Trany etiquette

[Riccochet]

To tell you how weak our tranny's are I roasted mine in 10k miles. My truck is bone stock. I pull a ~3500# boat/trailer for tournament bass fishing. Mostly around central and western N.C. Lots of hills at 4-7% grade. I kinda felt it getting weaker until it wouldn't make it up a 6% grade. Lots of RPM's, no go. Fluid was roasted, clutches shredded. In 10k miles. That doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. I generally baby the truck and it's always in tow/haul mode when towing. Only 18k on the truck. After some convo's with customer care and the dealer they replaced the transmission instead of rebuilding it. I don't race around, I don't line launch it, I'm rarely ever in WOT. Just tow. A light load at that.

Food for thought.

 

[charonblk07]

I would at least invest in a deep trans pan if you're doing a lot of towing through high grade hills/mountains.

 

[fasthemiram12]

If mine goes I'm putting in a 4L80E and calling it a day.

4L80E Automatic Overdrive

 

[fasthemiram12]

Or this would kick ***!!
4L80E Performance Transmission from PATC ,4L80E

 

[charonblk07]

Ouch, $7K for a trans without any of the other optional upgrades. I'm only in $3000 with mine and holding up so far.

 

[Riccochet]

I would at least invest in a deep trans pan if you're doing a lot of towing through high grade hills/mountains.

Not to be blunt, but I shouldn't have to invest in **** when pulling 3,500 lbs. This truck is rated for over 9,000 lbs. I'm pulling a third of it's rated capacity. I had no such issues with my Ford F150 for 50k miles. If this were a work truck that towed a piece of equipment daily it still shouldn't have to be modified to tow it's rated capacity daily.

Now, if the trans takes a dump in another 10k this thing is going bye-bye.

 

[charonblk07]

Not to be blunt, but I shouldn't have to invest in **** when pulling 3,500 lbs. This truck is rated for over 9,000 lbs. I'm pulling a third of it's rated capacity. I had no such issues with my Ford F150 for 50k miles. If this were a work truck that towed a piece of equipment daily it still shouldn't have to be modified to tow it's rated capacity daily.

Now, if the trans takes a dump in another 10k this thing is going bye-bye.

Thanks for coming out. And to be perfectly blunt, after that, I can hope yours takes a crap and you have to get rid your piece of crap so you don't have to come around here and listen to people who are only trying to give you advice for making your $40K vehicle work better/longer for only $250. Towing anything through hills/mountains regularly would be enough for most people to want to protect their vehicle, but since you don't think you should even after roasting one trans, well, I won't be sad if you don't come back. Heaven forbid you come into a thread that's about learning how to make these trans last longer and actually have an open mind about it.

I probably shouldn't even tell you this, but I try to help people even when they're hard headed; leaving it in Tow/haul all the time isn't the best practice when towing either as it causes the engine to hold gears for longer durations and will keep downshifting to reduce speed on the downhills which builds up extra heat in the fluid. It also disables the OD gears as well as applies the '3rd gear' which is the same as the 2nd prime in the 545rfe, so if you're holding it in 3rd gear and pushing it up a hill or having it hold 3rd going downhill then you're forcing it to stay in its weakest gear meanwhile not providing any way for it to cool the fluid down by either upgrading the trans cooler or providing more fluid to dissipate heat into.

 

[jlb]

It is disappointing that the transmission seems so weak on these trucks. It also doesn't help that the fluid hasn't been updated in like 10 years. I upgraded to C+ ATF for more stable viscosity, and it did make a difference in shift quality as well.

 

[MGRAM]

I have towed my toy hauler weighing 7700lbs and having a 4x4 quad in the box weighing 700lbs up hills in the mountains and never skipped a beat.

 

[DavidRam]

Im with you man I bought mine used in 2012 and haven't stepped foot in a dealer since for my truck. It has 32k on it right now and I couldn't be happier.

I guess we should count our blessings!
I do recognize that our trannys aren't the best, but I accept that. When the tranny goes, either the dealer will fix it, or I will spend the $3,000 to get a better one.
I know guys that spend that on a Vegas weekend, filled with cocaine and high-end hookers! Lol!

 

[BlownGP]

Or this would kick ***!!
4L80E Performance Transmission from PATC ,4L80E

4L80s are a beast!!!

