How much weight to tow

[josie]

Hello,

I am currently towing a 9k travel trailer mated to a 2020 ram big horn 2500 6.4l 3:73 8sp trans with a WD hitch set up just fine. My question is, are there any specs on how close to maximum 10k gvw on the truck with 14.4k gross tow weight you can go. I’m a cautious sort of guy so I would prefer to stay below the listed weights. I’m considering a fifth wheel but I don’t want to kill the tow vehicle with weights too close to maximum.

Thanks for your help

 

[Fake-Account27]

I have a Cummins and my truck is close to 9800 lbs when towing on longer trips. I have done this for thousands of miles without an issue.

The axle rating is 6k, so that is your real max. Go weigh the truck with just you in it to get an idea of how much weight is currently on the rear axle.

 

[OC455]

Knowing your trucks specific payload and towing capacity will help you know where you would be. Then knowing the pin/tongue weight and GVWR of the trailer you want to tow or are towing.

I'll use my truck because that's what I know...

14000 GVWR for my truck.

7708 lbs curb weight 6292 lbs payload
13792 lbs towing capacity (3.73 ger ratio) (21500 lbs GCVWR)

Family, dogs, extra items and 5th wheel hitch: 1700 lbs or so.

Let's use a Grand Design Reflection 150 278BH.
1321 lbs pin weight GVWR: 10195 Dry weight: 8345 lbs

Hands down I have a stupid payload capacity. With passengers, cargo and hitch at 1700 lbs I'm not near payload, add the 1321 lbs pin weight, the truck will be 10729 lbs....probably on the light side because the pin weight would probably be higher but still under GVWR for the truck (14000 lbs).

Assuming the trailer is loaded at max for gross weight (about 1850 lbs of cargo) 10195 lbs plus the truck as loaded, it would be at 20974 lbs and under GCVWR of 21500 lbs. 526 lbs of wiggle room..

SO anything heavier than a 11000 lbs GVWR trailer I would be over on GCVWR. I have the cargo capacity for a heavy pin weight, but not the towing capacity. If I had 4.10 gears, it would increase the GCVWR to 25000 lbs., adding another 3500 lbs of towing capacity.

You really have to put some numbers in and try to figure it out using what's there. Getting actual weights via CAT Scale or other means will get you where you need to be.

Finding a towing calculator helps to get it figured out: http://towcalculator.com/
PS: The only thing I don't like about the towing calculator listed is it doesn't let you enter the pin weight....it estimates the pin weight from 12.5% of the gross trailer weight.

 

[Irishthreeper]

We pull our 5W with a 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears and it does well. 5W is 8450 dry and about 10,500 loaded. It’s hitch weight is 1250 but loaded it’s about 1900 pounds in the truck bed. Payload is 3060, rear axle rated at 6300. Attached is a scale read out, hopefully it will help you make some determinations. BTW, with the RV weight and other stuff in the bed it totals about 2300 lbs and my truck only drops about 1 1/2 inches. Good luck!

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Hello,

I am currently towing a 9k travel trailer mated to a 2020 ram big horn 2500 6.4l 3:73 8sp trans with a WD hitch set up just fine. My question is, are there any specs on how close to maximum 10k gvw on the truck with 14.4k gross tow weight you can go. I’m a cautious sort of guy so I would prefer to stay below the .weights. I’m considering a fifth wheel but I don’t want to kill the tow vehicle with weights too close to maximum.

Thanks for your help

Payload is the key number

 

[josie]

Knowing your trucks specific payload and towing capacity will help you know where you would be. Then knowing the pin/tongue weight and GVWR of the trailer you want to tow or are towing.

I'll use my truck because that's what I know...

14000 GVWR for my truck.

7708 lbs curb weight 6292 lbs payload
13792 lbs towing capacity (3.73 ger ratio) (21500 lbs GCVWR)

Family, dogs, extra items and 5th wheel hitch: 1700 lbs or so.

Let's use a Grand Design Reflection 150 278BH.
1321 lbs pin weight GVWR: 10195 Dry weight: 8345 lbs

Hands down I have a stupid payload capacity. With passengers, cargo and hitch at 1700 lbs I'm not near payload, add the 1321 lbs pin weight, the truck will be 10729 lbs....probably on the light side because the pin weight would probably be higher but still under GVWR for the truck (14000 lbs).

