2003 5.7 hemi performance rebuild insight needed!

[DefiantRage]

I am a tow truck driver who recently picked up a 2003 ram 1500 5.7 hemi quad cab 4x4 345,000km. The previous owner released its ownership for free to the company because it lost oil pressure, so he pulled over instantly and shut the truck off. I picked it up for 200 from my boss and changed the oil pressure sensor and it runs great! I see people posting these for sale for 3-4k and thought, if I rebuild the engine, transmission and do some upgrades to the suspension, costing 3-4k doing the work myself and only worrying about parts, I would be able to have this truck last me for quite a few years if treated properly.

So here is my plan!
I want to rebuild my 2003 5.7 hemi from the ground up, starting with a full high quality rebuild kit. I also want to upgrade my heads to the eagle style head with MDs delete and upgraded valve springs. I will have to get a custom extra thick gasket to have the heads sit properly with enough valve clearance. I also want to install a new cam shaft that will increase performance, as well as efficiency in general with possible towing and 4x4 in mind. I want to replace the coil packs with newer 2009+ to match the eagle heads. I also want a matching intake manifold that will fit on my 2003 block. I want to slap a set of headers on the exhaust, since the manifold is already leaking, while possible doing a cat delete and pipe it out in front of the rear tire. I also plan on swapping out the old pcm/ecu to a newer 2005 model since it offers more custom tuning options with most tuners on the market. I want to also add a ported 90mm throttle body and cold air intake.

On top of that, I want to go through the suspension and replace and repair parts that need more than a bushing swap. I want to clean it all up and paint it nicely to help prevent rust and stuff. I want to be able to take this on some trails once and a while but still be functional as a daily driver/work truck for pulling a trailer. What kind of suspension upgrades or mods are worth investing in? I was looking at a full set of air shocks with a compressor for a decent price from a 2014 model and was curious if that could be made to work or not. I was also thinking of just getting 2.5" spacers for the front and a little 1.5" lift for the back just to add that little bit of clearance.

I am also planning on buying a monster rebuild kit for my 545rfe transmission, and installing it to the best of my ability. I want to make sure the engine and tranny are both in new condition and are the least likely to be an issue anytime soon with regular maintenance. Is there anything not included in the rebuild kit I should also order, to improve the integrity of my transmission? Any weak parts that have reinforced and newer replacements?

The end product I am looking for, is a powerful and strong built truck with a 93 octane tune running premium synthetic oil and it won't leave me on the side of the road anytime soon. I don't want to be punching it from light to light, but it's nice to know I have the power, when and where I need it.

My biggest question to the community is, does this seem feasible and worth while? Any kind of input would be greatly appreciated. Money shouldn't be too much of an issue in the next couple months, so I am just trying to explore my options and get a solid game plan down before I go buying stuff that won't work or is a total waste of time and money. If you made it this far I applaud you my friend and hope to hear from ya soon.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

 

[Bloody_Knuckles]

Sounds like a lot of money and even more work. If it makes you happy and you can afford it, go for it. But in the end, you probably can't get out of it what you have into it.

 

[DefiantRage]

I also have the option of picking up a 2009 parts truck that only has 250k and the cam and lifters are messed. But the tyranny is still good. Would it be more worth it to rebuild and install those components and selling my current block and transmission? Would they fit and be compatable with the body of the 2003 even though its a 2009?

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

 

[HemiLonestar]

So it looks you have gotten some misinformation about a few things and not enough research, see below in bold

So here is my plan!
I want to rebuild my 2003 5.7 hemi from the ground up, starting with a full high quality rebuild kit. I also want to upgrade my heads to the eagle style head with MDs delete and upgraded valve springs.
Eagle heads are a good choice, as are the springs. 1) MDS is not in the heads. At all. 2) 2003 doesn't have MDS anyway lol. Also, your stock intake won't bolt directly to the heads correctly. This leaves you with two choices, use the adapter plates or change to a newer intake; this requires shuffling the accessory drive around to move the alternator and AC compressor out of the way of the throttle body.

I will have to get a custom extra thick gasket to have the heads sit properly with enough valve clearance.
Doesn't have to be custom, there are thicknesses you can use that are off the shelf from cometic.