So, what you're looking for Jay is fairly simple as long as you're looking at at least full bolt-ons with custome tune, nitrous, or supercharged.

The big no-no's are:

1) regular 60mph WOT downshifts; downshift to 3rd then hammer it, you can downshift to 4th and then WOT downshift and it's generally fine as you're not going through 4th. Getting it out of OD is the most important thing.

Good advice,, so at any speed is a WOT down**** bad?

I mean 40-60mph is average speed around here seems I always get into a race at that speed. I can see why dropping all the way to 3rd would be bad for the trans especially at 60, any lower mph ok?


Also, what should the trans temp be around on a 90* day?

In my GTP I'll be lucky if it stays below 200" and that's with a tranny cooler and deep pan.LOL But that's normal for these cars.

 

[MGRAM]

Any WOT downshifts are bad, major clutch slipping and heat build up happens.
My trans with hot days doesn't exceed 175° with a heavy foot, so take that info as you please, the 2014 with the 8speed maintains 198° with it's trans fluid heater so obviously the "optimal" temp is around 200° well for an 8speed anyway.
My cummins runs around 140° on hwy and 170° in traffic and with steep slow up hill towing with a heavy load I have seen 240° and zero trans issue or cooked fluid and that's the 68rfe transmission which is "similar" to the 545rfe.
That's info I have personally noted with my rams.

 

[BlownGP]

Ok,, thanks for info..

Will take note. I will dropping the pan and changing the fluid/filters soon want to see if I will notice a difference.

 

[Riccochet]

Thanks for coming out. And to be perfectly blunt, after that, I can hope yours takes a crap and you have to get rid your piece of crap so you don't have to come around here and listen to people who are only trying to give you advice for making your $40K vehicle work better/longer for only $250. Towing anything through hills/mountains regularly would be enough for most people to want to protect their vehicle, but since you don't think you should even after roasting one trans, well, I won't be sad if you don't come back. Heaven forbid you come into a thread that's about learning how to make these trans last longer and actually have an open mind about it.

I probably shouldn't even tell you this, but I try to help people even when they're hard headed; leaving it in Tow/haul all the time isn't the best practice when towing either as it causes the engine to hold gears for longer durations and will keep downshifting to reduce speed on the downhills which builds up extra heat in the fluid. It also disables the OD gears as well as applies the '3rd gear' which is the same as the 2nd prime in the 545rfe, so if you're holding it in 3rd gear and pushing it up a hill or having it hold 3rd going downhill then you're forcing it to stay in its weakest gear meanwhile not providing any way for it to cool the fluid down by either upgrading the trans cooler or providing more fluid to dissipate heat into.

I'm not forcing the transmission to do anything. I put it in drive, hit the tow/hual button and go. Like I've done in 3 F150's, 2 F250's, 1 GMC 1500 and 1 Titan. I didn't have to modify any of those vehicles. The trans temps never went over 170. If Dodge wanted the driver to be aware that 3rd gear will roast a transmission they should put that in the owners manual.

It's a truck. If it can't pull 3,500 lbs through the foothills with no modifications that doesn't speak quality to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the truck. I just tow a lot and should't have to worry about the trans taking a dump after 10k miles of towing a bass boat.

Maybe my trans was defective from the get go and the towing just accelerated it's demise. I'm hoping for that. I go through trucks about every 2 years due to the miles I rack up. If this one lasts I'll be getting another Ram as it's the most comfortable truck I've ever owned.

 

[fasthemiram12]

I might just do a PCS transmission controller instead.
The 545 isn't the problem... It's the factory pos transmission tune that is supposed to appeal to the masses with smooth sloppy shifts.
I think I can make a transmission last a lot longer with better programming.
Powertrain Control Solutions - TCM-2000

 

[Jerseymike]

I might just do a PCS transmission controller instead.
The 545 isn't the problem... It's the factory pos transmission tune that is supposed to appeal to the masses with smooth sloppy shifts.
I think I can make a transmission last a lot longer with better programming.
Powertrain Control Solutions - TCM-2000

I fully agree. I think the tune is causing most of the problems. In an effort to get better gas mileage the trans is being tuned to lock the TC very early and shift to a higher gear at very low rpms. They are slipping clutches(trans and TC) to do this without stalling the motor. My TC locks up around 20 mph @ 1000 rpms. And part throttle shifts occur at 1600 rpms causing them to fall back to 1000 rpms. I hate how sluggish it feels thats why I feel the need to run a tuner.

