5th wheel with short bed - a little worried

[BahlSacke]

Hey Everyone,

I know 5th wheel topics get brought up all the time, so apologies for starting another one. I have a 2016 2500 Cummins SB and I just bought my first fifth wheel. Its an older model with a square front, no taper. I bought a Curt E16 sliding hitch. To get to/from my house, I have about 6 areas that I am concerned with, mainly because I don't have a good spot the slide the hitch. This is my first 5th, and I'm stressing myself out (probably more than I really need to).

I have a number of turns that I worry about, but I know its situational, and no one is going to tell me whether or not I'll have an issue - so I'll skip those. However, I do have one spot that I think I could use advise:

I have two creek crossings, one after the other. This is going to put my truck at an incline while my 5th is on a decline, then my truck will go decline, while 5th is on incline, then back to truck incline/5th decline. My question is - is this best to do with the hitch slid back or slid forward? Do I also need to worry about the bottom of the 5th hitting my bed rails here? What about the pin box hitting the tailgate?

As for the turns, I'm half thinking about building a headache rack so that the 5th would hit that before the cab, thereby saving my cab. I'm not terribly worried about the 5th wheel (not that I want to damage it, but I'd much rather damage that and save the truck). The downfall is I'd obviously lose even more turning radius, so I'm on the fence as to whether or not that makes sense. I've built a few in the past and I probably have enough material already to build one lying around, so its not like it would cost me anything to build it and would only take me the better part of a day. Thoughts?

Last question, how flat do you truly need to be to slide the 5th wheel hitch? I have some potential areas I can pull over to slide the hitch near my house that are flat forward/backward, but the truck and 5th would be at an angle sitting sideways on a sloping shoulder. Does the side/side flatness matter?

Anyways, the hitch is coming today, and I wont have the 5th until next Thursday. I'm having the 5th delivered to my house, and am going to install the hitch probably next weekend. So, I'll gain a lot more knowledge once I actually have it installed and can look at it in person.

Edit: I should note that the 5th is on the shorter side at 27ft bumper to front of the nose, and about 27'8" to front of the hitch.

 

[mtofell]

Definitely slide back for ups/downs. This is actually the main reason I need a slider with mine - because my driveway slopes down heavily from the street. As my rear wheels are coming up the driveway apron the 5th's wheels are far down the slope. Moving the sloping trailer back from the truck helps prevent contact at the back corners. The same should help with truck going up and trailer going down as you describe.

As for the clearance while turning, all you can do is go slow and watch. I'd skip the headache rack as you're just going to beat the 5th wheel to death - and possibly push the rack into the truck anyway. Do some tests in a parking lot once you get all setup but be careful since even a slight change in grade level under the 5th can cause that clearance to change a lot. The test is just for rough estimate purposes.

Slide back is best done straight on and level. The slider hitches can be a bit finicky if you try to push them from odd angles. I think side to side matters less than trailer/truck being straight on but I'm kind of just guessing. I always try to do mine flat and straight.

That's a pretty small 5th wheel. I think you might be pleasantly surprised. My 5th is 35' and I've really never needed mine for turns. Also, I can (barely) make it into my steep driveway without sliding back but you couldn't slide a piece of paper between one of the rear bed corners and the underside of the 5th so I just always slide back. Also, you'll find sliding the hitch back makes for much quicker reaction (more like a TT) due to getting the pivot point behind the rear axle.

 

[BahlSacke]

Thanks. I'm going to take more measurements in the morning, but I think I will be fine slid back. The short bed, plus 12inches of slide backwards and my king pin is 6 to 10 inches in front of the front of the trailer, I probably won't really have much trailer above the bed anyways. My hitch can sit at 17" at the highest and my king pond drops probably a foot from the bottom of the trailer (guessing based on pictures, I didn't actually measure it). If I'm too nose high, I can flip the axles (theoretically). Thanks, I just need to get it here and quit thinking about it.

 

[Ratket]

Post up some pics. Sounds like you are on the right path

 

[BahlSacke]

Post up some pics. Sounds like you are on the right path

I dont have pics yet, am getting the 5th delivered Thursday and will install the hitch Saturday. I will update this thread when I know more.

 

[Focker]

I was under the impression that the slider hitch was more for sharp turns (maneuvering into camp sites) than anything else?

I have a SB and have had no issues with my 5th wheel.

Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances.

 

[BahlSacke]

I was under the impression that the slider hitch was more for sharp turns (maneuvering into camp sites) than anything else?

I have a SB and have had no issues with my 5th wheel.

Make sure that you have the appropriate clearances.

Thats my understanding, but I've heard that people have hit their beds when the truck and 5th are on different incline planes, which is what I'm worried about because of the creek crossings I have to go through (which most people wouldn't have to deal with under normal driving conditions - other than I've read a few people say they've hit their bed going in/out of gas stations). Whether thats predominantly a result of improper clearances, I'm not sure. Heres a crude modification to the drawing you posted. The red representing the bed as if the hitch weren't slid back how it could hit, but would clear with hitch slide back represented by black bed.

 

[Focker]

Heres a crude modification to the drawing you posted. The red representing the bed as if the hitch weren't slid back how it could hit, but would clear with hitch slide back represented by black bed.

In the drawing, the 5th wheel's kingpin is centered over the axle. A slider hitch will move the trailer back (towards the tailgate) about 8" to 10" depending on the slider hitch. The unmodified drawing is correct for a SB truck.

I guess you won't really know how things will measure up until you take delivery of the 5th wheel?

Here is a picture of my 5th wheel and my '97 Ram truck. I pulled this successfully, without issue. The only trouble I had was the fear of the trailer hitting the toolbox, so I sold the toolbox.

Since this photo was taken, I have lowered the hitch height by one notch. This allowed the trailer to ride more level. You want at least 5 to 7 inches between the bed rail and the fifth wheels overhang.


I was considering buying a co-worker's Ford Powerstroke and I mocked up the hitch height with blocks of wood in the back of his truck. You can see by the picture his truck was too tall for my trailer. My trailer has a spring over axle lift and it still wasn't enough for his truck.


I haven't pulled my 5th wheel with my '09 Ram yet. I hope it's like my' 97 was.

 

[BahlSacke]

In the drawing, the 5th wheel's kingpin is centered over the axle. A slider hitch will move the trailer back (towards the tailgate) about 8" to 10" depending on the slider hitch. The unmodified drawing is correct for a SB truck.

I guess you won't really know how things will measure up until you take delivery of the 5th wheel?

Here is a picture of my 5th wheel and my '97 Ram truck. I pulled this successfully, without issue. The only trouble I had was the fear of the trailer hitting the toolbox, so I sold the toolbox.

Since this photo was taken, I have lowered the hitch height by one notch. This allowed the trailer to ride more level. You want at least 5 to 7 inches between the bed rail and the fifth wheels overhang.


I was considering buying a co-worker's Ford Powerstroke and I mocked up the hitch height with blocks of wood in the back of his truck. You can see by the picture his truck was too tall for my trailer. My trailer has a spring over axle lift and it still wasn't enough for his truck.


I haven't pulled my 5th wheel with my '09 Ram yet. I hope it's like my' 97 was.

My truck is a 2016 Cummins and it seems to sit pretty high stock. Not sure how it compares to the 97 model. At the end of the day, I just need to get it here, install the hitch, and see where it all lies and go from there. Your 5th looks very similar in size, style and pin box configuration as the one I am getting.

The point of the picture I modified was to show if you have 6" of clearance at the hitch, you will always have 6" of clearance at the hitch. But if the truck is flat and the 5th is on an incline, that clearance will decrease near the tailgate, increase at the nose, but always stay at 6" at the hitch (hinge point). Whether or not this is something I really need to be concerned with, I dont know.

 

[MegaRam18]

My PullRite SuperGlide is automatic. And it only slides in the turning position. That should tell you something.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[mtofell]

Its an older model with a square front, no taper.

Older 5th wheels often don't work well with the newer taller bed trucks. I suspect you will have zero problems with the cab clearance due to the small size of that 5th but the height of your truck compared to the trucks an older is designed to be paired with could result in some problems. You may find the need to modify the suspension of the 5th to fit better with your truck. Basically, lift the 5th so it's level once attached. A lot of this is speculation but I think relative height between truck and 5th are going to be your biggest challenge.

 

[BahlSacke]

Older 5th wheels often don't work well with the newer taller bed trucks. I suspect you will have zero problems with the cab clearance due to the small size of that 5th but the height of your truck compared to the trucks an older is designed to be paired with could result in some problems. You may find the need to modify the suspension of the 5th to fit better with your truck. Basically, lift the 5th so it's level once attached. A lot of this is speculation but I think relative height between truck and 5th are going to be your biggest challenge.