I also want to install a new cam shaft that will increase performance, as well as efficiency in general with possible towing and 4x4 in mind.
Biggest problem right here, in addition to the heads. You are SEVERELY limited on cam selection due to the 2003 PCM; it does not have the custom tunability of the later years. You either get a very mild custom cam or a comp 260, good for low to midrange torque and will even run on a hi-perf canned tune.

I want to replace the coil packs with newer 2009+ to match the eagle heads.
2006+. Same coil packs from 2006 onward. The valve covers are only bulged out on either side of the coils to clear the taller valves. Make sure you get valve covers with the heads, 03-08 valve covers cannot be used on eagle or apache heads. In this case you might be ahead of the game with a set of 6.1 heads. Slightly bigger valves, similar ports, larger chamber so you don't need as thick a gasket and you can bolt the 06-08 valve covers to it (they tend to be cheaper than the eagles). You'll either have to solder new connectors on or get the coil plug adapters.

I also want a matching intake manifold that will fit on my 2003 block. I want to slap a set of headers on the exhaust, since the manifold is already leaking, while possible doing a cat delete and pipe it out in front of the rear tire. I also plan on swapping out the old pcm/ecu to a newer 2005 model since it offers more custom tuning options with most tuners on the market. I want to also add a ported 90mm throttle body and cold air intake.
There isn't a matching one for that year engine. It was unique for those years and in 09 they returned to a front TB (albeit on a 90° elbow). This leaves you with a car eagle (front TB), truck eagle (with the neck but also an active intake), truck 6.4 intake (also active runner and similar to the eagle truck intake) or 6.1. The 6.1 doesn't require spacers since it's taller, but the others will require the intake spacers to clear the coolant temp sensor up front. Good idea on the PCM conversion. You'll need the custom tune to have the aft O2 sensors and EGR (03 doesn't have it but the 05 program will) written out. This opens up your cam selection to work better with your heads. There are no D port head headers for the 3rd gen; just have to deal with it lol.

On top of that, I want to go through the suspension and replace and repair parts that need more than a bushing swap. I want to clean it all up and paint it nicely to help prevent rust and stuff. I want to be able to take this on some trails once and a while but still be functional as a daily driver/work truck for pulling a trailer. What kind of suspension upgrades or mods are worth investing in? I was looking at a full set of air shocks with a compressor for a decent price from a 2014 model and was curious if that could be made to work or not. I was also thinking of just getting 2.5" spacers for the front and a little 1.5" lift for the back just to add that little bit of clearance.

4th gen suspension stuff isn't compatible, especially from earlier 3rd gen 4x4. You have torsion bars up front (all 4th gens use struts up front) as well as leaf springs out back (4th gens have 4 link with coils).

I am also planning on buying a monster rebuild kit for my 545rfe transmission, and installing it to the best of my ability. I want to make sure the engine and tranny are both in new condition and are the least likely to be an issue anytime soon with regular maintenance. Is there anything not included in the rebuild kit I should also order, to improve the integrity of my transmission? Any weak parts that have reinforced and newer replacements?

Depending on how much power you plan to make, just prepare yourself for the fact that unless you keep it around the 400hp mark with torque management intact, you're GOING to replace it eventually. It's gonna happen lol. Best you can do is get a deep pan, the OEM 1 ton trans cooler and get whoever custom tunes the engine to do the trans too. Other option is a trans swap. Manual, 518/46RH swap are the most popular ones. I've actually been eyeballing a new possibility that's popped up recently; retrofit a ZF 8HP70. Expensive proposition but doable.

The end product I am looking for, is a powerful and strong built truck with a 93 octane tune running premium synthetic oil and it won't leave me on the side of the road anytime soon. I don't want to be punching it from light to light, but it's nice to know I have the power, when and where I need it.

Doable even with a stock truck.

My biggest question to the community is, does this seem feasible and worth while? Any kind of input would be greatly appreciated. Money shouldn't be too much of an issue in the next couple months, so I am just trying to explore my options and get a solid game plan down before I go buying stuff that won't work or is a total waste of time and money. If you made it this far I applaud you my friend and hope to hear from ya soon.

VERY feasible and worthwhile, also fairly easy to do. Even better if you can do the lion's share of the work yourself. Granted you're talking to a hot rodder and constant modder (when time and $$ are available)....I might not be the best person to listen to lol.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

Good luck and ask questions!