Assuming the trailer is loaded at max for gross weight (about 1850 lbs of cargo) 10195 lbs plus the truck as loaded, it would be at 20974 lbs and under GCVWR of 21500 lbs. 526 lbs of wiggle room..

SO anything heavier than a 11000 lbs GVWR trailer I would be over on GCVWR. I have the cargo capacity for a heavy pin weight, but not the towing capacity. If I had 4.10 gears, it would increase the GCVWR to 25000 lbs., adding another 3500 lbs of towing capacity.

You really have to put some numbers in and try to figure it out using what's there. Getting actual weights via CAT Scale or other means will get you where you need to be.

Finding a towing calculator helps to get it figured out: http://towcalculator.com/
PS: The only thing I don't like about the towing calculator listed is it doesn't let you enter the pin weight....it estimates the pin weight from 12.5% of the gross trailer weight.

Thanks for your well thought out reply. It will help.

 

[josie]

We pull our 5W with a 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears and it does well. 5W is 8450 dry and about 10,500 loaded. It’s hitch weight is 1250 but loaded it’s about 1900 pounds in the truck bed. Payload is 3060, rear axle rated at 6300. Attached is a scale read out, hopefully it will help you make some determinations. BTW, with the RV weight and other stuff in the bed it totals about 2300 lbs and my truck only drops about 1 1/2 inches. Good luck!View attachment 479857

Thanks for your input..this will help with my decision. BTW Do you have any suspension mods on yours. Thinking of air bags on the rear but not sure about the front. The on and off bridge deck porpoising is brutal. Thanks again Irish.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Thanks for your input..this will help with my decision. BTW Do you have any suspension mods on yours. Thinking of air bags on the rear but not sure about the front. The on and off bridge deck porpoising is brutal. Thanks again Irish.

Don't you have a weight distribution hitch?

 

[Irishthreeper]

Thanks for your input..this will help with my decision. BTW Do you have any suspension mods on yours. Thinking of air bags on the rear but not sure about the front. The on and off bridge deck porpoising is brutal. Thanks again Irish.

I don’t have air bags with the 2500. Like I said, the truck only drops about 1 1/2 inches when loaded so it’s almost perfectly level. I’m assuming your payload is about 2900 lbs which should easily accommodate a 5th wheel as long as you have a modest hitch weight. (12-1500lbs?) That should also keep you well under your max 10k lb truck weight and rear axle rating. The 2500 Hemi is an excellent 5th wheel platform, just don’t over-do the payload or max the towed weight. We did a 7000+ mile trip this summer and it was always an easy pull, even in head and cross winds in S Dakota and Wyoming. Just don’t look at your mpg when going uphill against that wind, lol

 

[josie]

Thanks again, I do believe our trucks are similar as far as weights go. I have a 35 ft TT with 850 tongue wt and 9500 gross trailer wt. I am thinking 5wheel but I do not want to max out the truck. I have a few in mind that I think would work but pin wts are still 1600 to 1800 with gtw at 11500 to 12500 for a 38 ft. Im just not sure how close to the max wt on the truck is too close. I’m not thinking air bags so much to level the load but to dampen the porpoising on and off bridge deck. Maybe 5wheels don’t porpoise on an off bridge decks And maybe a heavier duty shock would work. Everything on my truck is oem with being purchased in January. Thanks again Irish. Sorry I wrote so much and I do love the mpg/not. Not so much the mpg but finding gas stations I can get in to.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Thanks again, I do believe our trucks are similar as far as weights go. I have a 35 ft TT with 850 tongue wt and 9500 gross trailer wt. I am thinking 5wheel but I do not want to max out the truck. I have a few in mind that I think would work but pin wts are still 1600 to 1800 with gtw at 11500 to 12500 for a 38 ft. Im just not sure how close to the max wt on the truck is too close. I’m not thinking air bags so much to level the load but to dampen the porpoising on and off bridge deck. Maybe 5wheels don’t porpoise on an off bridge decks And maybe a heavier duty shock would work. Everything on my truck is oem with being purchased in January. Thanks again Irish. Sorry I wrote so much and I do love the mpg/not. Not so much the mpg but finding gas stations I can get in to.

weight distribution hitch?

 

[2003F350]

Payload is the key number

Payload is more a guideline. Gross axle ratings are more important. If you overload the axles you're likely going to destroy bearings.

