Does A New 6.4 Have Special break in Oil?

[Wild one]

Overkill on bitog explains it differently:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2021-ram-1500-5-7-hemi-pp-5w-20-5k-mi.369333/page-3#post-6504590

Also, I have a really hard time accepting the splash theory. Because that would mean the hemi engineers never gave any thought to it, or testing, or validation etc, and that's a very large leap. I mean they stuck that big part of the block in the way, do we really think they never gave that a thought that splash (if it was needed) might not be getting there?

Basically if you subscribe to that theory, we're suggesting the engineeers are completely stupid, and I can't do that. And again, we have 14+ lifters in perfect condition after 150k - 200k miles. Why aren't they all run down? Splash theory makes 0 sense to me.

V8 cams have been lubed by splash lubrication pretty well since the day of inception,and the Hemi is no differant.The leakage past the lifter bore is not enough to lubricate the cam lobe or the wheel,with-out some extra help from the oil flung off the crank. The cam/lifter issue didn't rear it's head till they moved the cam tunnel up,and blocked alot of the crank splash with the tunnel for the VVT system,which should lead you to the idea the cam lobe and roller are still relying on splash lubrication to maintain an oil barrier on the face of the lobe and roller. If your theory worked,after they increased the bearing diameter in the roller,there should be no failures,but there's still a pile of 16+ trucks and cars chewing up cams. Up till 08 lifter failure was basically unheard of,that's when the cam tunnel was moved up,and the VVT passage was added,and that's when the cams and lifters started going south.Only change was the fact the cam now gets less crank splash .The cams metalurgy didn't change when they went to the VVT system,but cam failures went through the roof.

 

[ramsare4real]

This is why it's important to use a high moly oil in the Hemi

Molly? Never heard of her.

Uncle Tony's Garage on YouTube has a great video explaining the lifter angle and oiling issues.

Uncle Tony's asinine video has been shreded into pieces many times online. Use Google.

 

[pacofortacos]

How do you explain the LS failures or the 3.6 pentastar lifter failures? While the 3.6 failures aren't as common, they still do have lifter failure.

I personally think it is the inferior oil thrust upon us by the gov to extend cat converter life - while the oil is better than past oils in some (many) ways, certain additives have been radically cut. IMO those additives help with certain engine designs over other designs.

 

[ramffml]

V8 cams have been lubed by splash lubrication pretty well since the day of inception,and the Hemi is no differant.The leakage past the lifter bore is not enough to lubricate the cam lobe or the wheel,with-out some extra help from the oil flung off the crank. The cam/lifter issue didn't rear it's head till they moved the cam tunnel up,and blocked alot of the crank splash with the tunnel for the VVT system,which should lead you to the idea the cam lobe and roller are still relying on splash lubrication to maintain an oil barrier on the face of the lobe and roller. If your theory worked,after they increased the bearing diameter in the roller,there should be no failures,but there's still a pile of 16+ trucks and cars chewing up cams. Up till 08 lifter failure was basically unheard of,that's when the cam tunnel was moved up,and the VVT passage was added,and that's when the cams and lifters started going south.Only change was the fact the cam now gets less crank splash .The cams metalurgy didn't change when they went to the VVT system,but cam failures went through the roof.

Well, correlation is not equal to causation. We also see a pretty big dip in reported failures for model years > 2016, and we have the fact that FCA has revised the lifters once or twice meaning they know the cause of the failure is the needle bearings but they wouldn't revise that part if it was a block design flaw.

Combine that with the pentastar lifter failures, the GM v8 lifter failures, and the Ford 7.3 lifter/cam failures and I think we get a different picture of what is going on.

Anyway, we've argued this extensively on this forum so I suspect our minds are made up at this point lol.

 

[ramsare4real]

personally think it is the inferior oil thrust upon us by the gov to extend cat converter life

I'm done with you.

 

[Tulecreeper]

This is directly out of the manual for my 2023 RAM 2500:

(Page 511) Engine Oil: We recommend using MOPAR API Certified SAE 0W-40 Full Synthetic Engine Oil which meets the requirements of the manufacturer Material Standard MS-A0921. Equivalent full synthetic SAE 0W-40 engine oil can be used but must have the API Donut trademark > page 441. <<MS-A0921 is the new number for MS-12633>>

(Page 441) The API Donut trademark certifies 0W-40 and 5W-40 engine oil.

Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 0W-40, Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic 0W-40, and Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0W-40 European Car Formula all have the API Donut trademark on the back. I am quite sure there are several others. RAM is not going to void anyone's warranty because they didn't use PuP oil. As long as it's the correct weight and has the API Donut certification on the back you're good to go. Now, as for which one of those oils works best in your particular RAM truck, that's an experiment you'll have to go through.

 

[lgjhn]

The factory fill is PUP.
I had em change the oil/filter at 1000 miles with fresh PUP/Mopar filter as the truck was already 9 months old (see post 10 above). I also had em check & top off the differentials, if needed, as I was fixing to tow a light trailer on a 2000+ mile trip.

 

[Dustyroadz]

I personally am not a fan of pure synthetic in the first 5000 miles, actually 10,000 miles with the modern low tension cylinder rings.
Using a blend or better yet just conventional will usually result in a better ring seating.
During break in, it's all about ring seating.

If your still under warranty-BEST one follows the manual(oils-filters).

 

[Dustyroadz]

Just brought home a new 2500, 6.4 yesterday. The salesman who has been selling RAM hemis for over 20 years told me the oil is a special break in oil and should be run for at least 4,000 miles before changing. After that you run what is recommended in the manual. The manual shows the milage change at a bit longer but no mention of "special' oil at the beginning. Some on this forum have suggested changing at 1,000miles. Does anyone know if there is something in the crankcase other than the PUP 0-40 oil? And have a response to his comments? I know salesmen are just that but this discussion was well after the deal was struck. I want to get started right with this engine and need to get a supply of oil and filters since I do my own oil changes to be sure it is the correct oil and the drain plug gets tightened.

Mike:Can you get an oil test sample kit and send your first oil in so we all can get to the truth of this? MUCH appreciate.Thank you...by the way.....best talk to the Service Manager(write his name down and date of conversation with subject) not salesman for tech stuff.
Lost my 2018 engine under warranty -I recorded all conversations on paper -after 8 months, dealership bought back my truck for little over what I paid.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Just brought home a new 2500, 6.4 yesterday. The salesman who has been selling RAM hemis for over 20 years told me the oil is a special break in oil and should be run for at least 4,000 miles before changing. After that you run what is recommended in the manual. The manual shows the milage change at a bit longer but no mention of "special' oil at the beginning. Some on this forum have suggested changing at 1,000miles. Does anyone know if there is something in the crankcase other than the PUP 0-40 oil? And have a response to his comments? I know salesmen are just that but this discussion was well after the deal was struck. I want to get started right with this engine and need to get a supply of oil and filters since I do my own oil changes to be sure it is the correct oil and the drain plug gets tightened.

I'd be remiss to call out the salesman. He is likely ignorant of current engine technology. In today's world of hypereutectic pistons with chrome moly/ low tension rings, there is absolutely NO reason at all to consider factory oil as "break-in" oil. These pistons are high in silicon content, thus do not expand/contract as in old design pistons did. Chrome moly rings have way less friction and are mated to much finer cylinder wall finish from factory.

If I were to buy a new vehicle, I'd change the oil the first time at 5000 miles and keep that interval moving forward. This has worked on the new cars I HAVE bought, the last was a 2008 F-150 Lariat with the 5.4 3-valve that everyone curses. That truck went 200,000 trouble free, engine wise.

The debate about oil brand, weight, additives, etc. rages on hotly, So I won't go there.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

I can research how to get a sample kit and don't mind doing that but it might be premature at this point. I'm at 1700 miles and have not driven much since the dealer put the 1 1/2 quarts in to top off the oil. I want to get a few more miles on it and see if it's still using the stuff like a drunkin' fool. And getting a sample is going to require me to pull the plug to collect so would want to do that when I have a supply of correct oil in my shop. I can imagine I will lose a quart just doing that. Or maybe just collect it from the filter and put a new one on.

And...if it is using oil then I will likely just go to the dealer for the first oil change to document it. Either way I will update this post.

