Buying a newer truck and have some questions

AkNoad2 · Feb 28, 2022

I'm looking at buying a newer truck here pretty soon and I'd like to get some info from the knowledgeable folks here. I do a fair amount of towing, I've got several trailers and the biggest is a 22ft enclosed aluminum trailer that I haul our sleds and Argo ( max weight with either is somewhere between 4-5k lbs) in, my current truck pulls it pretty easily (3.55 gears) so I'm thinking I need to stick with at least the 3.55 in my next truck but is the 3.21 capable to pull this or will it struggle? The reason I ask is because there is a much larger selection of 1500's with the 3.21 gears when compared to the 3.55 or 3.73. I've also considered buying a 2500 with the 5.7 hemi but is that really enough engine for that truck, or would the 6.4 be better? And what year did Ram start using the Bluetooth in their trucks, allowing you to use your phone and play music without using a cord ( my 2010 has to use a cord to play music from my phone)? I'm sure i'll have more questions later on.

AkNoad2 · Feb 28, 2022

Looking at a 2016 Rebel, black, CC, 3.92 axle ratio, has everything I want in a truck but curious about the mileage and price, 76,662 miles and they're asking $41,995, is that a decent price or too high? Been a while since I bought a new to me truck.

indept · Feb 28, 2022

Way too high in price. That said, covid has caused the used vehicle market to skyrocket. My advice would be, unless your truck is on it's last leg, to wait until things get closer to normal. Or look into new trucks. Loan rate on new vehicles are much lower than for used ones. I've seen people get into a new car or truck for less thN a used truck would cost.

As for rears, your only choice from the factory with a hemi is either the 3.21 or 3.92. The V6 gets the 3.55.

jawzs2 · Feb 28, 2022

Your current has the 5 speed Automatic - 545RFE, newer trucks have either a 6 or 8 speed, one or three more gears, so you really won't notice the gear difference that much. But with that said, my preference would be the 8 spd with 3.21's

I have a 2014 3500 with the 5.7L\3.73 gears and it tows my roughly 8,000 TT without issues, although the 6.4L would probably be better if I went with a heavier camper.

They added Bluetooth streaming in 2011, I bought a 2011 module off e-bay to add streaming to my truck. (depends on the radio you have, the 2010 RER has bluetooth built-in and you'd need to replace the radio itself with an RHR to add streaming)

ramffml · Feb 28, 2022

A 3.21 will probably have a deeper first gear and a taller final gear than your current truck with 3.55. If you're happy with the performance of your truck, don't worry about the 3.21, it's a great option especially with todays gas prices and will tow it better than your 3.55 will due to the 8 speed transmission.

healthyrx · Feb 28, 2022

AkNoad2 said:
Looking at a 2016 Rebel, black, CC, 3.92 axle ratio, has everything I want in a truck but curious about the mileage and price, 76,662 miles and they're asking $41,995, is that a decent price or too high? Been a while since I bought a new to me truck.

Just to give you an idea, I got my 2017 1500 4wd 3.92 gear CC Sport night edition with 15k miles on Carvana for 45k otd in December

Jeepwalker · Feb 28, 2022

I wonder ...if you wait a little longer ..and eventually Putin has his back up against the wall, blames the USA for helping the Ukrainians and does something absolutely stupid and we get pulled into the war (very likely to happen as his back gets up against the wall), there might be a much wider war. Very good chance that could happen.

In that case, the tk and other markets are going to go down. Could be a little, could be a ton. Right now it's at all-time historical highs, so I highly doubt the market will go 'up' any. You might be best off to sell your tk to Carvana outright (like next week!), drive your wife's SUV/car for a couple months and sit on the sidelines and see how things go.

If things go south, you might be able to pick up a brand new one (as chips filter in), or a used one for a heck of a lot less ..if the market nosedives. If nothing changes, then you havent missed out on anything.

Just a thought.

Oh, and to better answer your question on engine size & gearing: you didn't mention where you live and what conditions (and terrain), and distances you tow. If you did mention it, sorry, I didn't see it. For example: are you driving/towing up the rockies for 15 minutes from your house? Or driving 8 hours and then up the front range?? Towing that trailer on flat land? It might help guys guide you.