 

[2003F350]

Thanks again, I do believe our trucks are similar as far as weights go. I have a 35 ft TT with 850 tongue wt and 9500 gross trailer wt. I am thinking 5wheel but I do not want to max out the truck. I have a few in mind that I think would work but pin wts are still 1600 to 1800 with gtw at 11500 to 12500 for a 38 ft. Im just not sure how close to the max wt on the truck is too close. I’m not thinking air bags so much to level the load but to dampen the porpoising on and off bridge deck. Maybe 5wheels don’t porpoise on an off bridge decks And maybe a heavier duty shock would work. Everything on my truck is oem with being purchased in January. Thanks again Irish. Sorry I wrote so much and I do love the mpg/not. Not so much the mpg but finding gas stations I can get in to.

A 2500 with the 6.4 will have a much higher payload than a Cummins, since the engine is lighter. However, it's Gross Axle weights you want to watch out for. With the 6.4, I wouldn't hesitate to pull a pretty good sized fifth wheel with it, as long as you're not getting over that Gross Rear Axle Rating.

As for porpoising, if youre getting that then your WD isn't set up properly. I mean there will likely always be SOME, but it should be minimal. And air bags will likely only mask the issue.

5th wheels will still porpoise on large bumps. I've hauled just about everything there is out there, from a 22' travel trailer to a 44' fifth wheel. They will all do it over large bumps. Setup is key to fighting it, and air bags don't always help. They're not a one-size-fits-all solution.

I pull a 35' travel trailer with the Power Wagon, which basically is a 2500 with soft springs. No bags, properly adjusted WD hitch (chain style) and a stand-alone sway bar, and have minimal sway at 65mph and minimal porpoising unless it's a REALLY bad road.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Payload is more a guideline. Gross axle ratings are more important. If you overload the axles you're likely going to destroy bearings.

And what happens if you go over your payload number? Don't you 'destroy' the bearings?

 

[2003F350]

And what happens if you go over your payload number? Don't you 'destroy' the bearings?

Not necessarily. The bearings in the axles are rated to handle the Gross Axle Weight, which is typically MORE than the rated payload. Generally if you go over payload your truck may get squirrely, but the chances of you breaking something are not too high. If you go over your Gross Axle Ratings, you risk damaging parts.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Not necessarily. The bearings in the axles are rated to handle the Gross Axle Weight, which is typically MORE than the rated payload. Generally if you go over payload your truck may get squirrely, but the chances of you breaking something are not too high. If you go over your Gross Axle Ratings, you risk damaging parts.

I suggest you read up on all the weight ratings numbers and understand how they interrelate.

 

[dhay13]

I suggest you read up on all the weight ratings numbers and understand how they interrelate.

I'm part of the 'payload police' here...lol. But think I agree with F350 here. While payload should be adhered to the GAWR are higher in terms of if you max out both you are over payload. I don't think going over payload will over stress bearings, etc but going over GAWR will. However I feel going over payload can stress brakes, etc. but not axles and bearings as long as you are under GAWR. I could be wrong but if you think about it it makes sense. Not arguing that payload doesn't matter but it is more about which parts may be stressed by exceeding which number.

Example, my GAWRs are 6500 and 5500 = 12,000. My GVWR is 10,000 and payload is 2973. If I load my truck to 10,000lbs and don't exceed either axles GAWR I'm fine all the way around. If I am at 10,000lbs but my rear is at 6600 and front at 3400 then I have exceeded my GRAWR but not my payload (probably pretty hard to do). This can stress the axles and bearings because most of the weight is on 1 axle. Now if I'm at 11,000lbs then I'm 1000 over my payload but if my rear is at 6000 and front at 5000 then my axles and bearings should be fine. Steering would likely be fine too since I am still pretty well balanced but I am over payload. That may affect my brakes, trans, etc. but not the axles or bearings cause they are still within limits.

 

[dhay13]

I'm part of the 'payload police' here...lol. But think I agree with F350 here. While payload should be adhered to the GAWR are higher in terms of if you max out both you are over payload. I don't think going over payload will over stress bearings, etc but going over GAWR will. However I feel going over payload can stress brakes, etc. but not axles and bearings as long as you are under GAWR. I could be wrong but if you think about it it makes sense. Not arguing that payload doesn't matter but it is more about which parts may be stressed by exceeding which number.

