2018 Power Wagon with 5th Wheel?

[jasonaden]

Hey all! I've got a 2018 PW (6.4 HEMI) with a Firestone air kit (the 7500 lb kit). I'm looking at a 5th wheel with a hitch weight of 2350lbs and 11,900 dry weight. I've never towed a 5th wheel before, though I have experience towing larger loads, but always with an oversized truck where the rating far exceeds the load I'm pulling. Oh, I also have the RAM boxes, so the plan is to install a sliding 5th wheel receiver so I can still do the tight turns/maneuvers.

I'm basically wondering if I'm going to have major problems with the above setup? Or will this work out alright? I would definitely look at getting a 3500, but with pricing right now I don't know that I can do it. Plus my son loves the PW for the offroading side, so would like to be able to keep it!

Thanks!

Update after comments: I'm pretty well convinced it would be a mistake to assume I'll comfortably be able to take the 5th wheel out on a regular basis and for distance. I'm looking at a bigger rig or just switching to the 2500 Cummins. Thanks!

 

[dhay13]

I don't have a PW but can say for certain that you will likely be way overloaded with a PW. Check your GRAWR (or GAWR (rear) on your drivers door sticker. You do not want to exceed that for sure. Payload should also be followed so likely you will be over that too. In addition 12,000lbs is heavy for the 6.4 in my opinion. I know people on here have down it but that's alot. What is max towing on your truck?
There are 2 questions to consider here...can it tow it and should you tow it? If you are over your limits keep in mind liability issues if something goes wrong. Not trying to be a debby-downer but want to make sure you know the risks

 

[SeppW]

I would advise against it.

 

[Airmousam]

Agree with above, you're in 3500 land

 

[olyelr]

1ton cummins imo.

your power wagon will indeed drag it down the road, but it will get it done fairly poorly while the diesel will do it at ease. All depends how much more you care about wheelin’ with it rather than towing with it.

 

[Grand Mesa]

An automated safety hitch is a thought for the lifted Power Wagon.

Safety Towing Systems, Inc.

Now Manufacturing the Automated Safety Hitch System.

www.safetytowingsystems.com

 

[2003F350]

I am debating switching from our 35-ish foot travel trailer to a fifth wheel with my '17 PW.

I wouldn't consider any fifth wheel that isn't shown as 'half ton towable,' because this will keep the overall weight of the camper, as well as the pin weight, down below what you'd see on a normal fifth wheel.

The RAWR is there for a 'half-ton towable' unit, but the payload isn't. Air bags will get me there, and add some stability in the rear to help combat the soft springs.

All that said - I'm still not sure I want to pull the trigger on this idea, mostly because I don't know how the truck is going to react to it. Do I think it can handle it? Yes. Do I know it can handle it? No I do not.

In short, I'm looking at the same situation you are finding yourself in, but I'd stay far away from anything with a GVWR of 12k. I would keep it down around 10k if at all possible.

 

[Tinman454]

as others have said it can do it but do your really always want to be that nervous driving down the road ? If your just doing it 2 times a year and doing short distances I would say ok you could get away with it but if you plan on doing lots of miles and long trips I would say get the truck you need to do it safely and drive with a bit of confidence on the road. Also being a motorhome owner my self I think just about every one I know has way more weight in there rigs that what’s the load limit just keeping it real good luck on which ever way you go.

 

[Bob Macknight]

1ton cummins imo.

your power wagon will indeed drag it down the road, but it will get it done fairly poorly while the diesel will do it at ease. All depends how much more you care about wheelin’ with it rather than towing with it.

its not so much as if the power wagon can pull it,its will it be able to stop it in any situation

 

[62Blazer]

I always get a kick out the comments about not being able to stop it. The trailer has brakes on it that compensate for the overall added weight. When pulling my 18' flatbed trailer that is around 9,500 lbs. back in the day (before the inertia based brake controllers that deliver variable force) I had to turn the trailer brakes down in town so it wouldn't snap your neck when stopping. Besides, why would a Power Wagon be any different in stopping versus a non-PW 2500 that is rated to tow upwards of 16k lbs.