Ram Night · Feb 28, 2022

AkNoad2 said:
I'm looking at buying a newer truck here pretty soon and I'd like to get some info from the knowledgeable folks here. I do a fair amount of towing, I've got several trailers and the biggest is a 22ft enclosed aluminum trailer that I haul our sleds and Argo ( max weight with either is somewhere between 4-5k lbs) in, my current truck pulls it pretty easily (3.55 gears) so I'm thinking I need to stick with at least the 3.55 in my next truck but is the 3.21 capable to pull this or will it struggle? The reason I ask is because there is a much larger selection of 1500's with the 3.21 gears when compared to the 3.55 or 3.73. I've also considered buying a 2500 with the 5.7 hemi but is that really enough engine for that truck, or would the 6.4 be better? And what year did Ram start using the Bluetooth in their trucks, allowing you to use your phone and play music without using a cord ( my 2010 has to use a cord to play music from my phone)? I'm sure i'll have more questions later on.

You will be better off getting the 3:92 gears. I have had them on all of my rams and never had any problems pulling anything I wanted to pull.

Ram Night · Feb 28, 2022

AkNoad2 said:
Looking at a 2016 Rebel, black, CC, 3.92 axle ratio, has everything I want in a truck but curious about the mileage and price, 76,662 miles and they're asking $41,995, is that a decent price or too high? Been a while since I bought a new to me truck.

This is way to much for this truck. I gave a little more for a new one in 17. And be aware that the air ride system has serious problems. I would avoid it all together.

ramffml · Mar 1, 2022

Ram Night said:
You will be better off getting the 3:92 gears. I have had them on all of my rams and never had any problems pulling anything I wanted to pull.

He will be better off getting a cummins 2500 but "better off" is the wrong question and not what he wants to know.

His current truck "pulls it easily" according to him, and the 3.21 will pull that same trailer even easier. So to answer his question that he asked, no, the 3.21 will not struggle.

JPT · Mar 1, 2022

I bought my 2015 Big Horn in 2017 with 28k miles on it with Mopar MaxCare lifetime warranty for $32k+tax. It has the 32 gallon tank 3.92 gears, 8.4" U-connect, side steps, and heated power fold mirrors (non-tow).

AndreaFleetGal · Mar 1, 2022

I thought this might be helpful. Let me know if anyone needs help reading it.

Screenshot_20220301-074806_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

AkNoad2 · Mar 1, 2022

Jeepwalker said:
I wonder ...if you wait a little longer ..and eventually Putin has his back up against the wall, blames the USA for helping the Ukrainians and does something absolutely stupid and we get pulled into the war (very likely to happen as his back gets up against the wall), there might be a much wider war. Very good chance that could happen.

In that case, the tk and other markets are going to go down. Could be a little, could be a ton. Right now it's at all-time historical highs, so I highly doubt the market will go 'up' any. You might be best off to sell your tk to Carvana outright (like next week!), drive your wife's SUV/car for a couple months and sit on the sidelines and see how things go.

If things go south, you might be able to pick up a brand new one (as chips filter in), or a used one for a heck of a lot less ..if the market nosedives. If nothing changes, then you havent missed out on anything.

Just a thought.

Oh, and to better answer your question on engine size & gearing: you didn't mention where you live and what conditions (and terrain), and distances you tow. If you did mention it, sorry, I didn't see it. For example: are you driving/towing up the rockies for 15 minutes from your house? Or driving 8 hours and then up the front range?? Towing that trailer on flat land? It might help guys guide you.

I live in Alaska and in the winter I tow my enclosed trailer just about every weekend, roughly 230 rounds trip with occasional trips to other areas to ride, in the summer I pull that trailer with either our Argo or my sxs in it. I don't usually have to deal with any big hills or mtns when I'm towing with my truck. Another reason i'm looking for another truck is I want the crew cab instead of the quad cab.

