3.21 vs 3.92 Gear Ratio...will not be towing much.

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Farmer Fran

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https://tfltruck.com/2020/05/2021-c...pg-and-towing-specs-officially-revealed-news/

Doesn't look like it to me. Depends on trim, but I have more payload than most of those listed there, and also more towing capacity (when comparing 4x4 models to my 4x4). Looks like we're both kind of even for the most part.

But yes, it's a half ton platform with the same drivetrain as their 1500 trucks, it should have very similar numbers.


You are officially dead to me on this forum.

I said "FIND MY POST" and you pull an article from those mile high goofballs from nearly a year ago.
 
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ramffml

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You are officially dead to me on this forum.

I said "FIND MY POST" and you pull an article from those mile high goofballs from nearly a year ago.

Whatever just happened went well over my head.

Enjoy your evening, Farmer Fran.
 

KlatuBaradaNikto

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8 speed gear ratios:
1) 4.71:1
2) 3.14:1
3) 2.10:1
4) 1.67:1
5) 1.29:1
6) 1.00:1
7) 0.84:1
8) 0.67:1
REV: 3.30:1
AXLE RATIO 3.21. 3.92
1) 15.12. 18.46
2) 10.08. 12.31
3) 6.74. 8.23
4) 5.36. 6.55
5) 4.14. 5.06
6) 3.21. 3.92
7) 2.70. 3.29
8) 2.15. 2.63
REV 10.59. 12.94
Above numbers are final drive ratios for 2 WD.The 3.21 ratio will spin the rear axle about 81.9% of a 3.92 ratio.
 

fathermaxie

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And don't forget your tire diameter affects the final drive ratio just like the rear end gears, so if the base truck has 32.99s and you put on 34.83s you need to add that into the math, for any given ratio. Plus the weight of a real tire over the dealer tire adds inertia but let's forget that for now.
 

ramffml

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8 speed gear ratios:
1) 4.71:1
2) 3.14:1
3) 2.10:1
4) 1.67:1
5) 1.29:1
6) 1.00:1
7) 0.84:1
8) 0.67:1
REV: 3.30:1
AXLE RATIO 3.21. 3.92
1) 15.12. 18.46
2) 10.08. 12.31
3) 6.74. 8.23
4) 5.36. 6.55
5) 4.14. 5.06
6) 3.21. 3.92
7) 2.70. 3.29
8) 2.15. 2.63
REV 10.59. 12.94
Above numbers are final drive ratios for 2 WD.The 3.21 ratio will spin the rear axle about 81.9% of a 3.92 ratio.

Those numbers are for the ZF 8HP70. 5th gens use the ZF 8HP75 2nd generation, the ratios are slightly different:
5
3.2
2.14
1.72
1.31
1
0.82
0.64

3.21
16.05
10.272
6.8694
5.5212
4.2051
3.21
2.6322
2.0544

3.92
19.6
12.544
8.3888
6.7424
5.1352
3.92
3.2144
2.5088
 

Hackett

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I currently have a 2021 1500 4x4 5.7 with the 3.92. My last truck was a 2020 2WD 5.7 with a 3.21, I got about 17 mpg avg. Recently I took a trip to Houston and back towing an open motorcycle U Haul trailer. Empty half the trip and with a 900 lb bike in it back returning home. Empty trailer I got about 13 mpg. With the bike I avg 11.9 mpg. Speed avg was 70 mph. When I dont pull a trailer I get about 16-17 mpg. You will lose about 2 mpg with the 3.92. However, with the 3.92 it is a lot more fun cruising around town. Feels like you have about 10% more horsepower.
 
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Crazy how everyone says the 3.21s are better for fuel economy and more MPGs yet I am seeing you guys only averaging 17 mpg and I have 4.88s with 37" tires and I am getting 15 mpg driving around town with stop and go red lights and all ...
 

ramffml

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Crazy how everyone says the 3.21s are better for fuel economy and more MPGs yet I am seeing you guys only averaging 17 mpg and I have 4.88s with 37" tires and I am getting 15 mpg driving around town with stop and go red lights and all ...