Example, my GAWRs are 6500 and 5500 = 12,000. My GVWR is 10,000 and payload is 2973. If I load my truck to 10,000lbs and don't exceed either axles GAWR I'm fine all the way around. If I am at 10,000lbs but my rear is at 6600 and front at 3400 then I have exceeded my GRAWR but not my payload (probably pretty hard to do). This can stress the axles and bearings because most of the weight is on 1 axle. Now if I'm at 11,000lbs then I'm 1000 over my payload but if my rear is at 6000 and front at 5000 then my axles and bearings should be fine. Steering would likely be fine too since I am still pretty well balanced but I am over payload. That may affect my brakes, trans, etc. but not the axles or bearings cause they are still within limits.

It's not easy to decipher. I saw a youtube the other day (Hotshot Macc) who has a 2020 2500 Cummins with a gooseneck. He had to move weight cause he wasn't legal cause he was at about 26,240lbs. He unloaded a few old tarps, etc to get to under 26,000. However his truck axles weighed about 10,120 and he stated he was legal as per DOT and showed his CAT slip. https://youtu.be/1gNeHr-QVaw

Given that, I still wouldn't feel comfortable going over GVWR for liability reasons. It may be ok criminally but like I said before, juries aren't always the most informed people and if the other side gets an expert witness up there that says you were over payload then you may have just lost your civil case, maybe your house, etc. At a minimum you now have to go hire and pay for your own expert to retort this so even if you win your case you are still out possibly 10's of thousands of dollars

 

[Zoe Saldana]

I'm part of the 'payload police' here...lol. But think I agree with F350 here. While payload should be adhered to the GAWR are higher in terms of if you max out both you are over payload. I don't think going over payload will over stress bearings, etc but going over GAWR will. However I feel going over payload can stress brakes, etc. but not axles and bearings as long as you are under GAWR. I could be wrong but if you think about it it makes sense. Not arguing that payload doesn't matter but it is more about which parts may be stressed by exceeding which number.

Example, my GAWRs are 6500 and 5500 = 12,000. My GVWR is 10,000 and payload is 2973. If I load my truck to 10,000lbs and don't exceed either axles GAWR I'm fine all the way around. If I am at 10,000lbs but my rear is at 6600 and front at 3400 then I have exceeded my GRAWR but not my payload (probably pretty hard to do). This can stress the axles and bearings because most of the weight is on 1 axle. Now if I'm at 11,000lbs then I'm 1000 over my payload but if my rear is at 6000 and front at 5000 then my axles and bearings should be fine. Steering would likely be fine too since I am still pretty well balanced but I am over payload. That may affect my brakes, trans, etc. but not the axles or bearings cause they are still within limits.

When people complicate things, you can tell they are trying to justify their position.
Here's a link officer.

HOW TO DETERMINE YOUR TRAILER TOW LIMIT - Carry-On Trailer

Towing a trailer may seem like a simple process. You hitch your trailer to your vehicle, load your cargo, and hit the road, right?

www.carry-ontrailer.com

Simpler is better for the truth.

Payload is the weight you can control.

# Payload on Truck sticker
Subtract - Passengers weight over 150 or 200lbs that is included in the sticker
Subtract - Tools and stuff added to the truck
Subtract - hitch weight
Subtract - if you tires are a lower load rating then original

Equals amount of weight available for tongue/goose neck weight of your trailer. Also note that the tongue weight need to be done with a loaded trailer on a scale.

In your example you do not do the math above.

That's a fact jack!

 

[dhay13]

When people complicate things, you can tell they are trying to justify their position.
Here's a link officer.

HOW TO DETERMINE YOUR TRAILER TOW LIMIT - Carry-On Trailer

Towing a trailer may seem like a simple process. You hitch your trailer to your vehicle, load your cargo, and hit the road, right?

www.carry-ontrailer.com

Simpler is better for the truth.

Payload is the weight you can control.

# Payload on Truck sticker
Subtract - Passengers weight over 150 or 200lbs that is included in the sticker
Subtract - Tools and stuff added to the truck
Subtract - hitch weight
Subtract - if you tires are a lower load rating then original

Equals amount of weight available for tongue/goose neck weight of your trailer. Also note that the tongue weight need to be done with a loaded trailer on a scale.

In your example you do not do the math above.

That's a fact jack!

Was that directed at me? Do some reading. I have been preaching payload limits for years on here so I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. But my post was to explain that payload doesn't necessarily hurt the bearings as long as you are under GAWR. And yes Einstein (hey you started it...lol) people, cups of coffee, etc all count towards payload. Trust me, I know all about how it is calculated. There was no reason to do the math as we weren't calculating anything, just saying if you go over then....