Whining/Growl Noise - Differential/Wheel-Bearing/Transmission (output shaft)

[1SLwLS1]

For the last few thousand miles, I have noticed a whining/growling noise. It happens under acceleration/coasting/deceleration from 20-140 MPH (haven't driven faster). The noise does not change with load nor engine speed, it only changes with wheel speed. The vehicle is a 2013 Ram 1500 4x2 with MMX SRT 392, 8HP70 swap (SGA), 3.92 OEM limited slip rear differential, and over 200K miles.

At first I was leaning toward rear differential as I have been somewhat abusive lately with fish-tailing and rough maneuvers. The fluid that was in it was Red Line 75W-140 changed about 2 years ago with 30K-35K miles. I was also thinking it could be transmission related (output shaft) as anyone who has seen my posts on the 8 speed swap thread knows, my used transmission was flooded and filled with nasty cheese prior to installation - I did my best to flush everything out but who knows. I then stumbled upon a wheel bearing video yesterday and the noise this 4-runner made was identical to the noise I was hearing.

Last week in a pinch, I replaced the differential fluid with OTC Valvoline synthetic 75W-140 (both new and old fluid have friction modifiers). I did not see any magic sparkles in the fluid and the drain plug looked relatively clean, see below. I also topped off the transmission fluid which took only a pump or two, so it was still full (level using the green ZF procedure). Last night I did the spin test and grabbed the wheels at 12:00 & 6:00 to test wheel bearings. This is my bet, rear wheel bearings. I also inspected the central driveshaft support bearing. The movement did not seem excessive and the rubber seemed compliant, this did not appear to be the culprit.

I did not want to fire the parts canon but with rear bearings only costing $20, that is the direction I am leaning. Thoughts?

Forgive the vertical videos, I only had the thought to record as I was doing the tests and I used my giant jack stands to support the phone.

Here is the noise loaded, driving down the road:

Whine/growl noise 2013 Ram 1500 - Driving down the road

Part of video series to help diagnose whine/growl noise.This video shows the noise upon deceleration and acceleration with rear end loaded driving on the road.

www.youtube.com

Here is the noise unloaded, stationary on jack stands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDNukIPLBAI

Here is the rear axle spin test, this is my bet:

Rear axle noise, possible wheel bearing

Part of video series to help diagnose whine/growl noise.This video shows the noise of the rear axle spinning both left and right rear wheels.

www.youtube.com

Here is the front spin test, I may have a sticking caliper slide-pin/bolt on the right front, but no real noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunLyFp7VlA

Here is draining the rear differential and condition of the plug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUOg8Ud12k

 

[ThorsRams]

Usually a wheel bearing has a grind noise or howl. That has a odd noise to it, my
Wheel bearing just went on my 19 ram a few weeks ago and it didn’t sound like that. It should shake back and forth like you said when you grab it at 12 and 6 and rock it back and forth. I’m curious what your issue is, hope you fix it.

 

[1SLwLS1]

We shall see soon enough, I will start teardown after work tonight to replace both of the rear bearings.

Did your front or rear wheel bearings go bad?

 

[ThorsRams]

We shall see soon enough, I will start teardown after work tonight to replace both of the rear bearings.

Did your front or rear wheel bearings go bad?

That was my front wheel bearing, I thought it was tire hum at first bc of the nittos wearing down a lil but it ended up eating the tires up in two weeks and it was a wheel bearing issue. Now I had to get new tires lol but hopefully it’s a easy fix for you and not a dam nightmare chasing things

 

[1SLwLS1]

If history and my pattern of overthinking things into oblivion is any indication, I will be chasing this noise, but hopefully that gets broken. This definitely sounds like my old truck with 37" super swampers but instead I am driving on 22" street Toyos. I will keep this thread posted with what I find tonight and hopefully the results tomorrow. I am really hoping I haven't let it go too long where the axles are significantly worn.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Those rear wheel bearings/diff sure don't sound right. I would do three things:

1) Leave the tires on, have a helper give it 'gas' ...and carefully put a long broomhandle to behind the front pinion bearing and other end to your ear. Listen to the bearing. Listen for noise. You can hear a bad bearing. Do the same by putting the broom handle to near the outer wheel bearings. Leave the wheels on for weight. You'll literally be able to hear the bearings rotating in there. Then 2) pull off the rotors and the driveshaft (don't remove driveshaft from tranny just yet), then rotate the pinion yoke at the diff, by had, feeling for bearing roughness. Same for the axles. Sounds like something going on inside the rear diff, or bearings.

