Tuning, is the grass greener on the other side?

[N1ck]

I will be running the 87 tune on a Saturday July 4 event for sure.

My trinity is absolutely bang on with the time slips w/ HF tune... Jays seems to be trapping higher as well as the 87. Just frustrated that's all. I blame hammerhead and his stupid times!

 

[Hemi450hp]

I blame hammerhead and his stupid times!

This is not any kind of attack on him, but his times are a perfect explanation of what I'm talking about. His tuner said he went 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, but at the track he ran a 14.0 @ 96mph. If his truck actually had a 4.8 0-60 time, that means it takes him 9.2 seconds to go from 60-96. Do the math on that one. We know his truck is faster than that on the big end of the track. There are just way too many factors that can skew numbers on the Trinity.

 

[DavidRam]

These trucks also have a learning curve, so switching tunes every single day isn't going to give you an accurate performance reading either. I would load a tune, and run it for no less than 1 week before changing to something new.

^^^ This is a point I was trying to make in my first response... I don't think you are going to get the best out of any of those tunes, immediately. Give each tune a few days and then check your times.
I do not have the track experience that Matt and the other guys have, but I do know for sure that my truck feels mediocre when I first load a tune. After a few days it really wakes up and runs consistent 0-60s in the 5.2s with a 91 HF tune and the 6 speed.

 

[DavidRam]

My tunes run the same timing every pass no learning curve there.

First when the tune loads is the leanest the AFR will be slowly riching over a few days. Only fix is tuning with VE tables and the open look set to target. But it's a long process and yields no more power.

If it days days to adapt and run better something is ******...

That's because you are a super-hero Jay, us regular folk have to wait for our ******** trucks to learn...

 

[N1ck]

Got another tune on there, best 1/8 I've done on any tune to date and the highest trap

 

[Hemi_Express2013]

My tunes run the same timing every pass no learning curve there.

First when the tune loads is the leanest the AFR will be slowly riching over a few days. Only fix is tuning with VE tables and the open look set to target. But it's a long process and yields no more power.

If it days days to adapt and run better something is ******...

That's what most if us experience. These pcm are very complex and multi-level as I'm sure you know. There is definitely more to this than changing timing, afr, and ve. There are modifiers that you have no access to with Diablosport. You can't control or tune cylinder to cylinder afr nor short runners, to name a couple for reminder. In my experience, you need new maps and new tables. Right now, R&D is going on for short runner tables with a couple serious players. Mopar engineers didn't leave a lot of meat, they took these engines systems to there most and kept them EPA compliant. Even the scatpaks systems have new recalibrate pcms for 60hp.

 

[HammerHead]

This is not any kind of attack on him, but his times are a perfect explanation of what I'm talking about. His tuner said he went 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, but at the track he ran a 14.0 @ 96mph. If his truck actually had a 4.8 0-60 time, that means it takes him 9.2 seconds to go from 60-96. Do the math on that one. We know his truck is faster than that on the big end of the track. There are just way too many factors that can skew numbers on the Trinity.

I actually think the trinity is very accurate as long as you have the correct tire height set in the tuner. If I get tire spin off the line my times suffer. And the difference between my 4.8 run and my track time is Summer vs. Winter... If my truck was on the track when I made my 4.8 run at 23 degrees F and 0% humidity I would destroy that 14.0@96....

 

[Hemi450hp]

I actually think the trinity is very accurate as long as you have the correct tire height set in the tuner. If I get tire spin off the line my times suffer. And the difference between my 4.8 run and my track time is Summer vs. Winter... If my truck was on the track when I made my 4.8 run at 23 degrees F and 0% humidity I would destroy that 14.0@96....

For comparison sake, I recorded a log with a 4.8 0-60 a few months back when I was running 12.7's in the 1/4. Next time you go to the track, record your 0-60 during your pass, and see how it compares with your 1/4 mile ET.

 

[N1ck]

I have a handful of customers that have done back to back runs at the track, and they are dropping anywhere from .2-.5 in the 1/4 mile with the HF custom tuning over the canned Diablo tunes.

These trucks also have a learning curve, so switching tunes every single day isn't going to give you an accurate performance reading either. I would load a tune, and run it for no less than 1 week before changing to something new.

Seems like it is ok to run Diablo to HF back 2 back if it makes HF tunes looks better?

 

[Hemi450hp]

They are showing gains right away, but I have found that after a week or so, the trucks seem to run just a bit better. Same applies with Superchips, Bullydog, and the regular canned Diablo tunes. Has nothing to do with who is writing the custom tune.

 

[kg93]

wouldn't our trucks show gains faster if you just unhooked the battery for 15 minutes after installing a new tune. It would reset the learning curve wouldn't it?

i know recently after my headers, my truck wasn't shifting/running the way it should have been and after unplugging the battery allowing the memory to reset it runs great now

 

[N1ck]

If anyone is interested, going to be doing a Go Pro videos over the weekend comparing some tunes - all on the same video one after another.

 

[Hemi_Express2013]

Actually I adjust the stock modifiers to prevent adapting.

Also set them up to use different timing when it's hot out instead of using ST knock.

Awesome news. I gotta admit, that's taking it to another level, impressed. Seemingly, these moderifiers are taking power away from us during the adaptive learn crap. AFR definitely moves from the sweat spot. My truck makes the most power @ wot close to 13 but these modifiers keep pushing it in the high 11's, even with COT tuned off, etc. And then there's the dip in the curve (4800-5000)when the short runner bangs in. Even when the short runner turned off? Do you have any experience
Tuning the short runners?

 

[hemiexp04]

The trinity is not accurate enough to make these kinds of claims. I actually test the trinity at the track and was 3 tenths slower than my actual time just fyi. It's a decent tool but that's it. And makes all these runs back to back like that they are all going to be all over the place. I can go right now do 10 0-60 runs and they will be all the the place. Truck is getting heat soaked horribly iats are probably like 130* , trucks going to pull alot of timing and it's gonna run like crap. Only way your going to get an accurate comparison between tunes is going to the track running both tunes on the same day and letting the truck cool so the conditions are the same. Even then it's not going to be hard to say who's tune is better than the other. I mean we're talking bolt on trucks here. Not some built turbo truck. There's only so much these tuners can do and I think people get too caught up on what someone else runs and thinks their truck should run that too. So many factors go into it. With that being said I love my jg tune. 13.8 in a qq 4x4 weighing 5600lbs with tune and intake only is good in my book. My tuner must be doing something right.

 

[coleflo]

Actually I adjust the stock modifiers to prevent adapting.

Also set them up to use different timing when it's hot out instead of using ST knock.

Is this why some people feel that after a good period of time that their tune feels less and less effective?

Like the vehicle's computer is adapting to the tune and trying to get things back to the stock parameters?

 

[N1ck]

Previously hitting 9.4-9.48's on HF tune.

Super happy with Jays service, 50+ emails and 10 tunes later he got it dialled in. Told me he'd figure it out and he did!

 

[N1ck]

On my phone so I'm limited to one photo per post.

 

[BlownGP]

Nice

 

[HammerHead]

On my phone so I'm limited to one photo per post.

That's what I'm talking about
Yeaaaaa buddy
I know you've been working hard to get your time down, congratulations. I know how good it feels, I had to work hard on mine too. Get out in that cold Canadian air one night, I know you got a 5.03 in it.

 

[jstacey8]

Well you convinced me