Appreciate the feedback so far and I'm encouraged to hear that the 3.21 gears should be fine in the newer trucks. I'm not planning on selling my current ride anytime soon as there are a few issues I need to fix first and I'm also in no hurry to buy one, I was just getting a jump on what info I needed before I got around to making an offer on a truck. Anyone here tow with the 3.21 gears tell me what kind of gas mileage you get so I can compare it to my truck? I get roughly 9-10mpg towing my enclosed and closer to 12 pulling my 20ft flatbed trailer.

ramffml · Mar 1, 2022

AkNoad2 said:
I live in Alaska and in the winter I tow my enclosed trailer just about every weekend, roughly 230 rounds trip with occasional trips to other areas to ride, in the summer I pull that trailer with either our Argo or my sxs in it. I don't usually have to deal with any big hills or mtns when I'm towing with my truck. Another reason i'm looking for another truck is I want the crew cab instead of the quad cab.

Appreciate the feedback so far and I'm encouraged to hear that the 3.21 gears should be fine in the newer trucks. I'm not planning on selling my current ride anytime soon as there are a few issues I need to fix first and I'm also in no hurry to buy one, I was just getting a jump on what info I needed before I got around to making an offer on a truck. Anyone here tow with the 3.21 gears tell me what kind of gas mileage you get so I can compare it to my truck? I get roughly 9-10mpg towing my enclosed and closer to 12 pulling my 20ft flatbed trailer.

You will get the same MPG towing with the 8 speed, both the 3.21 and 3.92 will give you the same MPG since the 3.21 cannot hold 8th gear it will not be able to gain any fuel efficiency over the 3.92. More than likely you will tow in 6th with the 3.21 and 7th if you got the 3.92, both those gears end up putting you at the same RPMs (give or take).

Unloaded, the 3.21 gives you about 2 to 3 mpg better on the highway; in the city it's probably identical.

So the MPG of the 3.21 is all about 8th gear. If you're not using 8th with the 3.21 then you're not saving fuel compared to the 3.92.

I get between 8 and 11 mpg towing my TT with 3.21, depends on speed though I usually hang out at 65 mph, biggest variable seems to be headwind vs tailwind, I don't see much mountain towing.

Phirebeard · Mar 1, 2022

I pull my popup(2500lbs plus gear) with my 5.7/3.21. I hardly notice it's there. Varied hills and get 16-17mpg.

AkNoad2 · Mar 1, 2022

ramffml said:
You will get the same MPG towing with the 8 speed, both the 3.21 and 3.92 will give you the same MPG since the 3.21 cannot hold 8th gear it will not be able to gain any fuel efficiency over the 3.92. More than likely you will tow in 6th with the 3.21 and 7th if you got the 3.92, both those gears end up putting you at the same RPMs (give or take).

Unloaded, the 3.21 gives you about 2 to 3 mpg better on the highway; in the city it's probably identical.

So the MPG of the 3.21 is all about 8th gear. If you're not using 8th with the 3.21 then you're not saving fuel compared to the 3.92.

I get between 8 and 11 mpg towing my TT with 3.21, depends on speed though I usually hang out at 65 mph, biggest variable seems to be headwind vs tailwind, I don't see much mountain towing.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing!

AkNoad2 · Mar 2, 2022

Holy hell the price of trucks has skyrocketed, especially if you're looking for a somewhat low mile rig but even the higher mileage trucks are spendy. I spent the good part of the day yesterday sorting out trucks online and are eliminating those that don't have the options that I want. I did find a really nice 2017 Laramie Longhorn with 42k miles on it, it has every option that I want except for a block heater which is a necessity up here and it's at a BMW dealership so I don't know if that's something they would add. Maybe I'm being a bit **** about this (my wife thinks I am about the above truck) but for the money I'm looking at spending I should be able to get what I want.

Kind of off subject but how do those Power Wagons with the 6.4 Hemi and 4.10 gears do on gas? It's probably more truck than I need but they are nice looking trucks.

RBJRBJ · Mar 3, 2022

I found the post below on one of the RAM Forums … another member, an engineer posted this on transmission gear ratios (sorry can’t remember who deserves the credit) and it is very informative:

I hope this post will help to end the debate with facts and not opinions, and become THE post people refer to those who are having a hard time deciding.