Probably, once I get the 5th here and hitch installed I'm suspecting I'll have to do some more research to see what my options are with blocks, springs or subframe lift. I'm hoping I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not overly optimistic.

 

[Focker]

Probably, once I get the 5th here and hitch installed I'm suspecting I'll have to do some more research to see what my options are with blocks, springs or subframe lift. I'm hoping I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not overly optimistic.

 

[BahlSacke]

Got the 5th delivered last week and hitch installed this weekend. I'm not too concerned with my initial worries, but I obviously need to lift the 5th. Here's a couple pictures with the hitch forward and back. My driveway isnt perfectly flat so it was pitched slightly with one side (the side closest in the pictures) about 4" from the bed rail at the nose and 2" at the tail, and the other side was 6" at the nose and 4" at the tail - I'm pretty sure I measured with the hitch forward, but I dont remember. I have a spring over kit coming in the mail should lift it 5 - 6 I think, and I can raise my hitch another 2 - 3 inches if needed. Hopefully that'll get me high enough.

 

[Focker]

I think you definitely need to lift the trailer. I bet your axle flip will solve the problem.

Nice looking setup.

 

[BahlSacke]

Finished up the axle flip and what a pain in the ass that was. Not all that difficult necessarily, but jacking the thing up was a **** show and comprised about half the time spent. Absolutely no good place to Jack from, and felt sketchy as hell.

Anyways, the math says I should have 6" of lift, I didn't measure anything before/after on the rv, just the thickness of the axle, springs and perches, but it seems like i got about 6-7 inches.

Also moved the hitch up 2inches to the highest setting. I'm now at, from the bed rails, 7" at the nose and 6" at the highest part of the tail gate. I didn't think to measure frame to ground, but it seems pretty level as is, maybe a little bit nose high, but it's hard to tell. Overall height is about 11 1/2ft at tallest part of the roof and about 12ft at the ac cover. I have to do wheel bearings next weekend, then I'll finally get to tow her "around the block."

 

[Focker]

Looks way better... Nice work!

 

[Focker]

I received the bolt on bracket kit for my hitch yesterday. I pulled the trigger on the kit vs drilling into my 3/4 frame.

Hopefully it goes well.


Edit - It's installed. I'll hitch up to the trailer tomorrow and see if it all measures up.

 

[Focker]

I'm very happy with the results. This truck is a beast, could hardly notice the trailer.

 

[BahlSacke]

Looks good. I got the kit that bolts on also and it was still a pain! I dont even know how you would drill the holes, it was hard enough turning the bolts (on the drivers side anyways) - well worth the extra $80 or $100 whatever it was.

Question: it looks like your 5th is around the same size as mine (I'm 27ft) do you have a problem with bounce/porpousing? I took the 5th on a quick 5 mile drive with about a couple miles or so on the hwy at 55/60. I was getting a lot of bouncing. It wasn't a huge deal to me, but my wife gets car sick and I know she's going to hate it. I suspect it's either because I dont have enough tounge weight or the condition of the road. If I drive the truck by itself on the same highway if I'm going about 80 I do get some bounce going, so I'm hoping it's that, but I have no bounce there if im going 70. Unfortunately my water is at the back of the 5th so I cant fill it for more tounge weight, and it really sucks because I like to fill up at home and avoid filling up at the campground.

Next weekend I'm going to sanitize my water tank and tow it to a local campground to dump, so I'll get to see how it reacts with a bit more tounge weight in the gray tank, and then on the way home I'll see how it acts with empty tanks and no camping gear. We have a site booked for the 29th weekend, so I'll get to then see how it does with normal camping load, and if I still have this bounce I guess I'll have to look into some potential options. This "cheap" 5th wheel is nickle and diming me to death.

Edit: I should also say I drove through all the trouble spots I was worried about with the hitch forward, and cab clearance was never an issue. However, going through the creek crossings I mentioned in my first post, I came very close to the bed, definitely less than an inch - I thought I hit my bed rail, but I cant see any evidence of that on the truck or 5th. It's a dirt road and has some pot holes and is off camber, so experience may vary depending on which line I take. I'll probably pull it through with the hitch slid back next time and see if I get more clearance.