not much to be gained with aftermarket cat-back. But I'd given up on headers because they dropped the 6.4L so deep into the big 2500 frame there's no room for headers. How did you get the long tube ARH headers to fit? I'd love to do headers - not just for the crappy, warping stock manifold, but also because it isn't low restriction.

 

[RAM_Designs]

The headers are made for the 6.4, there’s 3-4 companies that make LT’s for the 6.4 trucks. Also the stock exhaust on the 6.4 is 3.5”. I’m glad you felt a difference with the TB and CAI. I’m torn in the CAI because I think the stock one is designed very well.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Don't the long tube headers require catalytic converter removal?

Look at the S&B Filter Cold Air Intake. I installed it myself, am a mechanical engineer. It is much better. Has documented reduced airflow restriction. The stock system is not as well designed.

 

[ripping r]

The headers are made for the 6.4, there’s 3-4 companies that make LT’s for the 6.4 trucks.

I know of only two. ARH and twisted something. who are the other 2. i would like a set. even a set of shorty. i just dont want to deal with broken bolts. but im not paying 2,000 for headers.

 

[RAZ175]

I know of only two. ARH and twisted something. who are the other 2. i would like a set. even a set of shorty. i just dont want to deal with broken bolts. but im not paying 2,000 for headers.

Kooks and AFE offer long tubes. I've never seen any short tube header for the 6.4L.

 

[Rick Ram-jet]

I`m almost certain that headers along with cold-air/TB will require a re-tune!

 

[HEMIMANN]

Kooks and AFE offer long tubes. I've never seen any short tube header for the 6.4L.

And, if memory serves, the long tube headers require a catalytic converter delete, making the vehicle illegal for street use by violating EPA exhaust emission regulations.

As for retuning, I'm not sure a retune is required - the MAF measures how much combustion air is entering the engine and adjusts fueling accordingly. Same with the O2 sensor in the exhaust. Just because the flows are higher doesn't mean the ECM / PCM can't accommodate them.

 

[Pull Ya]

Headers and a larger TB coupled with a better CAI will help move more air in and out of your engine. They will have a limited amount of performance value without a custom tune. Your truck will perform better than stock, however.
Jay

 

[RAM_Designs]

Kooks and AFE offer long tubes. I've never seen any short tube header for the 6.4L.

yeah I wanted to go short for the money savings, but went with the ARH with high flow cats, got some attachments for the o2 sensors from Vivint(sp?) that allows you to adjust the air flow by the o2 sensor to keep them from throwing codes since there's more air flow through the LT system.

 

[RAM_Designs]

And, if memory serves, the long tube headers require a catalytic converter delete, making the vehicle illegal for street use by violating EPA exhaust emission regulations.

As for retuning, I'm not sure a retune is required - the MAF measures how much combustion air is entering the engine and adjusts fueling accordingly. Same with the O2 sensor in the exhaust. Just because the flows are higher doesn't mean the ECM / PCM can't accommodate them.

ARH and AFE offer both options, with high flow cats or without.

 

[Pull Ya]

ARH's are top-shelf IMHO
Jay

 

[ripping r]

ARH's are top-shelf IMHO
Jay

They dam well better be for the price. even than its a truck not a race car. maybe if the gov gives us 1,200 bucks again i can swing a set.

 

[Pull Ya]

I think that they have the best workmanship and fit. You almost never hear any complaints about them from people that have them. They also seem to be one of the most popular brands, however, I agree-----they ain't cheap, but none of the quality stuff is.
Jay

 

[HEMIMANN]

ARH long tube headers on their website are $2067 with dual cats, yet they still put a disclaimer that "ALL American Racing Headers Exhaust Systems are for OFF-ROAD use only."

I don't get why anyone would bother putting new cats in if these are not EPA emission regulation compliant. And this is all before installation labor. In MN, any vehicle sale requires an owner to attest that they haven't modified to cause EPA emission compliance loss. Moe's TB and SB filter say they are ok.

 

[RAM_Designs]

Then don't buy them? Your decision, but I'm putting headers on mine.

 

[ripping r]

Then don't buy them? Your decision, but I'm putting headers on mine.

are you going to have them coated?

 

[HEMIMANN]

I guess TX isn't as regulated.

 

[RAM_Designs]

are you going to have them coated?

Nah, they use 304 SS which is pretty rust proof, and we don't have any salt down here, so it'll definitely last the 5yrs I'll have them on for without any issues.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Just for fun, I wrote MN Pollution Control Agency with a quandry memorandum. I expect them to ignore, or blow off. But I feel better.
Also have a few questions in to ARH.

UPDATE (12/16): The MN Pollution Control Agency actually responded to my inquiry. It is as expected - we're screwed with Ram's defected design here...

"Replacement of emissions system equipment with aftermarket parts can be considered tampering, unless the manufacturer approves of the change and agrees that the part will meet their specifications and that the vehicle will continue to comply with emissions standards. I suggest contacting the manufacturer about the issue and ask them to evaluate your proposed change and respond to you in writing if they approve of the change."

Replacing exhaust manifolds, tubing and stock catalytic converters with ARH long tube headers and cats, though much better design, would be considered "tampering" by the government because FCA hadn't "approved" ARH's design. Geezus.