 

[charonblk07]

I might just do a PCS transmission controller instead.
The 545 isn't the problem... It's the factory pos transmission tune that is supposed to appeal to the masses with smooth sloppy shifts.
I think I can make a transmission last a lot longer with better programming.
Powertrain Control Solutions - TCM-2000

He mght have changed his tune by now, but when I talked to him when I was starting my build the only way he'd do anything for integrating the PCS into the truck was if he physically had my truck to work on for a month. He told me a few times that he can get the controller to hook up to the trans no problem but that integrating to the truck's PCM was the issue so he was only marketing the controller for the jeeps with a hemi swap that wanted to use the 545 as well.

Have you actually talked to him about it or just been looking at the website?

 

[fasthemiram12]

Just been looking.
I have a way to turn the trans off completely so it shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[hemidup]

When making BIG power any WOT, passing gear type of downshifts are bad for any brand/year of auto transmission's.

The Sharadon valve body all started with my truck. Needed to figure a way to get the truck to shift faster and really had no interest in marketing them. After building and testing mine a few of the 03 guy's that swapped to 4.56 gears kept hitting the rev limiter between shifts so I sent a couple out for testing and low and behold their transmission's shifted faster which kept them from hitting the limiter. HEMI450 can attest to this since he was one of the first ones to test one out at the track and the beginning of marketing the valve body. So yes, the Sharadon valve body does give you faster upshifts and no, the accumulator springs are still used. BTW, just getting the fact's out on that rumor.

Then I had an issue with the transmission all together. There was no way to keep a stock transmission under my truck so instead of knocking the power down I decided to build a better transmission. It's still a learning process. I helped with the design of the Stage II while Sharadon can take full credit for the Stage III and I went on from there to make a Stage IV which is still in testing in my truck.

I was the first to use the 68RFE diesel clutches in a 545RFE after finding how well the Alto Red's and Koleen steels DIDn'T work for certain clutch packs. There's also a 4 page write up with pic's in a past 2008 Mopar Muscle Magazine showing exactly how this is done. Show's you what parts where machined and the extra clutches that were added. I'm sure there are transmission shops that have copied the build and even added in their own mod's, but machining plates and adding clutches have been around for as long as I can remember. IMO that just because the 68RFE clutches can hold 750 ft/lbs tq for a diesel doesn't mean they'll hold 750 ft/lbs tq in a gas motor. Clutch application at RPM being the difference.

I do plenty of R&D with the 545. Currently my office is in shambles with small transmission parts scattered everywhere from solenoids, pressure regulators, clutches, steels, valve bodies, etc, all having certain mod's done to them.

When making power I think transmission tuning is a joke unless you can data log as to what is being done and why no tuner ie whitelightning or hemifever know's better to mess with mine. I can data log with a PCS standalone, but even still there's really no good tune you can create without premature failures either, which brings me back to beefing up the mechanical side of things inside the transmission. I'm currently working on my 15th 545 revision with #16 and 17 right behind it. Now I just need to get my butt to the track lol. I'm making close to 850hp/tq and going back to some of the mod's that I had on my 9th and 10th revisions which both looked good after 100 track passes. #12 and 13 didn't fair so well with less than 20 each before they both failed. Figure if I can make a transmission hold up to 200 of my passes that transmission should hold up to a good beating from the guy's making 500hp/tq.

Also, I'll be glad to answer any and all your questions you have about the myth's and rumor's of the 545. Please don't PM me. I'd rather keep it on an open forum and maybe even start a new topic.

Some mod's to my 4x4 Ram truck....6.1 based 392, Paxton 1500 blower with 2 small stages of n2o, custom ground Cammotion camshaft, 3800 Edge Racing converter, 3.92 gears, SMT6 with Superchips 3815 for tuning and a bunch of other stuff.

1.48 60' 6.87@98 1/8 11.03@118 1/4

 

[hemidup]

Just been looking.
I have a way to turn the trans off completely so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Maybe I should send you some of my prototype 545 parts. That way we can spend another couple days on the phone while your building it. BTW my price has come up from the normal case of Florida oranges to.....? I'll have to think about this one Josh.