Anyone see any problems with this air-bag setup I want to try?

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Black06ram

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I have a set of Firestone Air bags that I took off of my buddies 1939 Ford street-rod when we switched it over to coil overs and notched the frame. These bags don't have a part number, but I know they are lift bags because he used them for years to keep the car off of the pavement while traveling to shows. I also took the on-board compressor, but not sure I will use it yet. Before I go and mount these up, I wanted to see if I am overlooking any unforseen issues ?

This is to go on my 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT 5.7 hemi with rear wheel drive only. I do construction and haul a lot of tools, but also end up picking up large weights of stone, block, soil, lumber, and metal. Kinda tired of hearing the magnaflow exhaust clang on the truck's underside while I am heavily loaded down. These bags should do the trick, but I know I would have the mount them up on a 1-off basis. For the photos, the top ears of the bracket are higher then where I would actually mount it (they just sat that way fully extended ). Not going to drill. It will be no problem for me to MIG weld them to the frame, and then get the bottom secured with the shackle on the leaf springs. I also am aware that there are specific kits for sale designed for my truck, but these work, are free, and i can weld them in. Unless, someone sees any potential problems with mounting, suspension travel, clearance, etc. Please let me know, thanks!!

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Smokeybear01

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It seems to me that your weakest link in the setup is going to be the weld to the frame. If you're good with that, I'd do it. My opinion. But then, I've done lots of stuff in my life that makes people scratch their heads. Good luck,
 

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The problems i see is what you already know, you are overloaded with the stuff you are carrying. These bags will just transfer the weight exponentially magnified by the downward force as you hit bumps, and put it somewhere new in your suspension. I see at least busted bags, and possibly busted springs in your future. That will be $15, savings of $5 as I didn't need to get my tarot cards out.
 

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My Q is why would want to mount the air bag in front of the axel an not on top of the axel, the way you show how you want it to be in your photo, you are going to be putting weight on the springs where it does not belong IMO...
 

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My Q is why would want to mount the air bag in front of the axel an not on top of the axel, the way you show how you want it to be in your photo, you are going to be putting weight on the springs where it does not belong IMO...
This. Most airbags mounts are designed to put force directly down on the axle, not a lever load, even slightly, like OP mocked up.
 

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Good eye, 06. I didn't even notice that he was putting the load on the spring and not the axle. My bad. I would have to rethink that the way he has it mocked up.
 
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Black06ram

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Yup, so before typing all this up, I was also convinced that these would have to go above the axle, so i was a bit disappointed when I saw how tall they were.. But, then I wondered if I could find any more info on the internet. Starting with search terms for the firestone ait bags and air-ride, I was glad to find this link which showed a set of firestone bags directly bolted in front of the axle tube. Is it ideal...?...no. But will It work, thats why I am here asking questions.

Check out this link to instructions:

screenshot from video:
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I went to the air-ride site, clicked on their Ride Control kit which is part#59551. Similar bag design. I downloaded the installation instruction which is found on the "Technical Specs Tab" and their instructions have photos and text showing the bag not being mounted on top of the axle tube. In fact, they suggest mounting the bag behind the axle tube as opposed to how I had it mocked-up which would be in-front of the axle tube.
Here is the link:
file:///C:/Users/Dave/Downloads/MN-495_59551.pdf

screenshot:
52733639718_e8e5e40daf_z.jpgUntitled by David Martin, on Flickr




and then again, another company doing it this way with a newer style bag kit..



So, after seeing some reputable places having it setup that way, I figured it might be possible. Since I didn't want to overlook any unforeseen problems that I may not know about regarding these model trucks, I wanted to cover my bases and ask the good people of the forum here.

The truck is my daily driver, so I was hopeful I could make this work safely and effectively, again, since i already have the bags, they work, the fit the area, and I have no issue welding them in place..... no need for me to drill holes in the frame because then I am also relying more on the "shear strength ratings" of whatever bolts would through bolt the upper bracket to the frame.

Thank you all for the replies, feel free to keep the advice coming, it will help shape my decision. The more technical details you give, the better. thanks.
 
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Black06ram

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The problems i see is what you already know, you are overloaded with the stuff you are carrying. These bags will just transfer the weight exponentially magnified by the downward force as you hit bumps, and put it somewhere new in your suspension. I see at least busted bags, and possibly busted springs in your future. That will be $15, savings of $5 as I didn't need to get my tarot cards out.

I appreciate that advice, and I do understand what you are saying. I agree with part of it, but not the potential destruction you foresee. Are you specifically discussing my specific setup? ..... because in a way it seems like you are saying any/all air bag systems will cause havoc with any/all vehicles that were not engineered to use them originally. If that was the case, none of these well established aftermarket suspension companies selling air bags would make a single sale... so thats where your thought process seems flawed. And angry customers would sure be a well know topic, but that just doesn't seem to be the case, especially with a simple helper air-bag setup lime mine. Again, I am being technical here, not being a jerk.
 

06 Dodge

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OMG... IMHO no way would I ever advise anyone to mount an air bag in that location, it put undue stress on that spring location that was never intended to be placed on the spring. As for bolts high quality grade 5-8 bolts should hold up well along with a good weld job, I would not trust just bolts or just a weld, I would use both, but then that's me... Its your truck do as you wish but coming from being around Class 8 trucks I see it as an accident wanting to happen...
 
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Black06ram

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Thanks for the reply. I hear ya on the engineering of it, but I still am stuck on the fact that the mainstream companies develop and sell air bag kits that mount on the spring ahead of the axle tube. Trust me, I don't want to have an accident or be unsafe, but I'm looking to resolve or alleviate my load capacity issue without spending $340 on a new kit. What else do people suggest here for me?
 