Two things: your effective gear ratio is lower than 4.88 since you're also running super sized tires; in effect, the tire size is cancelling out the 4.88 gears (though I'm too lazy to do the math to figure out your actual number). You could be back down to 3.92 levels etc. The weight of your tires and lift will swing the results back into "using more gas" again, but how much... again, around town the effect of aero drag from your lift, and the effect of more unsprung weight from your tires is not as strong in the city as it is on the highway.

And secondly, around town there is no difference. I've mentioned this yesterday already, as long as you can continue to upshift into a taller gear and drop your rpms, you're not going to use more gas. You use gas when your rpms increase. That's why more gears = better mpg because there is more opportunity to upshift into a taller gear and drop your rpms again. (Taken to the extreme, this is why CVT transmissions are unbeatable in MPG. You can think of them as having like 20 to 30 gears; whatever speed you're driving at with a CVT, it will always use the lowest RPMs it can possibly use, while giving you just enough power to handle the requested load.) Out on the highway though, you're going to run out of gears sooner than a stock 3.21 will, and because you run out your only choice is to rev more and more and more, using more and more gas, where the 3.21 can still upshift and drop its RPMs.

Going from 15 to 17 mpg around town is much easier to do, than going from 23 to 25 mpg on the highway. In both cases it's only 2 mpgs, but it is far far harder once you reach that point out on the highway. That's why comparing city mileage (like you are doing) doesn't tell much of anything.
 

jeeplj8

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sounds way low mileage to me. Have a 2017 4X4 with 3.92 and on highway in 4auto average between 20.6 and 21.2. Never see under 20. Hummmm????????

my 4th gen typically got 19 on the highway. I could get more, sometimes got less. This 5th gen just does not get the mileage my 14 Limited got with the 5.7 and 3.92.
 

runamuck

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@runamuck I like what you said about the nimbleness of the 3.92. I don't have any lift or lowering kit on my 03, but would like it to be a bit more "peppy" vs. "dragging". I'm not looking to make it a race car, but a little 'get up & go' is desirable while still allowing me to two a couple of jet skis and small fishing boat.

What are yalls thoughts on a 3.92 in an 03?

I actually had an 03 back in the day. I drove one with the small v8 because it was being promoted as a fuel efficient option to the big v8 but I found that I had to have my foot in it to get it to handle like I wanted so figured that would cancel out any fuel savings so I bought the 5.7. it was a great truck but I traded for a new avalanche in '07. I got more for it than I owed so I was glad for that. if you dont mind spending the money, you would probably be happy with changing out the rear end. not that hard to do. I always get 4wd so for me if I didnt like the gearing I would just live with it till trade time because of the expense on a 4wd model.
 
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Two things: your effective gear ratio is lower than 4.88 since you're also running super sized tires; in effect, the tire size is cancelling out the 4.88 gears (though I'm too lazy to do the math to figure out your actual number). You could be back down to 3.92 levels etc. The weight of your tires and lift will swing the results back into "using more gas" again, but how much... again, around town the effect of aero drag from your lift, and the effect of more unsprung weight from your tires is not as strong in the city as it is on the highway.

And secondly, around town there is no difference. I've mentioned this yesterday already, as long as you can continue to upshift into a taller gear and drop your rpms, you're not going to use more gas. You use gas when your rpms increase. That's why more gears = better mpg because there is more opportunity to upshift into a taller gear and drop your rpms again. (Taken to the extreme, this is why CVT transmissions are unbeatable in MPG. You can think of them as having like 20 to 30 gears; whatever speed you're driving at with a CVT, it will always use the lowest RPMs it can possibly use, while giving you just enough power to handle the requested load.) Out on the highway though, you're going to run out of gears sooner than a stock 3.21 will, and because you run out your only choice is to rev more and more and more, using more and more gas, where the 3.21 can still upshift and drop its RPMs.

