AC woes. ...Again

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My AC quit working again. Now it's popping fuse 62.

Replaced the fuse once and AC worked for a day and a half before blowing again. The last fuse I put in popped right away.

If I use a jumper wire, the AC clutch engages and the AC gets cold, but I only let the compressor run for 5 sconds or so because if something is drawing too many amps, I don't want to overheat anything.

Is anything else powered off fuse 62, or is it JUST the AC compressor clutch?

Anyone know how many ohms the clutch should measure at?

How difficult is it to change just the clutch and save myself hundreds of dollars in R1234?
 

mdc1990zr1

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My AC quit working again. Now it's popping fuse 62.

Replaced the fuse once and AC worked for a day and a half before blowing again. The last fuse I put in popped right away.

If I use a jumper wire, the AC clutch engages and the AC gets cold, but I only let the compressor run for 5 sconds or so because if something is drawing too many amps, I don't want to overheat anything.

Is anything else powered off fuse 62, or is it JUST the AC compressor clutch?

Anyone know how many ohms the clutch should measure at?

How difficult is it to change just the clutch and save myself hundreds of dollars in R1234?
It’s not hard to change the clutch, I’ve done that before. Refrigerant is untouched. I haven’t seen clutches sold separately in a long time
 
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I was lazy and didn't touch the AC since it started acting up. It wasn't an issue since we were headed into fall and cooler weather.
Now that spring has arrived and temps are rising, I'd like to fix the AC. Going to tackle some electrical troubleshooting first. Anyone know how many ohms the AC clutch should read? And what is the 2nd plug on the back of the compressor? What all components are controlled by the 40 amp AC fuse? 40 amps seems like a lot for just an AC clutch...
 

Recoil

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If you are able to jump the fuse and the compressor kicks in and produces cold air, it shouldn't be a clutch issue, unless the clutch is not kicking out and building up too much pressure in the AC system.

Am I to assume that you are talking about the truck in your signature, a 2020 Ram 1500? If so, I see that the AC clutch is fuse #45 which is a 10 amp fuse. Fuse #62 shows as the trailer stop/turn lamp left and is a 20 amp fuse.
 
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******* Dodge! 62? 45? WTF?! it’s like they don’t want us to work on our own vehicles.

Yes. This is a 2020 Ram 1500 Classic with a 5.7 v8.

My power distribution center says 45 is a spare and 62 is the AC clutch.

My finger is pointing to where the fuse that keeps blowing goes. When I replaced the fuse my AC worked for a few days or few weeks. I don’t recall. When it stopped working I found that fuse blown.

What all is on that fuse, so I can check everything and what should the clutch ohm out at, and what is the 2nd electrical connection at the back of the compressor, and what should it ohm at?
 

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Let me follow up…. I may have created my profile/signature before I understood what ‘classic’ meant, not realizing Dodge was so stupid as to make “the old model” at the same time as making “the new model” and I just thought ‘classic’ meant ‘budget model with limited options’ my buddies even joked with me when they learned it had 17” wheels and asked if it was a V6 base model.
 

alpinegreenneon

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Pull a AC compressor at a self serve junkyard. Get some really good snap ring pliers with a deep reach and you will figure it out. There are you tube videos.
 
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Pull a AC compressor at a self serve junkyard. Get some really good snap ring pliers with a deep reach and you will figure it out. There are you tube videos.
uhmm... Thanks.

You'll note that I want to troubleshoot not throw parts at it. Why replace the compressor clutch if the problem is the variable displacement solenoid on the back of the compressor? What if the problem is a faulty sensor somewhere that's on the same relay?
 

alpinegreenneon

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Fuses usually blow when there is a short to ground. It could be a short when the clutch solenoid wires heat up or a short somewhere in the harness when engine vibration moves the harness enough. A junkyard clutch should be a cheap test if you pull just the AC clutch.
 
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I know what causes fuses to blow... amperage flow in excess of the rating of the fuse for a certian amount of time. (fast acting vs slow blow). Yes that can be caused by short to ground. But reduced resistance in a component can increase amperage as well, for example, using rough numbers, if a soleniod/coil normally has say 3 ohms of resistance through the windings but for whatever reason now has 1 ohm, on a 12v system, the amperage will tripple from 4 amps to 12. On a 10 amp fuse that goes from acceptable to blowing fuses.

From what I gather on google (take it with a grain of salt. I'd rather get data from the source aka FSM) the average AC compressor should draw 2-4 amps, so why is it a 20 amp fuse? Just seems like there has to be other components on the circuit to require a 20 amp instead of a 5 or 10, no?

Again I don't want to just throw parts at this. I temporarilly applied 12v to the AC clutch for 3-5 seconds and felt the high pressure line get hot and the low pressure side start to chill, so I don't know that it's necessarily the clutch, thus why I don't want to throw junkyard parts at it.

Where does the power for the solenoid that actuates the variable displacement feature receive it's power from? does the e-fan operate on the same circuit so that it turns off and on in conjunction with the compressor? are any of the sensors receiving power from that fuse? if one of those are dead shorted and receiving power from that fuse, changing the clutch from a junkyard compressor gets me nowhere.
 

alpinegreenneon

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24 - Heating and Air Conditioning / Plumbing / COMPRESSOR, A/C / Operation

OPERATION - COMPRESSOR

VARIABLE DISPLACEMENT A/C COMPRESSOR

NOTE:
Typical variable displacement A/C compressor shown.
ramACVDcompressor.jpg

The Denso 7SBH17C A/C compressor is a Variable Displacement Compressor (VDC) which is driven by the engine through a LE40 Clutch (1) and pulley (2). This compressor uses an integral control solenoid (3) to reduce or increase the stroke of the pistons (4) within the compressor by automatically adjusting the angle of the swashplate (5).