3) Put it in N (engine off) and while the driveshaft is disconnected from the rear diff, rotate the driveshaft by hand and feel for roughness/noise on the tranny side. The output is a bushing and usually doesn't make noise. A certain amt of free-play is acceptible. It's the other stuff inside.

I wonder if part of the high-pitched noise could be an alternator and/or belt too. Multiple things maybe??


Your tk will go 140 mph?

 

[Jeepwalker]

Also, a number of Ram owners have reported a cracked diff carrier race too. It's normally not common, but seems to happen on some of these Rams. Might be worth googling or if there's a video or two out there.

 

[Aedude006]

Seems like the same issue I'm having, started a thread on it yesterday its right next to yours right now... good luck and let us know what you find. I'm leaning towards rear axle bearing also and I have to do the rear pads soon anyways.

 

[Wild one]

Those rear wheel bearings/diff sure don't sound right. I would do three things:

1) Leave the tires on, have a helper give it 'gas' ...and carefully put a long broomhandle to behind the front pinion bearing and other end to your ear. Listen to the bearing. Listen for noise. You can hear a bad bearing. Do the same by putting the broom handle to near the outer wheel bearings. Leave the wheels on for weight. You'll literally be able to hear the bearings rotating in there. Then 2) pull off the rotors and the driveshaft (don't remove driveshaft from tranny just yet), then rotate the pinion yoke at the diff, by had, feeling for bearing roughness. Same for the axles. Sounds like something going on inside the rear diff, or bearings.

3) Put it in N (engine off) and while the driveshaft is disconnected from the rear diff, rotate the driveshaft by hand and feel for roughness/noise on the tranny side. The output is a bushing and usually doesn't make noise. A certain amt of free-play is acceptible. It's the other stuff inside.

I wonder if part of the high-pitched noise could be an alternator and/or belt too. Multiple things maybe??


Your tk will go 140 mph?

Even a stock truck with just the limiter removed will pull upwards of 140 mph,lol. I've had mine to 155mph.I hit 174 in the wifes 6.4 Challenger before she made me slow down,lol.

 

[1SLwLS1]

Those rear wheel bearings/diff sure don't sound right. I would do three things:

1) Leave the tires on, have a helper give it 'gas' ...and carefully put a long broomhandle to behind the front pinion bearing and other end to your ear. Listen to the bearing. Listen for noise. You can hear a bad bearing. Do the same by putting the broom handle to near the outer wheel bearings. Leave the wheels on for weight. You'll literally be able to hear the bearings rotating in there. Then 2) pull off the rotors and the driveshaft (don't remove driveshaft from tranny just yet), then rotate the pinion yoke at the diff, by had, feeling for bearing roughness. Same for the axles. Sounds like something going on inside the rear diff, or bearings.

3) Put it in N (engine off) and while the driveshaft is disconnected from the rear diff, rotate the driveshaft by hand and feel for roughness/noise on the tranny side. The output is a bushing and usually doesn't make noise. A certain amt of free-play is acceptible. It's the other stuff inside.

I wonder if part of the high-pitched noise could be an alternator and/or belt too. Multiple things maybe??


Your tk will go 140 mph?

I will give that a shot tomorrow with my stethoscope if the rear wheel bearings weren’t the culprit. I just replaced them and have everything buttoned up except the cover as I am waiting on fluid, which should be here tomorrow. I am not hopeful, I just spun the wheels similar to one of my videos and the noise I thought was indicative of bad bearings, is still there, albeit those bearings are dry and not yet lubricated.

Either way, whatever the issue is, I will figure it out soon as the noise is getting louder and now can be heard starting at 10 MPH so if the bearings aren’t the ticket, catastrophic failure of the culprit is likely imminent.

The truck has a lot left in it beyond 140 (GPS based as OBD speedo stops at 129 MPH) - it has an SRT 392 with MMX NSR camshaft, ported 6.4 intake, long tube headers, etc. Now that it’s cold, I could probably see what it will really do. At those speeds, and this heavy old brick, it creates a lot of heat and I don’t trust those glass pistons in this engine, need some abandoned smooth highway and nice cool temps to see.

 

[Jeepwalker]

How did the oil look? So you pulled the axles? How did the outer bearings look? Axle clean? Did you rotate the carrier assembly by hand to feel for roughness? As high pitched as your sound was, I'd definitely give the pinion a good feel. And check your truck's front/rear u-joints. Sometimes u-joints get dry, or rusty and can make the darndest sounds.