 

[HemiLonestar]

I also have the option of picking up a 2009 parts truck that only has 250k and the cam and lifters are messed. But the tyranny is still good. Would it be more worth it to rebuild and install those components and selling my current block and transmission? Would they fit and be compatable with the body of the 2003 even though its a 2009?

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

Can't. Crank is VERY different (both crank and cam are not backwards or even physically compatible because of it), everything was made longer on the front of the VVT engines to make room for the VVT itself. Trans might be worth having and grab the heads and intake. Nothing else except maybe interior items will be worth it or work (see my build thread).

 

[Redtruck-VA]

My recommendation is firmly set your goals and limit your mods to support those specific goals. A lot of money can easily be spent chasing cool parts that do little to add value to the truck. It being a big truck don't attempt to make it a racer. Adding a few parts can make it a awesome, dependable go anywhere truck...

 

[DefiantRage]

I don't plan on swapping cranks or cams between models lol but as a tow truck driver, buying and scrapping cars all day, I come across enough of these trucks (not many, but 2 or 3 everyother Month), I could easily pull some of these parts like the heads, coil packs and intake and other odds and ends.

And thank you Hemi Lonestar for your time and effort! I'm guessing you have been down a similar road? Keep me posted on that transmission you have your eyes on, that sounds interesting and I want to take a look into it myself when I have a minute.
The 6.1 heads were the other thing I forgot to mention in that section, but i do plan on keeping my eyes out for a set of them as well. They have stronger springs anyways i hear, making it easier to work with when you put a new cam in right?
The pcm is going to be one of the first things that I must have sorted out before I tear my truck apart, so I can actually utilize and tune according to all my mods. Speaking of which, what are some of the better tuners to use on these older rams? And what years of pcm should I aim for, that would be compatable with said tuners? I definitely want a dash mount that can log and monitor for remote tuning options. I hear a lot about bully dog and diablo. Any other brands worth noting?
What kind of input do you have for my suspension options that are worth exploring? Is it possible to update my system to a newer style with struts, or would it even be worth the hassle, when I already have something that works? Are struts better or does the torsion bar have advantages?

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

 

[Redtruck-VA]

It can be a steep learning curve familiarizing yourself with the 03-08 ram. None of them came with a 6.1. A couple pf things you need to become familiar with. One reluctor wheel count. Your truck is 34 tooth. This is the determining factor whither your engine is compatible with your pcm. Using a 05 pcm is the way to go IMO or a stand alone which ever suits your application. Swapping on 6.1 heads and manifold normally requires the front accessory cover for proper fitment.. keeping in mind if you change one thing you will need to change a handful of other parts to make it work. As for tuning I can say over the years I've tried pretty much all of them either singularly or stacked and am currently using HP Tuning @ 17lbs on the street. You don't change heads because of it's springs. Springs are wear items replaced hopefully on a maintenace schedule rather than when broken. And of course the transmission is the trucks weak link and will need to be addressed when putting any horsepower down. It's a grand adventure... enjoy..

 

[HemiLonestar]

I don't plan on swapping cranks or cams between models lol but as a tow truck driver, buying and scrapping cars all day, I come across enough of these trucks (not many, but 2 or 3 everyother Month), I could easily pull some of these parts like the heads, coil packs and intake and other odds and ends.

And thank you Hemi Lonestar for your time and effort! I'm guessing you have been down a similar road? Keep me posted on that transmission you have your eyes on, that sounds interesting and I want to take a look into it myself when I have a minute.
The 6.1 heads were the other thing I forgot to mention in that section, but i do plan on keeping my eyes out for a set of them as well. They have stronger springs anyways i hear, making it easier to work with when you put a new cam in right?
The pcm is going to be one of the first things that I must have sorted out before I tear my truck apart, so I can actually utilize and tune according to all my mods. Speaking of which, what are some of the better tuners to use on these older rams? And what years of pcm should I aim for, that would be compatable with said tuners? I definitely want a dash mount that can log and monitor for remote tuning options. I hear a lot about bully dog and diablo. Any other brands worth noting?
What kind of input do you have for my suspension options that are worth exploring? Is it possible to update my system to a newer style with struts, or would it even be worth the hassle, when I already have something that works? Are struts better or does the torsion bar have advantages?

