Alpine Premium Upgrade Question: Now what?

[Cykotherapy]

I've read through many of the related posts here and they have been very helpful. They have helped me bring my system a long way from the original "premium" crap, but it needs just a bit more before I am (hopefully) satisfied.

I've done most of the plug and play type stuff recommended here:

Replaced all 3 dash speakers with JL gx302, replaced rear doors with JL club 9630's, and the sub with the same 8" Pioneer many people are using. I did some deadening in the rear doors and tried to reinforce the stock sub box with left over soundskin plus some polyfill.

My sound is much improved, but is still too lacking in bass and bright overall, plus the mids are overbearing and can sound muddy at times. The front speakers dominate. I have the factory EQ set with the bass way up +7-8 and the mids - 2-3 and treb - 1-2. Some songs sound good and others pretty bad. I play around with the fade to try to adjust for the dominating fronts. Sometimes that sounds better than others. Also it seems the rear door speaker by the sub isn't nearly as clear as the one behind me.

I've considered buying a new box for the sub, but 8 inch boxes are hard to find and adapting a 10" seems like asking for trouble. Also I'd like to keep my storage platforms if possible. I'm thinking about spraying the interior of the box with Boom Mat stuff just to keep pecking away at improvements.

I've also considered rings and/or baffles for the rear door speakers, but there is a lot of contradictory info out there on these.

I'm thinking my next step is adding an amp and LC2i and maybe some resisters to tone down the fronts, but I'm not very sure. This seems like a fork in the road type of decision point and I don't want to screw it up. Money is limited as I want to make other upgrades, but I want to do it right. I'd really like a broader adjustable EQ, but cracking open the dash and messing with the head unit feel over my paygrade.

Should I just get a mono amp to power the sub or would a 2 channel so I can power the rear doors too (Is this right?) be a better bang for the buck?

I don't need thumping bass, just looking for SQ with what I'd call full bass.

Thanks so much.

 

[TomT]

My first recommendation is to have a complete plan before doing anything else. You can do things in stages that will get you to the final goal.

Step 1 should be to plan on using a Pac Audio AmpPRO interface to pull a clean signal from the Alpine system.
https://pac-audio.com/catalog/amppro-amplifier-interfaces/ap4-ch41

To allow you the control you’re looking for, you’ll probably want a DSP (Digital Signal Processor). They run from a few hundred to over a grand depending on how many channels and what features you need.

Since you’ve already replaced the speakers you could add the PAC, an 8 channel DSP and then a single sub amp and a six channel amp to run everything else.

 

[KCaudill]

I would look into the Rockford Fosgate DSR1 also. It uses Maestro to interface into the Ram radio and has a Bluetooth DSP built in that you control by an app on your phone.

lhttps://www.crutchfield.com/p_575DSR1/Rockford-Fosgate-DSR1.html

 

[Cykotherapy]

My first recommendation is to have a complete plan before doing anything else. You can do things in stages that will get you to the final goal.

Step 1 should be to plan on using a Pac Audio AmpPRO interface to pull a clean signal from the Alpine system.
https://pac-audio.com/catalog/amppro-amplifier-interfaces/ap4-ch41

To allow you the control you’re looking for, you’ll probably want a DSP (Digital Signal Processor). They run from a few hundred to over a grand depending on how many channels and what features you need.

Since you’ve already replaced the speakers you could add the PAC, an 8 channel DSP and then a single sub amp and a six channel amp to run everything else.

Thanks. That sounds like a real solid, but expensive, approach. I wonder if I need to get that involved as I feel like my current sound quality is close to where I want it to be. I like to rock out, but I'm no audiophile. I'm just a plug n play type of guy.

 

[TomT]

Thanks. That sounds like a real solid, but expensive, approach. I wonder if I need to get that involved as I feel like my current sound quality is close to where I want it to be. I like to rock out, but I'm no audiophile. I'm just a plug n play type of guy.

The problem is that it can be difficult to do much more than you already have and get good results without going in a bit deeper. If you are adding only a sub amp then the LC2i can give you a decent result when paired with an amp and maybe a different sub. The LC2i is $100, the PAC unit is $250 so there is a $150 difference there. However, if you think you'll ever want to do more to the system, then odds are that you'll end up buying the PAC anyway or at least replacing the LC2i with one of their larger units at about the same cost of the PAC.