Going from 15 to 17 mpg around town is much easier to do, than going from 23 to 25 mpg on the highway. In both cases it's only 2 mpgs, but it is far far harder once you reach that point out on the highway. That's why comparing city mileage (like you are doing) doesn't tell much of anything.

I completely agree with you that with my size of tires and weight and all that I am back down to around 3.92s or 4.10s actually ... but my point is that even before I regeared with the 37s and 3.21s I was still getting up to 15 mpg ... when I didn't have the 37s on my truck I was getting up to 21 mpg with in town and freeway driving .... so I get it believe me everything you are saying is almost dead on ... but the whole point of this thread which I don't see you admitting to is that the OP asked for what he would be losing by going up to a 3.92 gear set ... which again IMO is nothing ... I am at probably the 3.92s with my 4.88s and 37s just like you just stated and I am getting 3.21 MPGs and some that have 3.21s with stock tires and not lifted are complaining that they can't even get 15 mpg lol !

We get the gear ratios, we get the rpms, we all probably do ... but what most people don't understand is that their personal driving habits is really what is going to determine what MPGs they get out of any truck with any gear set up combination ... as @the_goodguy07 he knows how I drive lol ... when I want to make sure I get the best MPGs out of my lifted truck I drive normal, I don't take off with the gas pedal to the floor when the light turns green, I don't break and take away the inertia my truck has coming to either a red light I am seeing up in the distance or if I am on the freeway I avoid the lanes I see the most traffic in ...

I hardly use my breaks when I drive and that helps a lot to keep your MPGs high because you are not affecting your truck/car's forward movement .... a lot of people drive and are constantly hitting the breaks and then have to hit the gas again to keep moving because they stopped that forward motion ... then they wonder why they don't get the MPGs their vehicles are supposed to get and on top of that they go through breaks 2-3 times a year ! lol

@ramffml stop and thing for a bit about what I just posted and just like most of what you have posted in this thread makes this post here should make sense too ..... we don't all drive the same way, 2 people, one having 3.21s and the other 3.92s can very well have the same MPGs driving their trucks differently ... some have led foots others are light as a feather .... too me all trucks should come with at least 3.92s and have the options for 4.10s and up to 4.88s from the factory ... but if they did that they wouldn't be able to get people in to their "stealerships" to install the gears there and offering their warranties ...

Before I went to regear to the 4.88s, the dealership quoted me $2200 for 4.56s gears if "they" did it and they would warranty it ... are you fawken kidding me ! lol .... they wouldn't go up to 4.88s for other warranty reasons which they couldn't explain at all lol ...

But again, 3.21s are good I am not going to lie, but you are not going to lose anything by going with the 3.92s to have more piece of mind and please lets not go back and forth again with the towing payloads and all that ok ? lol ... We all read 15 pages of that the last 2 days

Nothing to lose if someone chooses to go with the 3.92s if they are concerned about MPGs IMO ... people just need to understand driving habits will affect MPGs ...
 
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I actually had an 03 back in the day. I drove one with the small v8 because it was being promoted as a fuel efficient option to the big v8 but I found that I had to have my foot in it to get it to handle like I wanted so figured that would cancel out any fuel savings so I bought the 5.7. it was a great truck but I traded for a new avalanche in '07. I got more for it than I owed so I was glad for that. if you dont mind spending the money, you would probably be happy with changing out the rear end. not that hard to do. I always get 4wd so for me if I didnt like the gearing I would just live with it till trade time because of the expense on a 4wd model.


And that is one reason I decided to go with the 2wd instead of the 4.88s ... I had to think of the pros and cons of going with a 2wd and the ability to reagear later on to be able to get up to 40 inch tires like I eventually want to made getting a 2wd an easy choice for me .... I knew that MPGs on a truck were not going to be great with the plans I had for it .. and the only reason I bought the truck with the 3.21s was because that was the only thing available on the lot in this color that I liked lol .. I could of gotten a black, white or red 4x4 with 3.92s but I didn't like the colors and I was eventually going to regear for 37" tires and the cost would of been more than I wanted to pay for lol
 

ramffml

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we don't all drive the same way, 2 people, one having 3.21s and the other 3.92s can very well have the same MPGs driving their trucks differently

Absolutely, but that's not what matters here. Because unless the driver is purposely driving the trucks differently, the 3.21 will always get you better MPG. If you driving your truck get 19 mpg on the highway, well you would get higher than that driving my truck.