Man, if you didn't check the carrier over well, or the pinion, ...since you haven't put lube in it yet, definitely feel the pinion action by hand before putting lube back in. If you have ANY doubts, I'd almost remove the rear cover (again), pop the axles back out, remove the driveshaft and feel everything again very carefully. Maybe even pop the main gear assembly out (just keep things where they are so you can put back in as came out) and check the bearings & race. Put back in if it all looks perfect. It's a lot easier and cheaper to verify all that stuff now than later on when it's a chipped-up and fused mess. The only thing you lose at this point is a little more work & having to clean the gasket material off and re-apply. You don't have to re-drain or re-clean anything at this point.

I've had a pinion bearing seize up on a Jeep (my wife actually). When they start making real bad noise which can happen suddenly if the cage breaks up, ya barely have enough time to pull over before the bearing melts/fuses. I've seen pinions shear before too and bust up a driveshaft (not my vehicle). But like i say check it before putting lube back in. If there's a bearing issue, most likely you'll feel it by hand. And don't forget the u-joints. Worst case everything checks out fine and you can move on to checking something else ...like the trans.

Keep us up to speed on what you're finding. good luck

 

[1SLwLS1]

The oil was only a week old and looked like it. Everything in there seemed okay, no roughness on anything. The ring gear had a well developed wear pattern. The old wheel bearings seemed okay which is why I’m not hopeful. I will disconnect driveshaft and give pinion a freer spin tomorrow but everything seemed okay. In my mind, the carrier assembly is a black box, it will be dealt with by a professional.

I will upload some daylight pictures tomorrow but nothing in there jumps out.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Well, so far so good. Yeah, check those things you mentioned and rotate the driveshaft in the trans. Inspect U-joints too. Pull off the rear U-joint caps. Make sure there's lube in there and the trunions aren't fluted. If they are, replace. Does your tk have a center driveshaft bearing? That can be a source of wear/noise/vibration as well.

That's about the best you can do right now. Yer sure it's not the alternator making noise, (or the belt/idler pulley), right?

 

[1SLwLS1]

Yes, I have a two-piece driveshaft with center support, I inspected it last week and it seemed okay. The rubber was fairly compliant, not hard or broken and no significant vibration or noise at the low speeds I achieved turning by hand.

I am positive this is not engine related, there is no association with engine RPM.

 

[Wild one]

When you had the axles out,how did the e-brakes look?

 

[danielmid]

Have you tried rotating tires to see if the noise moves around? I didn't see tires mentioned, but now that I've watched the videos I'm seeing it makes the noise even on jackstands.

The only thing that makes sense to me is rear diff related. Sounds pretty close to gear whine to me.

 

[1SLwLS1]

When you had the axles out,how did the e-brakes look?

About like they had 200K miles on them, haha. They were definitely old but nothing jumped out as definitely wrong.

Have you tried rotating tires to see if the noise moves around? I didn't see tires mentioned, but now that I've watched the videos I'm seeing it makes the noise even on jackstands.

The only thing that makes sense to me is rear diff related. Sounds pretty close to gear whine to me.

Yea it doesn't seem like u-joint noise, definitely bearing/differential noise. Either way, assuming I can get enough daylight, I will give the u-joints another look too.

If I can fix it or identify the issue before catastrophic failure, I may just pony up for Truetrac, but if the whole thing breaks like the pinion bearing seizes or something, I will probably just replace entire axle assembly with LKQ unit.

 

[danielmid]

About like they had 200K miles on them, haha. They were definitely old but nothing jumped out as definitely wrong.

Yea it doesn't seem like u-joint noise, definitely bearing/differential noise. Either way, assuming I can get enough daylight, I will give the u-joints another look too.

If I can fix it or identify the issue before catastrophic failure, I may just pony up for Truetrac, but if the whole thing breaks like the pinion bearing seizes or something, I will probably just replace entire axle assembly with LKQ unit.

Well since you have a 2wd, now would be the perfect time to drop in a TruTrac and regear if you wanted to, that way the entire rear diff gets rebuilt anyways. Trying to see some silver lining lol

 

[Jeepwalker]

Out of curiosity, is there a driveline shop in your area? Ask around there usually is in various areas ...and most people don't ever hear about them. They usually work on large trucks, dump trucks, driveshafts, things like that all day every day. Working on a pick-up is like a toy to them compared to commercial vehicles. They can usually pop out a pick-up's rear diff in blazing speed and get right to the root of the problem. (or do your upgrade).

 

[danielmid]

Out of curiosity, is there a driveline shop in your area? Ask around there usually is in various areas ...and most people don't ever hear about them. They usually work on large trucks, dump trucks, driveshafts, things like that all day every day. Working on a pick-up is like a toy to them compared to commercial vehicles. They can usually pop out a pick-up's rear diff in blazing speed and get right to the root of the problem. (or do your upgrade).

Or a 4x4 Jeep shop is where I ended up for mine, they were fantastic.