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

It's good you weren't planning on crank or cam swapping, because you can't anyway lol. They aren't physically interchangeable. You can see the glaring difference bewteen pre-VVT and VVT cams:



While the 6.1 head was designed as a performance head, the advantage the eagle head has is being cheaper since there's so many more of them. Eagle 5.7's have been in production for 11 model years now and counting, 6.1 was only in production for 6 model years. Since you see that stuff all the time, it's worth it to grab to use and/or sell.

The ZF swap is not a cheap proposition and so far as I know it's only been done to very old retrofitted vehicles and newer CAN bus vehicles. I was told it could work in a PCI bus (02-05 computer style, 06+ Ram is some form of CAN bus) but haven't seen it done yet. The necessary retrofit harness is an even $1000. Then you have the cost of the trans itself, an electronic shifter and custom driveshaft for a 2wd (ZF doesn't have a slip yoke provision, so it needs some kind of slip shaft, be it one piece or two). Might actually be easier for a 4wd since all you have to worry about is bolting a transfer case to it.

As Greg said, don't look for set of heads based on springs. If you find a set of 6.1's in good shape, it makes it easier because of chamber volume. You're more likely to find eagle heads and the springs are an easy upgrade. Also as he said, 2005 PCM, whether you do it your self or have someone else do it. This gives MUCH better engine tuneability plus the ability to tune to the trans (depending on what software you're using). For what you plan to do you will need custom tuning, stick to CMR (Diablo) or HP tuners. Superchips and BD don't do custom.

Unless you plan to do custom front end fab/torchwork, you'll wanna stick with the t-bars.

 

[DefiantRage]

Sorry it took so long to reply guys, it's been a crazy week here in Calgary after the recent snow fall. I haven't even had time to think lol

I have a few more ideas to bounce around with you, especially since i am new to these engines, while you are seasoned veterans (which is my goal by the end of this project!) hahaha

I have seen a video regarding crank and cam swaps between the 5.7 and the 6.1 (not completely sure of the years though), where they basically built a stroker in the 5.7 with 6.1 parts installed, which I am guessing the 5.7 block would have been 05' or older, to accommodate for the vct. The way it was explained in the video, was the eagle heads have the highest flow rate, 6.1's second highest, still a performance increase over my stock 03 heads with the least flow. With the eagles, 6.1 crank and cam, with new forged pistons and a slight bore, it basically created a stroker, since the upgraded valves and springs could handle the the crank of the 6.1. I will have to find that video again and post it as a reference for you to possibly inspect and validate certain aspects of the build and if it is worth while.

In general, would buying a stroker kit be worth while? I want to increase my torque in a healthy relation to my hp, since i want this to be a work truck 80% of the time, hauling a trailer with a multi purpose vehicle on the back for sweeping parkades out, with attatchments (roughly 5000kg if not more). Would a stroker kit decrease my overall durability of the engine? Because realistically I want to build something super durable and still powerful.

The eagles valve train is built with the MDS and would need a mds delete, to function properly with my block? Or did I get things mixed up somewhere haha

I am so sorry for all the questions and really appreciate all of your well thought out responses, time and help. I know how long it took me to write out my first post, and can only imagine what it took to pick my post apart and address most, if not all my questions thus far! You are all the real MVP.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

 

[HemiLonestar]

1. 5.7 & 6.1 share the same stroke. Difference between the two cranks is 6.1 is forged, 5.7 is cast. Using an OEM 6.1 crank is part of the poor man's forged short block. The larger dispalcement of the 6.1 comes from bore size, nt stroke. This is why the same stroker crank that turns a 5.7 into a 6.4/392 turns a 6.1 into a 420ish. A 5.7 with a slight overbore and a 6.1 crank is just a 5.8/5.9 with a stronger crank lol.
2. VCT is Variable Cam Timing, or VVT (Variable Valve Timing, which wasn't til 2009) as Mopar calls it. Since you are referencing pre-05, I assume you actually mean MDS (Multi Displacement System)? This shuts off half the engine for fuel economy; not available in trucks til 2006. Same block 2003-2008. 2009 is a whole different animal.
3. When you were at the mild cam portion you were ok with your stock PCM. While a stroker is awesome, you would then have to do the 05 PCM conversion to tune it properly. With a stroker kit is usually forged components.
4. I'll say this again. MDS is NOT in the heads. At all. In any 3G-4G hemi. Ever. Strictly solenoids and lifters and specific cams. I don't know where you got that idea, but stop reading anything from there lol. Yes, you've got that mixed up lol.