You already know that 3.92 is better for towing, and 3.21 gets better fuel economy, so I will talk about what you might not know

Bottom line up front:

In layman's terms, to conceptualize the difference, imagine

1) 5 out the of 8 gears have the same final drive ratio between 3.21 and 3.92.

2) 3.21 has "an extra" overdrive gear.

3) 3.21 has 2 unique lower gears for towing.

4) 3.92 has 3 unique lower gears for towing.

5) Speed range that 3.21 is better at towing: 31-38 MPH, 48-57 MPH.

6) Speed range that 3.92 is better at towing: 0-30 MPH, 39-47MPH, 58-70 MPH.

Explanation

1) 5 out the of 8 gears have the same final drive ratio between 3.21 and 3.92:

Here's the gear ratio for the 8 speed transmission:
1) 4.71:1 2) 3.14:1 3) 2.10:1 4) 1.67:1 5) 1.29:1 6) 1.00:1 7) 0.84:1 8) 0.67:1 Reverse) 3.30:1

Final drive ratios with 3.21

1st. 15.12, 2nd. 10.10, 3rd. 6.74, 4th. 5.36, 5th. 4.14, 6th. 3.21, 7th. 2.70, 8th. 2.15, R 10.6

Final drive ratios with 3.92

1st. 18.46, 2nd. 12.31, 3rd. 8.23, 4th. 6.55, 5th. 5.06, 6th. 3.92, 7th. 3.29, 8th. 2.62, R 12.94

From the list below, we can see that gears 3-7 in 3.21 matches gears 4-8 in 3.92:

-- NO MATCH -- = 18.46 - 1st - 3.92
3.21 - 1st - 15.12 = -- NO MATCH --
-- NO MATCH -- = 12.31 - 2nd - 3.92
3.21 - 2nd - 10.1 = -- NO MATCH --
-- NO MATCH -- = 8.23 - 3rd - 3.92
3.21 - 3rd - 6.74 = 6.55 - 4th - 3.92
3.21 - 4th - 5.36 = 5.06 - 5th - 3.92
3.21 - 5th - 4.14 = 3.92 - 6th - 3.92
3.21 - 6th - 3.21 = 3.29 - 7th - 3.92
3.21 - 7th - 2.70 = 2.62 - 8th - 3.92
3.21 - 8th - 2.15 = -- NO MATCH --

2) 3.21 has "an extra" overdrive gear:

The 8th gear in 3.92 is the 7th gear in 3.21, thus effectively mean the 8th gear in the 3.21 is an extra gear to the 3.92.

Meaning, when you go test drive the 3.21 you will have to downshift to 7th to get the same acceleration at 3.92's 8th on freeways. That is why some people complain about how "sloppy" the 3.21 is, because the 3.21 has an extra overdrive gear for fuel economy. If you shift 3.21 in 7th gear, you will get the same acceleration as the 3.92 in 8th on the freeway. No, 3.21 isn't sloppy, you're just in a gear that 3.92 does not have.

3) 3.21 has 2 unique lower gears for towing:

As we know from 1), 5 gears have the same final drive ratio.
You "gain" an overdrive gear, but you "lose" one towing gear.
Here's the final drive ratio for the 2 towing gears.
1st. 15.12, 2nd. 10.10,

4) 3.92 has 3 unique lower gears for towing:

Same logic as the last
Final drive for 3 towing gears.
1st. 18.46, 2nd. 12.31, 3rd. 8.23.

5) Speed range where 3.21 is better at towing: 31-38 MPH, 48-57 MPH,
AND
6) Speed range where 3.92 is better at towing: 0-30 MPH, 39-47MPH, 58-70 MPH:

Calculated towing shift point to be 6000 rpm, if I'm off the logic is the same but the speed will vary.

For towing,
From the speed 0-30 MPH, 3.92 has higher final drive ratio over 3.21 (18.46 vs 15.12) until it has to shift to 2nd gear at 30MPH.