So when a guys talks about prioritizing MPG, he's still going to "miss" getting better MPG by buying a 3.92.

If the owner has a heavy foot, going to a 3.92 means he might get only 17 mpg instead of 20.
If the owner has a light foot, going to a 3.92 means he might get only 20 mpg instead of 23.

That is the context here, a guy wanting to prioritize MPG while occasionally towing a light trailer. I get that a lot of you guys here are enthusiasts and don't care as much about MPG, but when somebody specifically lays it out so black and white like the original post, I would never ever recommend the 3.92 over the 3.21 for his usage. The 3.21 is built for this exact scenario. To me, recommending the 3.92 here is just as wrong as recommending the 3.21 to someone like you who wants to run bigger tires. Each rear end has advantages and disadvantages.
 
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Absolutely, but that's not what matters here. Because unless the driver is purposely driving the trucks differently, the 3.21 will always get you better MPG. If you driving your truck get 19 mpg on the highway, well you would get higher than that driving my truck.

So when a guys talks about prioritizing MPG, he's still going to "miss" getting better MPG by buying a 3.92.

If the owner has a heavy foot, going to a 3.92 means he might get only 17 mpg instead of 20.
If the owner has a light foot, going to a 3.92 means he might get only 20 mpg instead of 23.

That is the context here, a guy wanting to prioritize MPG while occasionally towing a light trailer. I get that a lot of you guys here are enthusiasts and don't care as much about MPG, but when somebody specifically lays it out so black and white like the original post, I would never ever recommend the 3.92 over the 3.21 for his usage. The 3.21 is built for this exact scenario. To me, recommending the 3.92 here is just as wrong as recommending the 3.21 to someone like you who wants to run bigger tires. Each rear end has advantages and disadvantages.

Ok agree to disagree with you lol ... I had enough of back and forth lol ... you see his question differently than I do ... I am answering in regards as to what else he would be losing to your mpg priority which is only half of the full question ...
 

ramffml

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Ok agree to disagree with you lol ... I had enough of back and forth lol ... you see his question differently than I do ... I am answering in regards as to what else he would be losing to your mpg priority which is only half of the full question ...

I really do see his question differently than you. Let's look at it:

I am planning on buying a new 2021 RAM 1500 and call me crazy but I would like to achieve the best mileage possible with a V8... (really not sure about the diesel and noise, and $$$)
#1 Priority is the most quiet best riding 4x4, without paying a fortune and able to achieve the best mileage possible. Priority #2 - I won't be towing much maybe a small 2 person fishing boat short distances or a small trailer to haul stuff...under 100 miles.
Here is what I am looking at:
1500 Laramie (need me some cooled seats), Sport, V8, Laramie 2 package, Multi Function tail gate, anti spin diff, 33 gallon fuel tank, 22 inch tires, tow package.

What do I lose by not going with the 3.92 ? ARE there any other options I should consider?

Emphasis mine. Fair enough, if you want to say he loses the ability to run 37 inch tires, ok I guess. Nowhere in that question does he even hint at this. In fact, he even mentions the 22's so he probably wants to keep those. He wants a luxury truck. Quiet, Laramie, best mileage.

The Laramie is equally important when you say "he loses the ability to tow > 8000 pounds". Because with the Laramie trim, his payload will be so low that he can't tow > 8000 pounds anyway. The limiting factor is payload, not towing.

I too am going to stop. 16 pages and none of us are going to change our mind at this point anyway.
 

corneileous

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Absolutely, but that's not what matters here. Because unless the driver is purposely driving the trucks differently, the 3.21 will always get you better MPG. If you driving your truck get 19 mpg on the highway, well you would get higher than that driving my truck.