As for head flow rates (strictly out of the box, no modification), in order it's Apache/Hellcat (same head & architecture, just different aluminum), then depending on who you talk to Eagle or 6.1, with original 3G 5.7 bringing up the rear. The Apache/392 heads don't really count in this scenario unless you're gonna use a 6.1 block because the valves are too big; can't fit them on any 5.7 block unless hog the bores out uncomfortably big or notch them (neither really desirable). Eagles tend to be more plentiful and cheaper, but you'll have to account for smaller chamber and taller valves. 6.1's are less plentiful and usually more expensive, but easier to bolt on to a pre-eagle 5.7 (one of the first things people figured out way back in 05). Unmodified with the same cam and set up to similar compression ratio you should get similar performance, though you may get a bit more with the extra quench from the squished chambers the Eagles have. Eagle heads can support up to 600hp naturally aspirated.

Of course, shooting for a stroker will compound the transmission problem.

 

[Redtruck-VA]

Obviously a lot of money can be spent on both engine and heads. I look at building the engine to hold the horsepower and the heads to make the horsepower. As for camshafts I use high lift with modurate duration. For your big truck I highly recommend OCP intake manifold. As for heads whatever you choose they will have to be worked to really flow. Bigger the budget, higher the flow.. I hope you are getting the idea.
Here is a picture of a 03-05 head that performs great on the street and pulls to 7000.

 

[Mickey Rat]

Obviously your a teenager, first job, and not married. Bank the money and get something newer that has better resale value then empty your pockets into it.

 

[Redtruck-VA]

The only people making money in the hot rodding world are the ones selling parts and services. Do not spend money on mods that you cannot afford to throw away. Modifying your truck is not an investment but an addiction and most often devalues a truck rather than increases it's value. What you do to your vehicle often has little to no appeal to the others. So if you are listening to advice from your elders, save your money, buy gold, leave those mufflers alone. Example: I haven't done the math recently but I believe my break even number for redtruck is around $40k. Anyone interested in my vision of a badass 03 Ram pro-street truck give me a holler.... lol Now back to work on my new vision of a 1956 *****'s pickup powered by a g3 426 hemi.... never enough time...

 

[HemiLonestar]

Obviously your a teenager, first job, and not married. Bank the money and get something newer that has better resale value then empty your pockets into it.

1. Obviously you assume entirely too many things in your life (see pic below).
2. *you're. You were born in 1958; I know for a fact grammar/English classes were still a thing by the time your old ass was in school.....
3. When you start paying his bills, you can tell him what to do with his money. Otherwise stay in your lane. Not everyone thinks of a vehicle is just a means of basic transportation.

 

[HemiLonestar]

The only people making money in the hot rodding world are the ones selling parts and services. Do not spend money on mods that you cannot afford to throw away. Modifying your truck is not an investment but an addiction and most often devalues a truck rather than increases it's value. What you do to your vehicle often has little to no appeal to the others. So if you are listening to advice from your elders, save your money, buy gold, leave those mufflers alone. Example: I haven't done the math recently but I believe my break even number for redtruck is around $40k. Anyone interested in my vision of a badass 03 Ram pro-street truck give me a holler.... lol Now back to work on my new vision of a 1956 *****'s pickup powered by a g3 426 hemi.... never enough time...

I made the mistake of participating in a thread regarding how much money had been sunk into your truck...actually doing the math (not including basic maintenance) just ****** you off lol

 

[Redtruck-VA]

Yes, I don't get into it most of the time. I'm fortunate in that I do all the work myself. Now f I had to add my labor into the mix it gets crazy.... lol
But its a hobby and not a business...

 

[HemiLonestar]

@DefiantRage any progress?