From the speed 31-38 MPH, 3.21 has higher final drive ratio over 3.92 (15.12 vs 12.31) until it has to shift to 2nd gear at 38MPH.

From the speed 39-47 MPH, 3.92 has higher final drive ratio over 3.21 (12.31 vs 10.10) until it has to shift to 3rd gear at 47 MPH.

From the speed 48-57 MPH, 3.21 has higher final drive ratio over 3.92 (10.10 vs 8.23) until it has to shift to 3rd gear at 57 MPH.

From the speed 58-70 MPH, 3.92 has higher final drive ratio over 3.21 (8.23 vs 6.74) until it has to shift to 4th gear at 70 MPH.

The key takeaway here is that towing heavier trailers uphill with 3.21 might never reach the desired speed within the 58-70 MPH range (typical highway towing speed) because 3.21 jumps from 10.10 to 6.74 without the 8.23 final drive ratio found in 3.92 that really help maintaining highway towing speed at max load.

Do you value the "extra" overdrive gear for fuel economy? or do you value the extra towing capability that you tell yourself you might one day need? That's up to you.

b-real · Mar 3, 2022

If you find a truck that meets your needs aside from gears, you can always swap gears.

ramffml · Mar 3, 2022

RBJRBJ said:
I found the post below on one of the RAM Forums … another member, an engineer posted this on transmission gear ratios (sorry can’t remember who deserves the credit) and it is very informative:

I hope this post will help to end the debate with facts and not opinions, and become THE post people refer to those who are having a hard time deciding.

You already know that 3.92 is better for towing, and 3.21 gets better fuel economy, so I will talk about what you might not know

Bottom line up front:

In layman's terms, to conceptualize the difference, imagine

1) 5 out the of 8 gears have the same final drive ratio between 3.21 and 3.92.

2) 3.21 has "an extra" overdrive gear.

3) 3.21 has 2 unique lower gears for towing.

4) 3.92 has 3 unique lower gears for towing.

5) Speed range that 3.21 is better at towing: 31-38 MPH, 48-57 MPH.

6) Speed range that 3.92 is better at towing: 0-30 MPH, 39-47MPH, 58-70 MPH.

Explanation

1) 5 out the of 8 gears have the same final drive ratio between 3.21 and 3.92:

Here's the gear ratio for the 8 speed transmission:
1) 4.71:1 2) 3.14:1 3) 2.10:1 4) 1.67:1 5) 1.29:1 6) 1.00:1 7) 0.84:1 8) 0.67:1 Reverse) 3.30:1

Final drive ratios with 3.21

1st. 15.12, 2nd. 10.10, 3rd. 6.74, 4th. 5.36, 5th. 4.14, 6th. 3.21, 7th. 2.70, 8th. 2.15, R 10.6

Final drive ratios with 3.92

1st. 18.46, 2nd. 12.31, 3rd. 8.23, 4th. 6.55, 5th. 5.06, 6th. 3.92, 7th. 3.29, 8th. 2.62, R 12.94

From the list below, we can see that gears 3-7 in 3.21 matches gears 4-8 in 3.92:

-- NO MATCH -- = 18.46 - 1st - 3.92
3.21 - 1st - 15.12 = -- NO MATCH --
-- NO MATCH -- = 12.31 - 2nd - 3.92
3.21 - 2nd - 10.1 = -- NO MATCH --
-- NO MATCH -- = 8.23 - 3rd - 3.92
3.21 - 3rd - 6.74 = 6.55 - 4th - 3.92
3.21 - 4th - 5.36 = 5.06 - 5th - 3.92
3.21 - 5th - 4.14 = 3.92 - 6th - 3.92
3.21 - 6th - 3.21 = 3.29 - 7th - 3.92
3.21 - 7th - 2.70 = 2.62 - 8th - 3.92
3.21 - 8th - 2.15 = -- NO MATCH --

2) 3.21 has "an extra" overdrive gear:

The 8th gear in 3.92 is the 7th gear in 3.21, thus effectively mean the 8th gear in the 3.21 is an extra gear to the 3.92.