So when a guys talks about prioritizing MPG, he's still going to "miss" getting better MPG by buying a 3.92.

If the owner has a heavy foot, going to a 3.92 means he might get only 17 mpg instead of 20.
If the owner has a light foot, going to a 3.92 means he might get only 20 mpg instead of 23.

That is the context here, a guy wanting to prioritize MPG while occasionally towing a light trailer. I get that a lot of you guys here are enthusiasts and don't care as much about MPG, but when somebody specifically lays it out so black and white like the original post, I would never ever recommend the 3.92 over the 3.21 for his usage. The 3.21 is built for this exact scenario. To me, recommending the 3.92 here is just as wrong as recommending the 3.21 to someone like you who wants to run bigger tires. Each rear end has advantages and disadvantages.

Even though that is the case, you can’t just be dismissive about recommending the other gear ratio because people do have the tendency to change their mind on something later on down the road so that’s why I, and a few other’s recommendations for the 3.92’s is important. Gives the guy something to think about for if he ever does decide to put on 35’s, or if all the sudden he decides to get a travel trailer in the future, he might be glad he went with the lower gears or he might be kicking himself later on for getting the higher ones.

Nobody knows, that’s why in my opinion it’s better to be prepared rather than realizing you made a mistake later on, like that guy I mentioned that I talked to on Facebook who was pissed because I guess he just didn’t realize that 35’s on 3.21’s was gonna screw himself up so bad.

You can still get good mileage on the lower gears. Even though I have some of the best tires for mileage in my Michelin Defender LTX’s that are stock size, a good tonneau cover for lessening drag, the active grille shutters still in place and the aero-mode on my air suspension, I’m probably still not a good candidate for sharing my mileage because I do have a heavy right foot, a very badass-sounding exhaust and a $600 radar detector that does a damn good job sniffing out the Smokies.

But in response to your comment about LT tires, I also never said that those would increase your payload. That was you who assumed that, as well. I only brought up the subject of LT tires because yeah, when you are towing a 10k+ thousand-pound trailer, I can kinda see how some people would be ok with sacrificing their ride quality with the thicker rubber coupled with 65 to 80 psi depending on if they were 8-ply or 10-ply just to increase stability and as far as I’m concerned, if you’re only staying around 8,000, even your factory tires aired to the max of 44psi should be fine so those people who run 8 ply or 10 ply tires are probably giving a **** less about their payload and are probably doing just fine despite the limitations of payload.

And one last time, since it’s all about safety these days and limiting and protecting against lawsuits, I would not be surprised at all if Ram actually sets our GVWR’s on the lighter side from what it actually could be. If I ever had the time come up to do it, I could probably even prove that to be true being that since my air suspension actually only tries to level the back end out to certain point before it quits putting air in the rear bags, I could load the back of my truck to that point and then go weigh it to see if it stopped leveling at my payload rating or if it actually went beyond that because see, back when I pulled my buddy’s mustang to the tranny shop, the back end of my truck did not squat at all; and this was done with a heavy duty steel flatbed trailer with built in heavy duty ramps with a 2-5/16th ball hitch and 10-ply tires on it.

I didn’t have my fancy WeighSafe drop hitch yet with the built in tongue weight scale so I was using my regular ole straight hitch from Walmart that had all the ball sizes on it but even though I have no idea what that trailer weighed or how much his car weighed, we had it loaded to where his front tires was about dead center between the front of the trailer and the front of the trailer fenders so if my payload was exceeded, I have no idea. It was just me and my girlfriend in the front of the truck with my older tonneau cover on the back, the normal tool box and plastic tote I carry around that has a bunch of other “trunk” items in it, my plastic ramps to pull my back tires on to lower the back of the trailer enough so he didn’t rip his front clip off and about a 2x12x10 board’s worth of wooden blocks to help in loading his car. I really wish I would’ve weighed but but I never thought to do it.


