Hemi Time Bomb

[Burla]

Lack of oil doesn't mean the same thing as lack of additives. Most EP additives work when the base oil isn't there, that is the point. The main one being molybdenum, it is what the oil manufacturers use for dry starts, it is also something fca put in their srt oil 4 times average, I'm guessing they had good reason to do so. Moly has 3 sulfur molecules that helps them form a plate, a plate that if you believe ram forum can help kill most ticks. 90% success rate and helping tick, there is no reason to not try some. 6 bucks for lubegard 10 ounces, 10 bucks for 15 ounces, or a little more for a change of redline 5w30. There just aren't too many people around ram forum not happy as a pig in **** that they found this tick killing option.

Moly Basics

This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.

anyhow, good luck OP

 

[Larry Wise]

I have the same problem and what i've gathered so far is that I need to get better lifters, delete MDS, and add an extra quart of oil? (not on my truck by the way)

 

[03marauderman]

As I understand it, the majority of the failures of police cars are the long idles...so I'm thinking oil splash has something to do with it...but the real rub here is my 2000 Ram with the 5.2 with 160k miles never had any mechanical issues other than the transmission....I get that,... a rebuilt transmission & your good to go...There is no magical chemistry, & holding your breath with oil....A Wal-Mart oil change is fully acceptable. I gotta say, there is something about dealer service writers, they gloss over any issue you present to them. When I first became aware of my situstion I went straight to the dealer, & their reaaction was as concerning as a loose screw...He told me in 16 years he only saw two engine failures....They can lie better than a car salesman....'Burla' has made some good points, now it's up to me to get with the program as others did, to try to prevent the inevitable...

 

[Musky Mike]

So it looks like FCA did change the lifter.

 

[pacofortacos]

As I understand it, the majority of the failures of police cars are the long idles...so I'm thinking oil splash has something to do with it...but the real rub here is my 2000 Ram with the 5.2 with 160k miles never had any mechanical issues other than the transmission....I get that,... a rebuilt transmission & your good to go...There is no magical chemistry, & holding your breath with oil....A Wal-Mart oil change is fully acceptable. I gotta say, there is something about dealer service writers, they gloss over any issue you present to them. When I first became aware of my situstion I went straight to the dealer, & their reaaction was as concerning as a loose screw...He told me in 16 years he only saw two engine failures....They can lie better than a car salesman....'Burla' has made some good points, now it's up to me to get with the program as others did, to try to prevent the inevitable...

My 2001 5.9 dakota had the heads fail. Not crack, well they did crack, but catastrophic valve seat failure on several exhaust valve seats that required cylinder head replacement.

 

[Wizard]

I'm sure this topic has been addressed, but I just became aware of this Hemi disaster. I have a 2016 Ram 1500 with 16k miles...I only use it for recreational purposes & use my 2000 5.2 Ram for a daily driver...If the 16 Ram sits for a period of about 2-3 weeks I get a bad lifter noise at start for about 3-5 minutes at idle, then it goes away...Using the truck daily is fine no noise.... Now I find out that the design of the engine is the cause starving the cam & lifters of oil. Something about a cast baffle part of the block preventing the splash of oil to the cam....I also heard the dealers are plagued with failing Hemi's with both cars & trucks. Disappointment is an understatement...My question....What are other members experiencing? Is Chrysler doing anythng about it?...Would greatly appreciate any input....Thanks.....

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Add hydraulic lifter additive from LiquiMoly and you're gonna be fine. Google Liqui Moly LM20004

 

[Topflitegraphics]

My 2018 has 125K miles on it so far and not a single issue. My previous Hemi truck was a '06 Mega Cab with 197K miles on it when it dropped a valve. Before that had another '06 Quad Cab on which I put 155K miles on before trading it in - also never a single issue.

As far as the cop cars go, besides idling for long periods of time, Police Officers are generally not too kind to their cars. A FHP friend of mine has destroyed 4 Chargers himself - all of which were after extended periods of 140mph+ runs - one caught fire due to being pulled over on the turnpike in long dry grass after a chase (the red hot cats ignited the grass).

 

[sam darakjy]

Had 2017 1500 5.7 Hemi with 32k and no problems running Mobile 1. Traded in on 2018 2500 6.4 Hemi with 20k using Mobile 1 and no problems again. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[dbc105]

Years ago an editor for MOPAR ACTION wrote many articles on cars and engines of the time. He was back then what we called a MOPAR GURU. He had one cool article on building a 470 from a 400 and telling everyone it was a 383, good stuff. He now has a website and UTube channel, Uncle Tonys Garage, and he addressed this very thing Hemi Cam Issue a few months ago. Here is a link:

 

[scott lass 18]

well my one side was fuel injector and exhaust was bad was replace ! but now on other side a bad tick a round around feel at dealer we will see what happens ! it so sad they just don't say yes bad replace engine for us ! not sure what next new car we will buy !