 

[DefiantRage]

Sorry about the wait @HemiLonestar, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had an interesting couple months haha

Update time! So I'm still sourcing parts and could use a little insight... I found a running 2009 5.7l from a Chrysler aspen with 120km and buddy wants $1000 for the entire engine, plus any other odds and ends in the engine bay. I pulled a computer from a 2005 5.7 ram while I was still towing, so I can think about tuning once I start upgrading and take advantage of my mods.

Now my first question is, how hard would it be to just swap the engine directly into my truck? Doesn't it have something to do with the engine being offset in the 2003 instead of centered like the newer models?

Second question, if I'm building the 03 block with 09 parts, what parts will I need to accommodate for them? I'll need a intake manifold adapter plate and I will need a car style timing cover to clear the intake and relocate the a/c & alternator right? I read a post where 1 of the a/c lines can be reused and bent into place but the other needs to be remade. I used to be an a/c tech apprentice so I can probably do that myself.

I will be using basically the entire top end from the 09, and rebuilding the block, but I don't know what kind of pistons and cam and stuff would compliment these new parts. I am also considering a slight bore in the cylinders so I can make sure they're all symmetrical and fresh surfaces. I am also leaning towards a cat and O2 delete so I can straight pipe out to the rear tires, so once again, I want a cam to compliment the pipes so it sounds decent and not stupid haha

I also want to port the manifold and heads, but I guess it's not necessary, since it will all be matching 2009 parts, and all the ports are the same sizes and shape right? Should I also take the exhaust manifolds from the aspen? Will they even fit since my engine is off center? or should i spend a couple bucks on a set of headers that will once again complement the cam and straight pipe exhaust?

I wouldn't mind building this engine with boost as a potential option in the future without having to rebuild again. So that means I should go with forged rods and piston? Forged crank too?

I'll be replacing all the springs in the in the valves and replacing all the lifters as well. I heard the srt lifters have bigger and better bearings and fit, is this true and should I go out of my way to get them?

Basically, for anyone who has the time and you were my shoes, what would you do from start to finish? What would be the best way to use this 2009 aspen in my 03 ram?

And since I'll have an extra 5.7 block laying around, I could rebuild that and drop it in my 05 4.7 Durango couldn't I? Or should I just use the Durango as a backup transmission and rebuild that tranny for when I eventually blow up the one in my truck? Haha I could fix up the Durango, but it's pretty rusted out and needs a lot of body work compared to my ram.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[DefiantRage]

Should I also take the computer from the 09 aspen? Or will it not work the same since it's a Chrysler SUV instead of a dodge truck? Either way I plan on picking up a tuner for it and will get a custom tune done for deletes and cam to take advantage of the upgrades.

Speaking of deletes, I will have to get a egr delete and an MDS delete as well right? Or is it vvt delete? It's so confusing lol but that requires plugs for the holes the solenoids go in right? Then I just leave the plugs dangling.

Now that I am talking about wiring, will I be able to use my 03 harness on the 09 parts? Can I get away with, snipping those parts off at the scrapyard and soldering them in to my harness? Or is the 03 harness missing leads that I would need? Since I'm deleting a ton of stuff out anyways, it shouldn't matter because my block doesn't have any of those newer system.

Sorry again for all the questions! I just want to do this one time and do it right the first time!

I'm going to write up a parts list for absolutely everything I need and place a big order for everything else I need after I pick up this block.

I should also mention that found another 5.7 from a 2013 ram, complete but torn apart for 700. Similar kms but newer. The difference is the aspen 09 5.7 is still installed in the vehicle and I can start it to make sure it runs and sounds good. 2013 came out of a ram when the timing chain broke. He got the engine swapped under warranty and was going to use it in another project, but never got around to it. Since it's torn apart I could inspect it for damages, and if I did go that route, what would I specifically be looking for? What sounds like the better deal? 2013 for $300 less than the 2009?

The 2009 aspen is being sold by a mechanic who bought it off a customer. He replaced the engine himself a few years ago and did all the maintenance up to this point, but after an accident the owner didn't want to fix it and sold it to them. He is also throwing in the aspen rads and fans, harnesses and all accessories, basically everything under the hood he can get rid of lol. Which reminds me that I also want to do the e-fan conversion in my truck and take some drain off my crank. I'll have to find out if I can use the fan or rad from the aspen if I choose that path.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk