Does A New 6.4 Have Special break in Oil?

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Travelin Ram

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I'm at about 250 miles now and driving like an old lady per the manual.
Emphasis added:
“A long break-in period is not required for the engine and drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.

Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km). After the initial 60 miles (100 km), speeds up to 50 or 55 mph (80 or 90 km/h) are desirable.

While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in. Wide-open throttle acceleration in low gear can be detrimental and should be avoided.

The engine oil installed in the engine at the factory is a high-quality energy conserving type lubricant. Oil changes should be consistent with anticipated climate conditions under which vehicle operations will occur. For the recommended viscosity and quality grades "⇨ENGINE FLUIDS AND LUBRICANTS".”
 

ramsare4real

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I think the 1500's show a 10,000 mile OCI.
Yep! My bad. Not that it makes much of a difference; I'll keep doing 10K.
The tick (other than the one in some owners' heads) is due to poor metallurgic, not to lack of magic oil choice.
 
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Tulecreeper

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Here you go.

“For Gasoline Engines, under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 8,000 miles (13,000 km), 12 months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first. The 350 hours of engine run or idle time is generally only a concern for fleet customers.”

Source: 2022 owner’s manual.
My 2023 says the same thing. I just went over 2100 miles, which means I'm putting an average of 350 miles per month on it (I live rural and don't do a lot of driving). If I go 4000 miles for my first oil change, I have until at least the end of February.
 

Tulecreeper

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Emphasis added:
“A long break-in period is not required for the engine and drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.

Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km). After the initial 60 miles (100 km), speeds up to 50 or 55 mph (80 or 90 km/h) are desirable.

While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in. Wide-open throttle acceleration in low gear can be detrimental and should be avoided.

The engine oil installed in the engine at the factory is a high-quality energy conserving type lubricant. Oil changes should be consistent with anticipated climate conditions under which vehicle operations will occur. For the recommended viscosity and quality grades "⇨ENGINE FLUIDS AND LUBRICANTS".”
And mine says 0W-40...period. Not even a suggestion of another weight or grade.
 

mtnrider

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Fake news, and salesman are clueless.

.
 

ramffml

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Yep! My bad. Not that it makes much of a difference; I'll keep doing 10K.
The tick (other than the one in some owners' heads) is due to poor metallurgic, not to lack of magic oil choice.

There are multiple credible theories. But Ram has taken steps to fix this by making the needle bearings bigger but using less of them. Possibly dirty oil can contribute to lifter failure by taking out the needle bearings.

You probably don't want to run long oil changes on the hemis, it's just not worth the risk.

Also "magic oil" is the wrong mindset, there is cheap oil and high quality oil, and yes the high quality oil is loaded with AW additives and performs way better at cleaning than the oil you find off the shelf at walmart.

There is also no need for insults.
 

Riccochet

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No such thing as "break in oil" in modern vehicle engines. They put in the same PUP 0W40 that the dealer will use for an oil change.

These engines break in slowly over 20-30k miles. Get the oil changed every 5-7k and don't worry about it.
 

Overlander

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FWIW, I did my first oil change at 1,000 miles. My reasoning was to remove any 'fines' from the manufacturing process. True, this should be captured by the filter and the magnet. I just felt better about getting the original fluid replaced early.

As far as break-in, you also want to run her hard after your initial break in period to seat the rings. CNC manufacturing has greatly reduced the tolerance of engine components but I still believe that high pressures from WOT climbs are what truly gets them to seat into the liners.
 

ramsare4real

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Possibly dirty oil can contribute to lifter failure by taking out the needle bearings.
That's a theory I happen to agree with. Plenty of "forensic analyses" out there point to the needle bearings going first.

high quality oil is loaded with AW additives and performs way better at cleaning than the oil you find off the shelf at Walmart.
There aren't many boutique oils out there - HPL? - "better" than M1 0W-40, readily available at Walmart and cheap for what it is. Also, many more A40, MB 229.52, 504/507, etc., all with plenty of AW, dispersants and more important - tougher approvals to meet than the lousy ILSAC/MS-6395 are the W shelves. I don't have any problems running 10K with any of those. And you wouldn't either. My previous post was aimed at the mentality of band-aid oil against poor metalurgic.
 

ramffml

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That's a theory I happen to agree with. Plenty of "forensic analyses" out there point to the needle bearings going first.


There aren't many boutique oils out there - HPL? - "better" than M1 0W-40, readily available at Walmart and cheap for what it is. Also, many more A40, MB 229.52, 504/507, etc., all with plenty of AW, dispersants and more important - tougher approvals to meet than the lousy ILSAC/MS-6395 are the W shelves. I don't have any problems running 10K with any of those. And you wouldn't either. My previous post was aimed at the mentality of band-aid oil against poor metalurgic.

Actually I do have a problem running 10k intervals, I wouldn't do that with the hemi (and other engines like the pentastar 3.6 or the Ford 7.3) on any oil. Currently running HPL at about 6k to 7k intervals (I change in the spring and autumn which works nicely to fit those intervals). Also nothing wrong with trying to stave off lifter failure with different oil. If I can run two oils, one makes my truck tick and the other doesn't, why would one choose the ticky oil? Thankfully my truck never ticked but it does sound less clattery on different oils (and heavier weights).
 

ramsare4real

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If I can run two oils, one makes my truck tick and the other doesn't, why would one choose the ticky oil? Thankfully my truck never ticked but it does sound less clattery on different oils (and heavier weights).
Ticking and Cam L/F are not a harmonious whole. And kudos on the HPL; one of the best out there. If not...
 