The A/C compressor draws in low-pressure refrigerant vapor from the A/C evaporator through its suction port. It then compresses the refrigerant into a high-pressure, high-temperature refrigerant vapor, which is then pumped to the A/C condenser through the compressor discharge port. The A/C compressor is lubricated by refrigerant oil that is circulated throughout the refrigerant system with the refrigerant (Refer to 24 - Heating and Air Conditioning/Plumbing/OIL, Refrigerant - Standard Procedure) .

The A/C compressor is controlled by the HVAC module. The HVAC module calculates compressor displacement required by A/C system load and demand by monitoring vehicle speed, A/C high side pressure, engine speed, evaporator temperature, accelerator pedal position, ambient temperature and A/C heater request signals. The HVAC module then sends a Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) signal to the A/C compressor control solenoid to increase or decrease refrigerant flow. The amount of refrigerant allowed to pass through the compressor determines the head pressure which controls the angle of the swashplate, which in turn, determines the amount of compressor displacement. When there is no demand for A/C, the swashplate is adjusted to nearly a zero degree angle, which removes compressor torque drag from the engine. When a greater displacement is needed, the PWM duty cycle is higher and when a lesser displacement is needed, the PWM duty cycle is lower. Maximum duty cycle is 100% making the displacement the maximum the compressor is capable of producing. Conversely, minimum duty cycle is limited to approximately 11% of compressor displacement capacity.

This A/C compressor will reduce the displacement of the compressor based on ambient air temperature. For example; as the outside temperature falls from 27° C (80° F) to 19° C (66° F), the amount of refrigerant flow required through the A/C orifice tube to keep the A/C evaporator cool becomes less, and the swashplate is adjusted to a lower angle, which reduces compressor displacement. However, due to the lower outside air temperature, panel air outlet temperature will not noticeably change.

The A/C compressor control system is diagnosed using a scan tool (Refer to 24 - Heating and Air Conditioning - Diagnosis and Testing) .

CAUTION:
Do NOT run the engine with a vacuum pump in operation or with a vacuum present within the A/C system when equipped with a variable displacement A/C compressor. Failure to follow this caution will result in serious A/C compressor damage.

CAUTION:
Be certain to adjust the refrigerant system oil level when replacing an A/C compressor . Failure to properly adjust the refrigerant oil level can prevent the A/C system from operating as designed and can cause serious A/C compressor damage.

ramACspecs2.jpg

HVACatcschematic.jpg
HVACmtcschematic.jpg
 

Fast69Mopar

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I know what causes fuses to blow... amperage flow in excess of the rating of the fuse for a certian amount of time. (fast acting vs slow blow). Yes that can be caused by short to ground. But reduced resistance in a component can increase amperage as well, for example, using rough numbers, if a soleniod/coil normally has say 3 ohms of resistance through the windings but for whatever reason now has 1 ohm, on a 12v system, the amperage will tripple from 4 amps to 12. On a 10 amp fuse that goes from acceptable to blowing fuses.

From what I gather on google (take it with a grain of salt. I'd rather get data from the source aka FSM) the average AC compressor should draw 2-4 amps, so why is it a 20 amp fuse? Just seems like there has to be other components on the circuit to require a 20 amp instead of a 5 or 10, no?

Again I don't want to just throw parts at this. I temporarilly applied 12v to the AC clutch for 3-5 seconds and felt the high pressure line get hot and the low pressure side start to chill, so I don't know that it's necessarily the clutch, thus why I don't want to throw junkyard parts at it.

Where does the power for the solenoid that actuates the variable displacement feature receive it's power from? does the e-fan operate on the same circuit so that it turns off and on in conjunction with the compressor? are any of the sensors receiving power from that fuse? if one of those are dead shorted and receiving power from that fuse, changing the clutch from a junkyard compressor gets me nowhere.
Looking at the wiring diagram for your truck, the A/C Compressor clutch is hardwired from the PDC to the clutch and from the clutch to ground. There are no splices that the wiring is routed through.

Fuse #62 comes out of the PDC on the C3 connector Pin #9 Dark Blue/Yellow wire and is your fused B+ voltage to the clutch.

The compressor ground is hardwired to the G908A ground at the right rear corner of the engine compartment.

I don't see anything else in the wiring diagram on the clutch circuit.

A/C Clutch Control Circuit from the PCM is in the C2 Connector Pin #79 Blue/Orange and it is hardwired directly to the PDC C3 Connector Pin #10.

Fuse #75 is the Ignition Run/Start Relay which also provides B+ voltage to the A/C Clutch Relay inside the PDC.
 
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Thank you both. That information is very helpful! Hopefully I don't get into a situation where I need to scan tool to diagnose the system. I seem to recall not being able to find it or not being able to connect to it with ALphaOBD last fall when I first started looking into the issue.
 

Fast69Mopar

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Thank you both. That information is very helpful! Hopefully I don't get into a situation where I need to scan tool to diagnose the system. I seem to recall not being able to find it or not being able to connect to it with ALphaOBD last fall when I first started looking into the issue.
You will need the bypass cable to do anything with AlfaOBD or a scan tool. Without the bypass cable you can read codes and data but you won't be able to make any changes and utilize Alfa like it was designed.

I use my scan tools daily for my shop so I pay the subscription fee for AutoAuth.
 
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You will need the bypass cable to do anything with AlfaOBD or a scan tool. Without the bypass cable you can read codes and data but you won't be able to make any changes and utilize Alfa like it was designed.

I use my scan tools daily for my shop so I pay the subscription fee for AutoAuth.
Thanks. I have the bypass cable and left it permanetly installed. One of the first things I did was add a factory trailer brake controller and activate it in the computer so it would display on the dash.
 

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