5th Wheel Towing 2018 Ram 2500 Diesel

[MikeF69]

Hi Folks, I see a lot of people driving 2500 trucks of various manufacture that look like they exceed the rated towing capacity. You see 2500's coming down the road with 42 ft 5th wheels and it makes you wonder. The truck I have 2500 diesel with crew cab, 4x4, and short box and is SAE J2807 rated with a payload of 2270 pounds, a GCVR of 24,300 pounds and a maximum trailer weight of 16,100 pounds.

So with my wife, dog, luggage, fuel in the truck at probably 650 pounds, it would look like a 5th wheel pin weight has to be 1600 pounds which is a lot less than any 5th wheel we have looked at. The GCVW at 24,300 gives you 14,300 pounds (I think) of 5th wheel to be able to pull, so correct me if I am wrong but a fully loaded 5th wheel at 14,000 pounds, the wife, dog, luggage in the truck and I should be fine??? So the problem seems to be the pin weight, a 14,000 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight in the 2000 pound area plus or minus a few hundred.

Do air bags increase the payload capacity such that we could use a 2000 pound pin weight? Do you just ignore the specs and do what everyone else does, pull something bigger than your rated for? Who here pulls over their rated capacity and is it a problem? Or do we just forget the 5th wheel and get a trailer!

 

[KKBB]

There are a bunch of threads that discuss this...either follow the sticker, or don't. Some do, some don't, and it will turn into a big ******* match here on what way to do it.

 

[nlambert182]

Hi Folks, I see a lot of people driving 2500 trucks of various manufacture that look like they exceed the rated towing capacity. You see 2500's coming down the road with 42 ft 5th wheels and it makes you wonder. The truck I have 2500 diesel with crew cab, 4x4, and short box and is SAE J2807 rated with a payload of 2270 pounds, a GCVR of 24,300 pounds and a maximum trailer weight of 16,100 pounds.

So with my wife, dog, luggage, fuel in the truck at probably 650 pounds, it would look like a 5th wheel pin weight has to be 1600 pounds which is a lot less than any 5th wheel we have looked at. The GCVW at 24,300 gives you 14,300 pounds (I think) of 5th wheel to be able to pull, so correct me if I am wrong but a fully loaded 5th wheel at 14,000 pounds, the wife, dog, luggage in the truck and I should be fine??? So the problem seems to be the pin weight, a 14,000 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight in the 2000 pound area plus or minus a few hundred.

Do air bags increase the payload capacity such that we could use a 2000 pound pin weight? Do you just ignore the specs and do what everyone else does, pull something bigger than your rated for? Who here pulls over their rated capacity and is it a problem? Or do we just forget the 5th wheel and get a trailer!

I'm going to speak strictly from math and the logic that I use. No opinions. Take whatever I say however you choose. In the end it is your decision.

A 2500 with a 6.7 Cummins is "capable" of moving the load. Same engine, same transmission in a lot of instances and because of that a lot of people think that because it can, it should.

You need to understand your true payload first. That doesn't come from online. It comes from your door sticker. Then anything added after that sticker was applied (running boards, brush guard, bed cover, etc...) has to be weighed and deducted from the number on that sticker. THAT number is your true base payload.

Fuel weight is already calculated into the payload rating on the door sticker. You need to calculate passenger weight, any add-ons (running boards, bed covers, cargo, fifth wheel hitch, etc..), and then determine your available payload capacity.

After that, find the trailer you like and look at the GVWR. Don't use dry camper weight or pin weights. Dry weight is never right because dealers can add accessories to the camper after it was built. Propane tanks, batteries, a bigger fridge, different couches, a different mattress, etc... all change the weight.

The industry standard for calculating pin weight is to use 18-25% of the GVWR as your starting point. On a 14,000 lb GVWR fifth wheel, the true pin weight will be in the 2,500-3,000 lb range depending on which number you use. I use 20% as my base since it's in the middle. 20% of 14k = 2,800 lbs. If my available payload isn't at least 3k (I leave a little cushion for variables) I don't tow it.

Some will say that not everyone loads to GVWR. That's true. But from decades of RV experience it doesn't take long to realize that you've maxed your GVWR as things accumulate so I err on the side of caution. It's never let me down. I've never seen a thread saying someone bought too much truck but there are many complaining about being over loaded. I've also never seen an accident because someone had too much truck. The opposite isn't true.

Air bags do not increase payload capacity at all thought people do use it that way. Airbags take no weight off of the rear axle, the chassis, etc.. They just level the rig out. They should never be used in an effort to increase payload.

You'll often run out of payload long before you reach the max trailer weight rating of the truck. Those two numbers are mutually exclusive and are meant more for flatbed trailers where you can shift the load back to reduce pin weight on the trailer. You can't do that with an RV since the majority of the weight is fixed on the frame.

 

[CanRebel]

Hi Folks, I see a lot of people driving 2500 trucks of various manufacture that look like they exceed the rated towing capacity. You see 2500's coming down the road with 42 ft 5th wheels and it makes you wonder. The truck I have 2500 diesel with crew cab, 4x4, and short box and is SAE J2807 rated with a payload of 2270 pounds, a GCVR of 24,300 pounds and a maximum trailer weight of 16,100 pounds.