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Mike Wenrich

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To answer the question of what I am driving, it would be a list. But I just bought the 6.4 two days ago and I will update as soon as I figure out how to do that. Been back to school learning this new truck. So I now have the 04.5 diesel and the 2023 6.4. I just went thru the disconnect seat belt chimes and that worked. At least so far driving around the property. Working next on getting the rear tire pressure down before CA roads and my back send me to ER.
 

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That's a theory I happen to agree with. Plenty of "forensic analyses" out there point to the needle bearings going first.

The bearings go due to lack of oiling at idle. 3rd gen Hemi's have a very shallow lifter angle. Such that oil run down from the head never makes it to the roller. It falls off before reaching the roller. The only way the roller and cam lobes are lubricated is via crank sling. Now, the other important factor here is that on the 3rd gen Hemi's they increase the cam to crank distance and put a oil passage directly between the two. At idle there isn't enough sling to get oil up to the lobes and rollers.

This is why it's important to use a high moly oil in the Hemi. Moly bonds with the metal providing lubrication during dry starts and idling. Dirty oil really doesn't matter, as you're not depleting the moly content of the oil over it's life.

It's also important to not let these engines idle for extended periods. Start them and get moving.

Uncle Tony's Garage on YouTube has a great video explaining the lifter angle and oiling issues.
 

Wild one

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The bearings go due to lack of oiling at idle. 3rd gen Hemi's have a very shallow lifter angle. Such that oil run down from the head never makes it to the roller. It falls off before reaching the roller. The only way the roller and cam lobes are lubricated is via crank sling. Now, the other important factor here is that on the 3rd gen Hemi's they increase the cam to crank distance and put a oil passage directly between the two. At idle there isn't enough sling to get oil up to the lobes and rollers.

This is why it's important to use a high moly oil in the Hemi. Moly bonds with the metal providing lubrication during dry starts and idling. Dirty oil really doesn't matter, as you're not depleting the moly content of the oil over it's life.

It's also important to not let these engines idle for extended periods. Start them and get moving.

Uncle Tony's Garage on YouTube has a great video explaining the lifter angle and oiling issues.
When they moved the cam up farther in the block to accomodate the oil passage for the VVT is when the cam/lifter issues started to rear it's ugly head,as you stated it's because less oil off the crank actually hits the cam lobes to lube them,#1 reason i'm a proponent for upping the idle rpm,if you're going to tune the engine.Lately everybody is adding the Hellcat oil pump ,thinking it's a cure all,and i don't think it really is the cure all,as it still doesn't promote more oil being slung off the crank onto the cam
 

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When they moved the cam up farther in the block to accomodate the oil passage for the VVT is when the cam/lifter issues started to rear it's ugly head,as you stated it's because less oil off the crank actually hits the cam lobes to lube them,#1 reason i'm a proponent for upping the idle rpm,if you're going to tune the engine.Lately everybody is adding the Hellcat oil pump ,thinking it's a cure all,and i don't think it really is the cure all,as it still doesn't promote more oil being slung off the crank onto the cam
Yeah more pump pressure isn't going to help. A set of Johnson axle oiling lifters is really the solution as they're pass through and don't rely on run down.
 

ramffml

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I don't subscribe to UT's theory, and it has been debunked countless times. The lifters are fed pressurized oil, and don't need splash from the crank. And keep in mind that if it was an oil flow issue then ALL lifters in an engine should more or less be in an equal state. Instead we find 1 or 2 fully trashed lifters and the other 15+ in perfect condition. That IMHO very clearly points to a materials/hardening/dirty oil issue which affects individual lifters.
 

Wild one

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I don't subscribe to UT's theory, and it has been debunked countless times. The lifters are fed pressurized oil, and don't need splash from the crank. And keep in mind that if it was an oil flow issue then ALL lifters in an engine should more or less be in an equal state. Instead we find 1 or 2 fully trashed lifters and the other 15+ in perfect condition. That IMHO very clearly points to a materials/hardening/dirty oil issue which affects individual lifters.
No pressurized oil to the cam lobes or the roller bearings in the lifters roller wheel,only thing that lubes them is crank splash
 

Wild one

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Yeah more pump pressure isn't going to help. A set of Johnson axle oiling lifters is really the solution as they're pass through and don't rely on run down.
If you want to spring for the high priced Johnsons,then the Hellcat pump is a good addition,as they bleed off pressure in the oiling system,and the bigger pump helps compensate for that issue with it's higher volume of oil.
 

ramffml

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No pressurized oil to the cam lobes or the roller bearings in the lifters roller wheel,only thing that lubes them is crank splash

Overkill on bitog explains it differently:

Also, I have a really hard time accepting the splash theory. Because that would mean the hemi engineers never gave any thought to it, or testing, or validation etc, and that's a very large leap. I mean they stuck that big part of the block in the way, do we really think they never gave that a thought that splash (if it was needed) might not be getting there?

Basically if you subscribe to that theory, we're suggesting the engineeers are completely stupid, and I can't do that. And again, we have 14+ lifters in perfect condition after 150k - 200k miles. Why aren't they all run down? Splash theory makes 0 sense to me.
 
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Riccochet

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The enginerds probably didn't care enough. 60k miles is all they care about. Or rather, that's all the bean counters care about. The stock lifters do not pass through oil to the rollers and cam lobes. I've torn apart numerous eagle Hemi's. The only way those rollers and lobes are lubricated is via crank sling.

The oil that goes in to the lifter is to pressurize the lifter. It's what provides the hydraulic pressure to move the rods.
 
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