 

[Burla]

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Add hydraulic lifter additive from LiquiMoly and you're gonna be fine. Google Liqui Moly LM20004

The mos2 additive is an older technology, it still is effective but at what cost? What does it do to your oil when it is out of suspension? Here was one guy's youtube test lubegard versus mos2, not all moly additives are the same. I would be inclined to try the newer oil soluble moly additives before trying mos2, just because of the video's below. mos2 is still a tool worth having in the tool box, but personally I'd use the sharper tool first.

 

[Wizard]

The mos2 additive is an older technology, it still is effective but at what cost? What does it do to your oil when it is out of suspension? Here was one guy's youtube test lubegard versus mos2, not all moly additives are the same. I would be inclined to try the newer oil soluble moly additives before trying mos2, just because of the video's below. mos2 is still a tool worth having in the tool box, but personally I'd use the sharper tool first.

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Did you look at the product or just assuming that it is MoS2?

 

[Burla]

I assume all of the liqui moly from their ancient lineup uses the old technology, their molygen uses modern technology. Forgive me if I am wrong, I am only human, what do you say is the effective additive in that bottle, thanks Burla...

There is no mos2 in there?

 

[RAMbunctious-II]

I have a 2015 Laramie 4x4 crew. This is my 3rd 5.7 Hemi . I get a tick for about 3-5 seconds when I start it up after its been sitting over night. I don't notice it when sitting short periods.

 

[CoastyAV8R]

I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w-30 with a dose of Moly B and a Wix oil filter with the anti drain back valve. Change the oil @ 5000 miles and I never leave it idling, I don't do that with anything I own. When I bought it with 30000 miles on it I could hear a tick at start up if it sat a day or two. Since I started my oil routine it can sit a week with no tick and I'm at 43000 miles now.

The Uncle Tony video was pretty interesting and a bit unnerving. It seems the design of the block prevents a healthy amount of oil slinging in the cam/lifter area as in most engine designs. This explains why idling is so hard on these engines, low rpm means less oil slinging and really emphasizes using a quality of oil with high moly as a way to help extend the life of these motors.

 

[Killface3]

I did the mds delete on my 12' Express this summer although I didn't have the tick. I did it for performance. The "Hellcat" lifters are actually the same part number as ANY other lifters that are installed in non-mds Hemi's from the factory. Chrysler/Mopar and parts stores are using the "Hellcat"name to sell them at a premium price. They're great lifters. They do the job.

 

[03marauderman]

Oh boy really confused now...Is it the lifters? or the design of the block starving the cam of oil?......'All lifters are created equal' - so hellcat is hype?...I bought on to the Red Line oil & RP filters...as band aid, not the cure...but still not getting that year after year FCA has not redesigned the engine & continues to produce an inferior product....& yes inferior, very close to being called a piece of ----.......

 

[Musky Mike]

Delete.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

FWIW I have had 6 of the 5.7 hemis. I have always ran Valvoline oil in them until my 2019 1500. Have not had the hemi tick in any of them until my 19. There is a new oil change shop that is handy and it is a Mobil 1 shop, did not carry Valvoline. So thought I would give it a try. Heard the tick on the first cold start. Ran it about 5 days, same thing every start, changed the Mobil 1 out to Valvoline full synthetic and the hemi tick was gone.

The only other issue I had was on my 2015 the exhaust studs broke at 92,000 miles. Took it in and they fixed them under warranty.

Now have a 6.7 and hope it treats me as good as the hemis did.

 

[TomB 1269]

From everything I have read and seen it is roller bearing failure that causes the roller to drop on to the roller axle pin. That in turn cause the lift to drag more verse roll as designed as well as the sides of the lifter supporting the roller axle to contact the cam. This in turn adds debris that cause the roll to lockup exacerbating the issue.

As for the startup lifter tick it is unnerving and I feel leads to additional metal wear. As our motors have much tighter tolerances then past versions that this wear exacerbated the problem. However the startup lifter tick is due to the oil system design as explained in a video posted on this forum. The lifter cup at the push rod is oiled via the push rod and therefore is one of the last parts of the engine to obtain oil on startup. It also stated that the 6.4 oil requirements were for a 0-40. I can see how a 0-20 or 30 could be helpful in this scenario as the oil at startup is thinner then a 5W-20 or 30, and therefore gets to the pushrod and lifter quicker.

Uncle Tony's explanation of the camshaft sitting higher is interesting. And I would agree it decreases the amount of oil splash received particularly at idle, but everything I have seen posted with respect to cam / lifter failure has been the result of failed roller bearings on the lifter. Additional oil splashed on the cam or even completely bathing the cam in oil would only delay the inevitable failure and resulting cam damage with respect to roller bearing failure in the lifter.

From everything I have seen and read, my take away has been keep the oil clean and change the filter as required. I am not a fan of these 10k mile oil changes and i change mine every 6 months regardless of mileage (note: at best 6 months will only get 6000 miles, but is usually under 5000 closer to 4000), and I will continue to do so. As for the occasional lifter tick on startup I get UI will continue to monitor it and will address it with my dealer when i get a better handle on how to reproduce it for them without question. I'm getting close to that point.