Meaning, when you go test drive the 3.21 you will have to downshift to 7th to get the same acceleration at 3.92's 8th on freeways. That is why some people complain about how "sloppy" the 3.21 is, because the 3.21 has an extra overdrive gear for fuel economy. If you shift 3.21 in 7th gear, you will get the same acceleration as the 3.92 in 8th on the freeway. No, 3.21 isn't sloppy, you're just in a gear that 3.92 does not have.

3) 3.21 has 2 unique lower gears for towing:

As we know from 1), 5 gears have the same final drive ratio.
You "gain" an overdrive gear, but you "lose" one towing gear.
Here's the final drive ratio for the 2 towing gears.
1st. 15.12, 2nd. 10.10,

4) 3.92 has 3 unique lower gears for towing:

Same logic as the last
Final drive for 3 towing gears.
1st. 18.46, 2nd. 12.31, 3rd. 8.23.

5) Speed range where 3.21 is better at towing: 31-38 MPH, 48-57 MPH,
AND
6) Speed range where 3.92 is better at towing: 0-30 MPH, 39-47MPH, 58-70 MPH:

Calculated towing shift point to be 6000 rpm, if I'm off the logic is the same but the speed will vary.

For towing,
From the speed 0-30 MPH, 3.92 has higher final drive ratio over 3.21 (18.46 vs 15.12) until it has to shift to 2nd gear at 30MPH.

From the speed 31-38 MPH, 3.21 has higher final drive ratio over 3.92 (15.12 vs 12.31) until it has to shift to 2nd gear at 38MPH.

From the speed 39-47 MPH, 3.92 has higher final drive ratio over 3.21 (12.31 vs 10.10) until it has to shift to 3rd gear at 47 MPH.

From the speed 48-57 MPH, 3.21 has higher final drive ratio over 3.92 (10.10 vs 8.23) until it has to shift to 3rd gear at 57 MPH.

From the speed 58-70 MPH, 3.92 has higher final drive ratio over 3.21 (8.23 vs 6.74) until it has to shift to 4th gear at 70 MPH.

The key takeaway here is that towing heavier trailers uphill with 3.21 might never reach the desired speed within the 58-70 MPH range (typical highway towing speed) because 3.21 jumps from 10.10 to 6.74 without the 8.23 final drive ratio found in 3.92 that really help maintaining highway towing speed at max load.

Do you value the "extra" overdrive gear for fuel economy? or do you value the extra towing capability that you tell yourself you might one day need? That's up to you.

Your first mistake is using the wrong numbers since new trucks use the 8hp75, not the 8hp70. Here are the updated numbers:

Compare the shaded numbers; there are 4 shades, each shade has an approximately equal "match" in final gear between the 3.21 and 3.92; the differences are very minor and insignificant.

Your takeaway is also very odd since I have no problems towing 8000 pounds up a hill in first or second. My truck works very easily in first and second, where I notice the biggest lack of power is on on ramps and passing truckers up a hill at freeway speeds, gears between 3 and 6 and as you can see in screenshot above both trucks are going to have a pretty identical gearing there in those 2 scenarios (on ramps + passing power).

Finally, since most of us tow on the freeway around 65 mph @ 23000-ish rpms, that means the 3.21 will be sitting in 6th/direct whereas the 3.92 will be sitting in 7th/overdrive. It's easier on your transmission to be towing in direct for hours at a time, instead of overdrive; or you have to shift 3.92 down to 6th and cruise at higher rpms than needed, waisting gas. For steady freeway driving you're actually better off in the 3.21.

In short; most people overlook the 3.21 for towing based on incorrect/outdated assumptions. The 3.21 is just as good for towing if you ignore the paper certification which is completely useless because though the 3.92 WILL accelerate faster from a dead stop 0 to 30, how many people are actually doing that time and time again?

My truck spends < 1 minute total in first/second while towing in a 3 hour trip, I couldn't care less if it takes a few seconds longer WOT from a stop. It's a paper "win" only and doesn't matter in real life.

Lets be careful not to draw conclusions based on paper specs and certifications, instead of real life scenarios.

Buying a newer truck and have some questions

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