 

[06 Dodge]

I can research how to get a sample kit and don't mind doing that but it might be premature at this point. I'm at 1700 miles and have not driven much since the dealer put the 1 1/2 quarts in to top off the oil. I want to get a few more miles on it and see if it's still using the stuff like a drunkin' fool. And getting a sample is going to require me to pull the plug to collect so would want to do that when I have a supply of correct oil in my shop. I can imagine I will lose a quart just doing that. Or maybe just collect it from the filter and put a new one on.

And...if it is using oil then I will likely just go to the dealer for the first oil change to document it. Either way I will update this post.

Why not just buy one of theses oil sample pumps they only cost $28.90, I just bought on and got free shipping, btw I am not a current member: https://www.amsoil.com/p/oil-analysis-pump-g1206/?code=G1206-EA

 

[quickster2]

There is no break in oil in these engines. Factory fill was PP in 2015. Not sure about current day. The only model getting PUP at factory fill was the Viper which ended production in August of 2017.

 

[quickster2]

The factory fill is PUP.
I had em change the oil/filter at 1000 miles with fresh PUP/Mopar filter as the truck was already 9 months old (see post 10 above). I also had em check & top off the differentials, if needed, as I was fixing to tow a light trailer on a 2000+ mile trip.

What was the P/N of the oil on the invoice? Was it the Mopar oil or an actual PUP jug? TIA

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Looked on line at the kit and that appears pretty simple. Did not know about those. But I had no need to know either. Until maybe now. I will be putting some miles on the engine in the next couple weeks and be able to see if the oil is still going down. I sure hope the rings broke in and seated correctly. But as others have said they might be doing that for many, many miles.

 

[Wild one]

Looked on line at the kit and that appears pretty simple. Did not know about those. But I had no need to know either. Until maybe now. I will be putting some miles on the engine in the next couple weeks and be able to see if the oil is still going down. I sure hope the rings broke in and seated correctly. But as others have said they might be doing that for many, many miles.

Drive it like you stole it for a couple days.The worst thing you can do to a hemi is baby it

 

[Mike Wenrich]

That has been mentioned and is likely good advice but.....The computer knows how I am driving and I don't want to give RAM a reason to deny repairing it if an issue exists. I broke it in as the manual describes and gave it some "spirited" acceleration after about 400 miles. Since then I have had occasions to pass vehicles in the mountains where I live and use high rpm to do so. The truck runs great and has high performance so I'm hoping it's just break in that is/was using oil.

 

[airrecon]

Just brought home a new 2500, 6.4 yesterday. The salesman who has been selling RAM hemis for over 20 years told me the oil is a special break in oil and should be run for at least 4,000 miles before changing. After that you run what is recommended in the manual. The manual shows the milage change at a bit longer but no mention of "special' oil at the beginning. Some on this forum have suggested changing at 1,000miles. Does anyone know if there is something in the crankcase other than the PUP 0-40 oil? And have a response to his comments? I know salesmen are just that but this discussion was well after the deal was struck. I want to get started right with this engine and need to get a supply of oil and filters since I do my own oil changes to be sure it is the correct oil and the drain plug gets tightened.

It's very simple to have an engine last many miles. . Do what eh owners manual says. NO ONE knows better, but many think they do. Driving MOPARS (many of therm) for many years and no break-in oil. Most do have a mileage brea-in required. Not sure if either of these fits your engine. Read the book.

 

[airrecon]

Drive it like you stole it for a couple days.The worst thing you can do to a hemi is baby it

I thought this idea went away many years ago.

 

[Wild one]

I thought this idea went away many years ago.

Even the manual tells you to be a bit aggressive with the skinny pedal.The hemi's oiling system is marginal at best,and driving one like Grandma,is about the worst thing you can do to them.My truck has over 600 nitrous drag strip passes and 70,000 fairly spirited street miles,and it still pumps between 215 and 218 on all 8 cylinders,so driving them hard doesn't seem to hurt them,the ones that seem to have issues are the ones that lead a babied life.
My truck hit the dragstrip when it had less then 250 miles on it,bought it on a Wed,drove it home,and on Friday it was on the dragstrip seeing 6,000 rpm shifts,the day it came home,i ran into a 5.0 Mustang and we went from a light 3 times,as the truck took his Mustang ,and he couldn't believe it,so it took 3 runs before he'd believe a truck could take his Stang,and it had just over a 100 miles on it at that time,lol