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ramffml

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Even though that is the case, you can’t just be dismissive about recommending the other gear ratio because people do have the tendency to change their mind on something later on down the road so that’s why I, and a few other’s recommendations for the 3.92’s is important. Gives the guy something to think about for if he ever does decide to put on 35’s, or if all the sudden he decides to get a travel trailer in the future, he might be glad he went with the lower gears or he might be kicking himself later on for getting the higher ones.

Nobody knows, that’s why in my opinion it’s better to be prepared rather than realizing you made a mistake later on, like that guy I mentioned that I talked to on Facebook who was pissed because I guess he just didn’t realize that 35’s on 3.21’s was gonna screw himself up so bad.

You can still get good mileage on the lower gears. Even though I have some of the best tires for mileage in my Michelin Defender LTX’s that are stock size, a good tonneau cover for lessening drag, the active grille shutters still in place and the aero-mode on my air suspension, I’m probably still not a good candidate for sharing my mileage because I do have a heavy right foot, a very badass-sounding exhaust and a $600 radar detector that does a damn good job sniffing out the Smokies.

But in response to your comment about LT tires, I also never said that those would increase your payload. That was you who assumed that, as well. I only brought up the subject of LT tires because yeah, when you are towing a 10k+ thousand-pound trailer, I can kinda see how some people would be ok with sacrificing their ride quality with the thicker rubber coupled with 65 to 80 psi depending on if they were 8-ply or 10-ply just to increase stability and as far as I’m concerned, if you’re only staying around 8,000, even your factory tires aired to the max of 44psi should be fine so those people who run 8 ply or 10 ply tires are probably giving a **** less about their payload and are probably doing just fine despite the limitations of payload.

And one last time, since it’s all about safety these days and limiting and protecting against lawsuits, I would not be surprised at all if Ram actually sets our GVWR’s on the lighter side from what it actually could be. If I ever had the time come up to do it, I could probably even prove that to be true being that since my air suspension actually only tries to level the back end out to certain point before it quits putting air in the rear bags, I could load the back of my truck to that point and then go weigh it to see if it stopped leveling at my payload rating or if it actually went beyond that because see, back when I pulled my buddy’s mustang to the tranny shop, the back end of my truck did not squat at all; and this was done with a heavy duty steel flatbed trailer with built in heavy duty ramps with a 2-5/16th ball hitch and 10-ply tires on it.

I didn’t have my fancy WeighSafe drop hitch yet with the built in tongue weight scale so I was using my regular ole straight hitch from Walmart that had all the ball sizes on it but even though I have no idea what that trailer weighed or how much his car weighed, we had it loaded to where his front tires was about dead center between the front of the trailer and the front of the trailer fenders so if my payload was exceeded, I have no idea. It was just me and my girlfriend in the front of the truck with my older tonneau cover on the back, the normal tool box and plastic tote I carry around that has a bunch of other “trunk” items in it, my plastic ramps to pull my back tires on to lower the back of the trailer enough so he didn’t rip his front clip off and about a 2x12x10 board’s worth of wooden blocks to help in loading his car. I really wish I would’ve weighed but but I never thought to do it.


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You should have posted all that yesterday, but at this point I'm not arguing anymore, it's never going to end.

However you did just post a new point which I would like to respond to (once, lol):
since it’s all about safety these days and limiting and protecting against lawsuits, I would not be surprised at all if Ram actually sets our GVWR’s on the lighter side from what it actually could be.

I don't agree here either. These trucks are extremely competitive, and there is no room left on the table for any brand. They simply cannot afford to reduce their ratings, if anything, past history has shown them to be dishonest at times and increase them (or use non standard ratings), anything that might give them a leg up against their competitors. Thankfully now they all use the same "scale". And if you want to go into "I suspect" territory and ignore payload to tow more than the ratings, the 3.21 guys can just do that too and say "lol, my engine has lots of power left, I'm towing that 11000 TT anyway". Ratings are ratings, we (me anyway) don't ignore them, nor should we recommend that as a viable approach to others.
 
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