What leads me towards suggesting the PAC and a DSP is your desire to adjust the individual levels between the dash, door, and rear speakers along with wanting the ability to EQ each of them individually. In order to achieve that level of control you would need to completely bypass the factory Alpine amplifier and use aftermarket amps.

I would advise against the DSR1 as it seems to still have some issues with the software. It was terrible in the beginning and they have fixed almost all the major issues over the last six months of software updates. I do still hear about individuals having little weird issues here and there that are hard to diagnose. That said, Rockford and the Maestro team have been very good about working with people.

 

[Eestee70]

My first recommendation is to have a complete plan before doing anything else. You can do things in stages that will get you to the final goal.

Step 1 should be to plan on using a Pac Audio AmpPRO interface to pull a clean signal from the Alpine system.
https://pac-audio.com/catalog/amppro-amplifier-interfaces/ap4-ch41

To allow you the control you’re looking for, you’ll probably want a DSP (Digital Signal Processor). They run from a few hundred to over a grand depending on how many channels and what features you need.

Since you’ve already replaced the speakers you could add the PAC, an 8 channel DSP and then a single sub amp and a six channel amp to run everything else.

I have a Mosconi 6to8 V8 for sale of the forum, may work for him

 

[Cykotherapy]

The problem is that it can be difficult to do much more than you already have and get good results without going in a bit deeper. If you are adding only a sub amp then the LC2i can give you a decent result when paired with an amp and maybe a different sub. The LC2i is $100, the PAC unit is $250 so there is a $150 difference there. However, if you think you'll ever want to do more to the system, then odds are that you'll end up buying the PAC anyway or at least replacing the LC2i with one of their larger units at about the same cost of the PAC.

What leads me towards suggesting the PAC and a DSP is your desire to adjust the individual levels between the dash, door, and rear speakers along with wanting the ability to EQ each of them individually. In order to achieve that level of control you would need to completely bypass the factory Alpine amplifier and use aftermarket amps.

I would advise against the DSR1 as it seems to still have some issues with the software. It was terrible in the beginning and they have fixed almost all the major issues over the last six months of software updates. I do still hear about individuals having little weird issues here and there that are hard to diagnose. That said, Rockford and the Maestro team have been very good about working with people.

Thanks for your well thought out and detailed response. I really appreciate it. What you say makes good sense. I may need to save a bit more before going further. Another thought I had yesterday was regarding the headliner tweeters. I wonder if disconnecting them would reduce the brightness. I mean obviously it would but would it sound better overall. Also wondering if replacing them with a speaker that could bring in some lower tones would be helpful. On the Alpine system if you disconnect speakers does it make more power available to the remaining speakers such as the sub? I'm doubting that but I'm such a newb on this stuff I thought I'd ask.

 

[autokraftgt]

You are running factory speakers in your FRONT doors still? You replaced the back 6x9's tho....maybe try the new 6x9's in the front doors and put the factory 6x9's back into the rear doors....speakers behind you will always be less of a priority than the ones in front of you (with the exception of subwoofers of course) try that....its virtually free to try ...only spending time but its worth a shot at this point

 

[TomT]

When I did my full system I intentionally killed the tweeters in the ceiling. My feeling is that having tweeters behind your head is absolutely dumb unless you’re watching a movie in Dolby Atmos. Try disconnecting them and see what happens. Doing that won’t change the power to anything else unfortunately.

You added three tweeters on the dash when you swapped those out. Without a way to add more power to the midbasses in the doors, there’s no easy way to balance that out. You could try adding resistors to attenuate the dash speakers a bit but I think that would be more trouble than its worth.

 

[Jeffmiller32]

Can 2nd going with the PAC AmpPRO. Could not be easier especially if you are looking for plug and play. Zero distortion up to full blast. I’m paired with a RF 750.1 and the single JLstealthbox. Good thump but not too overly aggressive or obnoxious. Just amped up my kickers. Did 6.5 2 ways in the front doors, 3 way 6x9s in the rear, and 3.5 in the dash. I may add a DSP in the future but I am very happy with the sounds as it is.