So with my wife, dog, luggage, fuel in the truck at probably 650 pounds, it would look like a 5th wheel pin weight has to be 1600 pounds which is a lot less than any 5th wheel we have looked at. The GCVW at 24,300 gives you 14,300 pounds (I think) of 5th wheel to be able to pull, so correct me if I am wrong but a fully loaded 5th wheel at 14,000 pounds, the wife, dog, luggage in the truck and I should be fine??? So the problem seems to be the pin weight, a 14,000 pound 5th wheel has a pin weight in the 2000 pound area plus or minus a few hundred.

Do air bags increase the payload capacity such that we could use a 2000 pound pin weight? Do you just ignore the specs and do what everyone else does, pull something bigger than your rated for? Who here pulls over their rated capacity and is it a problem? Or do we just forget the 5th wheel and get a trailer!

As it was already mentioned. Air bags will never increase payload. They just help with leveling.

If you know or don't. Your payload is relatively low because of the diesel. Kind of stupid in my view, as diesel engine is better for towing.

Frames between 2500 and 3500 (depending on models) is basically the same. suspension being a difference. Big difference between going over payload on 1500 vs 2500.

If you do decide you are going to go over your payload. Make sure you have proper tires, brakes, etc. Wouldn't go over by much though. e.g. payload of gas engine.

If you are unsure, trade 2500 in for 3500.

You "could be" responsible if you were to get into an accident. Many US states have different laws.

 

[MikeF69]

Well I guess I need a 3500, I am not sure the 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels will hold together! How do you make something lighter and have it to be just as durable?

 

[CanRebel]

Well I guess I need a 3500, I am not sure the 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels will hold together! How do you make something lighter and have it to be just as durable?

Progress?? Better engineering, better design, different materials.

 

[nlambert182]

I wouldn't call it progress... I'd call it cheapening out to try and poke their foot into another advertising market. 1/2 ton towable fifth wheels really aren't always 1/2 ton towable.

I sat my wife down this weekend and laid the math out for her because she's been adamant that we go back to a fifth wheel even though I've explained that I specifically purchased this 2500 for a travel trailer. She found a short fifth wheel that she liked that has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. Truck should be plenty big enough to tow it.... she says. Ok fine. Let's work it out.

These are the REAL scaled numbers from the truck in my sig. All said and done, ignoring payload I would be within 350 lbs of my rear axle capacity on a 10k lb fifth wheel. I finally got it to stick... most 2500s are designed for travel trailers and not fifth wheels. On an 8600 lb travel trailer we are barely over on payload but have plenty of axle left. The same doesn't hold true on the 5th wheel.

 

[stevenP]

We had a 42 foot luxury fifth wheel for sale for a long time. It weighed 14,500 lbs, with a GVRW of 16k. Anyway the folks that bought it were from florida, and they drove all the way up here with a Gen4 2500 diesel. I told him that I dont think you have enough truck, but he didnt want to hear it. And off he went with the RV in tow. I was towing that rig, at the time with a DRW 3500 and it squatted with that pin weight pretty good.

 

[nlambert182]

I've done it with a 2500 once. Never again. My hands have permanent arthritis from wrenching on the steering wheel and somewhere out there is a 2012 2500 Ram with permanent finger molds in the steering wheel. No chance I'd ever do it twice.

 

[runamuck]

mine has no trouble towing our 10,000# 5th wheel. does not even squat much when hitched up. maybe the newer 2500's more capable

 

[nlambert182]

The opposite, unfortunately... They have a softer suspension with the coil springs in place of rear leafs. They'll do it, but you're almost guaranteed to be over payload.

The payload on the truck in my sig is 1,681 lbs. That heavy engine coupled (in my case) with the megacab in Laramie trim and the rear coils really kill payload. I can squeak in with the right fifth wheel under axle capacity but we decided not to even test it. Travel trailers work better with my specific truck.

My 2012 2500 towed a 34' fifth wheel with a 11.5k GVWR and was still within about 200 lbs of payload with us in it so well within axle capacity.

 

[2003F350]

The advice above is all really true, and grounded in fact. The biggest thing is, you COULD be liable in an accident - you likely won't be, but the possibility is there, so how much do you want to risk it? That choice is on the operator. If you were pulling for money, and you're over your ratings, then you probably WOULD be held liable - the laws are written more toward businesses but because of how vague they are they COULD be applied to personal vehicles.

All that to say that I have pulled fifth wheels with 3/4 ton trucks before, and this current truck has the fifth wheel prep in it so I've done it. I also have a higher payload than nlambert, I'm sitting at about 2100 lbs because I'm just a crew cab Bighorn with the camper/plow/snow chief groups, otherwise very similar trucks. My in-laws bought a new fifth wheel (I don't recall the numbers on it, but it seems like I was only over payload by a couple hundred pounds, but still within axle ratings), I had a hitch for my truck, so I pulled it home for them because his truck wasn't ready yet (wasn't fifth wheel prepped so had to have one installed). It didn't squat my truck too bad, nothing I was uncomfortable with, but then again I've been towing for 25+ years.

In short, you need to look at the actual numbers of your truck and the trailer you want to pull. If things are close you MIGHT be okay if you are experienced with towing heavy. If the numbers are way off, or you're uncomfortable pulling that setup, you MAY want to reconsider what you're doing.