Anyway, back to the original question. I will start with saying the PW is rated from the factory with a significantly lower towing capacity than a non-PW 2500. That is mainly because of the softer springs and D-rated tires......everything else is exactly the same. You can modify the PW to take care of those issues (air bags, springs, tires, etc...) but "legally" you cannot raise the factory towing capacity. A non-PW 2500 can have a factory tow rating up in the 16k range so with the right modifications not sure why a PW couldn't have the same capabilities. Again, to keep the "payload police" happy and those who will say it will blow up and kill a bus full of nuns legally the rating will not increase. Though I would like to know how many times a non-commercial private citizen cruising down the freeway gets pulled over in their pickup truck pulling a camper by the highway patrol and they check the weights........

From my experience any type of trailer that is either a gooseneck or 5th wheel pulls better than a bumper hitch version of equivalent weight and overall size. That is because the weight is distributed on top of the axle of the truck and not leveraging off the back.

For my final comment I will say that if you plan on pulling that size camper on a regular basis and for longer distances I would consider a different truck (i.e. non-PW diesel).

 

[Dean2]

What 62blazer said. He laid it out VERY well.
Short form, far too much trailer for that truck, that is one ton trailer size. Get much lighter, smaller trailer or change trucks. I would add, short boxes can pull 5th wheels but a long box does it way better and you don't risk hitting the cab with the trailer when turning tight.

 

[olyelr]

its not so much as if the power wagon can pull it,its will it be able to stop it in any situation

The brakes are the same on a 1 ton diesel as they are on a power wagon. What does stopping it have to do with the scenario?

 

[Airmousam]

I've seen the nuns comment before on this exact same topic...always cracks me up

 

[dhay13]

The problem isn't the brakes, it's the soft suspension. The PW can't handle much more trailer than a 1500. It has more power and better brakes but it's a purpose built vehicle made for off-roading

 

[2003F350]

I always get a kick out the comments about not being able to stop it. The trailer has brakes on it that compensate for the overall added weight. When pulling my 18' flatbed trailer that is around 9,500 lbs. back in the day (before the inertia based brake controllers that deliver variable force) I had to turn the trailer brakes down in town so it wouldn't snap your neck when stopping. Besides, why would a Power Wagon be any different in stopping versus a non-PW 2500 that is rated to tow upwards of 16k lbs.

Anyway, back to the original question. I will start with saying the PW is rated from the factory with a significantly lower towing capacity than a non-PW 2500. That is mainly because of the softer springs and D-rated tires......everything else is exactly the same. You can modify the PW to take care of those issues (air bags, springs, tires, etc...) but "legally" you cannot raise the factory towing capacity. A non-PW 2500 can have a factory tow rating up in the 16k range so with the right modifications not sure why a PW couldn't have the same capabilities. Again, to keep the "payload police" happy and those who will say it will blow up and kill a bus full of nuns legally the rating will not increase. Though I would like to know how many times a non-commercial private citizen cruising down the freeway gets pulled over in their pickup truck pulling a camper by the highway patrol and they check the weights........

From my experience any type of trailer that is either a gooseneck or 5th wheel pulls better than a bumper hitch version of equivalent weight and overall size. That is because the weight is distributed on top of the axle of the truck and not leveraging off the back.

For my final comment I will say that if you plan on pulling that size camper on a regular basis and for longer distances I would consider a different truck (i.e. non-PW diesel).

And that 'legally' is the biggest part of the problem. And having driven a 'normal' 2500 vs my power wagon...they don't stop the same, at least not by feel. Those softer springs give a LOT more body roll and make things feel a bit mushier, even if it actually isn't.

And you're right, the VAST majority of RVs will never get pulled over to have weights checked - that is evidenced by how many I see headed north every weekend and you can tell by SIGHT that they're either overweight, not set up properly, or both.

But just because the cops won't stop you or will give you a pass, what happens in the event you're in an accident (the biggest hangup I've got with doing this myself) and injure/kill someone? If it is bad enough to warrant an investigation, and your insurance company discovers you were legally over the limits of the truck, there is a STRONG chance that they will deny any and all claims related to that accident - they look for any way out of paying as it is, if you hand them one on a silver platter they're going to JUMP on it. Which means the other driver (even if they were at fault) can now sue you directly for any and all damages. Do you have the cash on hand, or able to be liquidated, to cover potentially millions in costs just to pull a bigger RV than you should?