 

[Cykotherapy]

Can 2nd going with the PAC AmpPRO. Could not be easier especially if you are looking for plug and play. Zero distortion up to full blast. I’m paired with a RF 750.1 and the single JLstealthbox. Good thump but not too overly aggressive or obnoxious. Just amped up my kickers. Did 6.5 2 ways in the front doors, 3 way 6x9s in the rear, and 3.5 in the dash. I may add a DSP in the future but I am very happy with the sounds as it is.

Do you think the front doors were worth it? I know they only get midbass out of the factory amp, but I've wondered if they wouldn't be worth replacing.

 

[Cykotherapy]

When I did my full system I intentionally killed the tweeters in the ceiling. My feeling is that having tweeters behind your head is absolutely dumb unless you’re watching a movie in Dolby Atmos. Try disconnecting them and see what happens. Doing that won’t change the power to anything else unfortunately.

You added three tweeters on the dash when you swapped those out. Without a way to add more power to the midbasses in the doors, there’s no easy way to balance that out. You could try adding resistors to attenuate the dash speakers a bit but I think that would be more trouble than its worth.

I took the headliners out and WOW that sounds different. They really dominated the soundstage. Not sure why I never realized that being they are right behind your head.

I wasn't sure I liked it at first but after adjusting EQ/Fade I'm liking it better.

 

[Cykotherapy]

If I went "cheap" with a LC2i and a mono or 2 ch amp to power the sub, would that be a good first step? Then if I want to continue down the upgrade road I can add the Amp Pro and a 5 channel (?) amp. Is that a decent plan of "escalation"? Keep in mind I'm not crazy about wiring projects. The idea of tearing into my truck fills me with a sort of dread...and yet I still want good sound. I'm thinking since I already invested in the little 8" Pioneer sub I might as well power the little fella and he if he is up to the job.

 

[autokraftgt]

If I went "cheap" with a LC2i and a mono or 2 ch amp to power the sub, would that be a good first step? Then if I want to continue down the upgrade road I can add the Amp Pro and a 5 channel (?) amp. Is that a decent plan of "escalation"? Keep in mind I'm not crazy about wiring projects. The idea of tearing into my truck fills me with a sort of dread...and yet I still want good sound. I'm thinking since I already invested in the little 8" Pioneer sub I might as well power the little fella and he if he is up to the job.

Adding a mono amp for the sub is a good idea, I like mono amps for subwoofer duties cause you can get great power for the money and I like the simplicity of a mono amp in general.

 

[Jeffmiller32]

If I went "cheap" with a LC2i and a mono or 2 ch amp to power the sub, would that be a good first step? Then if I want to continue down the upgrade road I can add the Amp Pro and a 5 channel (?) amp. Is that a decent plan of "escalation"? Keep in mind I'm not crazy about wiring projects. The idea of tearing into my truck fills me with a sort of dread...and yet I still want good sound. I'm thinking since I already invested in the little 8" Pioneer sub I might as well power the little fella and he if he is up to the job.

You wouldn’t need a lot of power of to push that sub. Any inexpensive amp will do it. Crutchfield has quite a few under $150 that will be more than capable of getting the job done.

The other thing with AmpPRO that you’re missing is that it takes away all the factory tuning that tries and makes those garbage speakers sound good. Even before I added the amp to the speakers the AmpPRO made a night a day difference with the speakers.

 

[Cykotherapy]

You wouldn’t need a lot of power of to push that sub. Any inexpensive amp will do it. Crutchfield has quite a few under $150 that will be more than capable of getting the job done.

The other thing with AmpPRO that you’re missing is that it takes away all the factory tuning that tries and makes those garbage speakers sound good. Even before I added the amp to the speakers the AmpPRO made a night a day difference with the speakers.

So I can use the Amp Pro with the factory amp while I save more pennies for a better amp? Please forgive my ignorance of that's a stupid question

 

[Jeffmiller32]

So I can use the Amp Pro with the factory amp while I save more pennies for a better amp? Please forgive my ignorance of that's a stupid question

Yeah. It makes better use of the aftermarket speakers you purchased as well as that sub.

If you’re going to save up for an amp I’d go with a 5 channel. Quite a few between $200-300. You can get an amp kit from amazon. I used knukonceptz and it was $32. Pretty good quality for the price. Most decent stereo shops should install an 5 channel amp for less than $200. They charged me $120 to install my 4 channel and did a good job. I wasn’t comfortable hacking the harness to run the speaker wire. Well worth the cost.