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You trust your welding ability, is there a way to adapt the air bag plate to the leaf spring upper plate?
 

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You are definitely doing your research and I applaud you for that. I hope whatever you decide works out for you. Smokey
 

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You trust your welding ability, is there a way to adapt the air bag plate to the leaf spring upper plate?
Based on what I can see yes a new plate could be made to weld to the bag base, but you would need to have someone who can bend 1/4 inch steel plate for you...
 
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Black06ram

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I still kinda think I could try to make something work with the bag on top of the axle tube, so I will give it a better look over on Sunday if I can get some free time. Part of my thinks it will be an issue with height and having to squeeze the bag lower, yet still find a way to keep it with the advised minimum 5 psi per bag. I am going to try, because I do agree that it would be the optimal way to do this.

However, if I find out I can't make t work, I will have to go with Plan B....

Yesterday, I called Air-Ride tech support to discuss their reasons in kit # 59551, for mounting the bag setup exactly the way I originally intended to. I was told that they have had this style air-bag mounting on the spring for decades and it is "absolutely fine". The tech guy said he's never heard of any customer complaints resulting from this mounting method and hes worked there for a long time. He mentioned that my ride stiffness would increase and I knew that but it made sense.
the 59551 kit (instructions and sketches are in the technical specs" tab on this website:

After all this discussion, I am thinking that I want to try to mount the bag bracket on the rear half of the spring (behind the axle tube). In my original post, I had the bag in front of the axle, closer to the middle of the car. I think that mounting it behind the axle tube, towards the rear bumper. I am considering through-bolting it with some Heavy duty bolts and then also welding it. If the snow stops by Sunday, I am hoping to get this done by the end of this weekend.
 
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Black06ram

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Well, during this past ultra busy weekend, I did find a small amount of free time to get these welded in place. I was thinking of also through-bolting them to the frame, but decided to hold off for now. I can always go back and drill some holes for through-bolts later. I welded most of the perimeter of the bracket, but some areas I made a double pass on top and it got a little sloppy. Usually I am able to take time to get the weld real good, but I had to do this outside and in a rush so I am stuck with what I got. Structurally sound, but some welds got a little sloppy.

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For the bottom bracket, I got rid of the carriage bolts that are typically used, because they were not long enough for my stack of springs. I went through my container of big heavy duty hardware and pulled out some old cylinder head bolts that I think came off of my '95 jeep wranglers engine when I did a head-gasket job. These are plenty strong too.

I plan on running both air-bag air-lines to a T-fitting and then running the schrader valve fill-end up into the gas door flap so I can pop a little hole and have my schrader valve right behind the gas door for easy pressure adjustments. However, since I was tight on time this weekend. I just made a short little length of lien and ran the valves to an existing hole in the body. I aired up both bags to 25 psi and then I sprayed everything down with soapy water to check for leaks and found none. Test drive went well, hit a few pot-holes and speed bumps on purpose to check for noises and whatnot, but all was well. Drove 130 miles on them yesterday with just a few hundred pounds of tools and it rides great. Will probably run 10 psi normally and then add air depending on if I am hauling a big load of stone or whatever.

So, so far its a success and I can finish the air line later. I also have the onboard compressor if I do choose to install it one day.


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oh


-Sidenote. My neighbor who had the bags on his 39 ford truck went and found the instruction book for the bags that was in his vehicle paperwork file cabinet because I was chatting with him about how I was initially skeptical of mounting the bags off-axis from the axle tube. Everything in the printed out instructions shows that the bags are SUPPOSED To be mounted either in front/or behind the axle tube... so I am still beyond comfortable with my decision to mount these this way. For those who were unsure or doubtful, please rest easy, because this is apparently the way that air-ride, firestone, ride-tech, and many others have engineered and approved these bags to be mounted. For those people who were very against me doing it this way, I just want to let you know that I was initially thinking that way too, but no longer am I worried about the location.


It is kit 90007076 which is the Rolling sleeve air spring kit. also known as kit 7076 which can hold 800 pounds of payload at 100psi for the pair. I checked my ride height before and after and with 25 psi of air in the bags, the fender height went up 1/4 " on the drivers side and 5/16" on the passenger side.

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yes optimal location is over the axle, but that being said their are 1000s of people running them the way you have them in your picture just as the manufacturer designed them with no issues, your actually spreading some of the load out over the spring instead of 100% of the load on a 4" area and thats why you see leave springs broke above the axle trying to have a load over a 4" area, same as bolting the kits in lots of them out their that way and i have yet to see or hear of a failure, heck big rigs air bags are bolted in and no issues and most of them only have 1 bolt on the bottom..

Have you looked up the mounting kit for your application?
 

Smokeybear01

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I have 10 air bags on my motor coach and yes, they only have 1 bolt in the bottom to hold them in place. No springs though, just bags. Glad you did the research and proved some of us head scratchers wrong haha. Good on you, Smokey
 
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Black06ram

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nice !


this past weekend, I hauled home a few loads of stone and a 1.5 yard load of topsoil. I had the bags up to 80psi. They held just fine, and the truck drove really great. That is for a project I am doing at home, so its not common that I will be hauling this amount on a frequent basis, but it did really well. Afterwards, it got a much needed wash and cleanup inside/outside.

I will certainly be carving out some time to hook up the on-board air-compressor, psi gauge, bleed valve, and T- the two airbag lines together.



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