If not...I don't think I'd risk it.

 

[Grand Mesa]

According to TFL the Power Wagon's payload rating is under that required to tow even an 8,500 pound dry weight 5th wheel trailer with a 1,470 hitch weight. It's the hitch weight that will make it exceed its capacity.

Can a Ram Power Wagon Tow a Fifth Wheel Trailer? (Ask TFLTruck)

We recently received the following question from Kevin N. about the possibility of towing a 5th wheel trailer with a Ram Power Wagon that is equipped with a 6.4

tfltruck.com

That's why I mentioned the automated safety hitch earlier. It takes the 5th wheel tongue's weight factor out of the Power Wagon's payload rating. Puts the weight on a mini-trailer under the tongue. It doesn't look cheap. I've never seen one in use, even though we've got a lot of Texans towing 5th wheel trailers out here in our Colorado Rocky Mountains.

Diesels out perform my 6.4L for towing at high altitude (above 10,000 feet). They tow much larger trailers than mine with much more power to do so. Since they fly pass my 15 foot travel trailer and Power Wagon on the I-70 Vail Pass at way over 75 MPH while I've got my 6.4L at WOT revved at 4,000 RPM's doing 65. It's noticeably not as powerful in towing, but I didn't purchase it for towing long heavy trailers.

 

[62Blazer]

And that 'legally' is the biggest part of the problem. And having driven a 'normal' 2500 vs my power wagon...they don't stop the same, at least not by feel. Those softer springs give a LOT more body roll and make things feel a bit mushier, even if it actually isn't.

And you're right, the VAST majority of RVs will never get pulled over to have weights checked - that is evidenced by how many I see headed north every weekend and you can tell by SIGHT that they're either overweight, not set up properly, or both.

But just because the cops won't stop you or will give you a pass, what happens in the event you're in an accident (the biggest hangup I've got with doing this myself) and injure/kill someone? If it is bad enough to warrant an investigation, and your insurance company discovers you were legally over the limits of the truck, there is a STRONG chance that they will deny any and all claims related to that accident - they look for any way out of paying as it is, if you hand them one on a silver platter they're going to JUMP on it. Which means the other driver (even if they were at fault) can now sue you directly for any and all damages. Do you have the cash on hand, or able to be liquidated, to cover potentially millions in costs just to pull a bigger RV than you should?

If not...I don't think I'd risk it.

While I don't really disagree with these comments the whole story about insurance denying the claim has a lot of speculation in it. I've seen these types of comments probably hundreds of times over years but have never heard anybody chime in stating they personally know this has happened. I think there needs to be some much more blatant issues going on besides pulling a trailer a little over the rating of that particular truck, especially if the trailer weight is still within the ratings of another model (i.e. PW vs. regular 2500). Also keep in mind that if you cause the accident the "victims" are going to want compensation (medical, repair of their vehicle, etc...) and are relying on your insurance company to provide that money in a short period time. If your insurance company refuses to pay the "victims", and the victims insurance company, are going after your insurance company. In this situation your insurance company can't simply walk away as they are going to have to legally justify not paying. The fine print typically does allow an insurance company to not pay if the client was involved in an illegal activity at a certain level, but this also means that law enforcement would have to issue a certain level of illegal activity and probably involve taking you to court. If you cause a regular traffic accident insurance doesn't walk away if you are speeding (within a reasonable level at least) or get charged with failure to control.

 

[craiggemt]

You'd be well over payload and tow capacity with the PW.

 

[JC4041]

Wasn't the 18 PW only rated for like shy of 10k lbs??

 

[ALRedneck]

I was in the same boat as I loved the PW but ended up needing significantly more towing. I had to decide on towing or off road. Towing won as it was a necessity for me on the farm. But, FYI, you can get a 4x4 Ram 3500 Dually Tradesman for $60,000 which is PW territory on price. 5,000 lbs payload and 22,000 towing. 8 ft bed allows for a tool box and still plenty of room for 5th wheel/goose neck/bed space for payload. I don’t have to drive it in a city so the long wheel base wasn’t an issue because you need 3 acres to turn!