Looking at our 1st TT

[Rod H]

Ok so we're looking into our first TT and we think we've narrowed it down to three. Looking for some feedback and suggestions. Before I list those here are some deets on the truck.

According to VIN # my trucks payload and tow cap are:

1298#
8198#

It's a 2016 1500 Laramie w/ 3.21 gear. Not the best for towing but capable.

We're a family of three ( My wife and I, and our 17yr son ).

We intend to actually travel with this, not just buy and park - I know this can make a difference.

I'll definitely invest in WDH/sway control regardless of TT purchased.

With all the above known here are three models we're considering...

Forest River Salem 179DBK - 502# tongue weight / 4865# GVWR

Grand Designs Imagine XLS 17MKE - 480# tw / 6395# GVWR

Cougar 22MLS - 645# tw / 7200# GVWR

Each has it's +s and -s for us. Any and all input is requested, good, bad, or otherwise.

Tx in advance-

 

[Rod H]

Ok so we're looking into our first TT and we think we've narrowed it down to three. Looking for some feedback and suggestions. Before I list those here are some deets on the truck.

According to VIN # my trucks payload and tow cap are:

1298#
8198#

It's a 2016 1500 Laramie w/ 3.21 gear. Not the best for towing but capable.

We're a family of three ( My wife and I, and our 17yr son ).

We intend to actually travel with this, not just buy and park - I know this can make a difference.

I'll definitely invest in WDH/sway control regardless of TT purchased.

With all the above known here are three models we're considering...

Forest River Salem 179DBK - 502# tongue weight / 4865# GVWR

Grand Designs Imagine XLS 17MKE - 480# tw / 6395# GVWR

Cougar 22MLS - 645# tw / 7200# GVWR

Each has it's +s and -s for us. Any and all input is requested, good, bad, or otherwise.

Tx in advance-

We have a 2017 4 wheel drive with 5.7 and 321 gear. Just purchased a Imagine xls 22rbe and waiting for the weather to warm up to take it out. It towed good from the dealer to our storage. Happy Camping

 

[Doug Ram]

This is why I don't tow with a half ton. I know the fellow probably did a number of things wrong, but maybe the outcome would have been different with a 3/4 or 1 ton?
View attachment 239905

Isn't that an SUV, and a Ford Exploder at that?? I wouldn't tow a small boat with one of those. That is NOT a half ton. Its more like a quarter ton. And a tippy one at that, although I am shocked that the Exploder isn't on its side too.

 

[Milepost56]

We pull with a 2016 Bighorn with a 3.23 rear end. Our trailer weighed on a certified scale loaded at 5500lbs. We pull with a WDH and have zero problems albeit we have to put a little foot in to it occasionally on steep grades through the smokies. With a WDH and TT package and a OEM brake controller which ties in to your computer in the truck you should be fine!

 

[grumpyb]

10 ply tires is one of the biggest helps in trailer towing and 1500 series trucks don't have them.

 

[VernDiesel]

Regal You can tow any of the three trailers you picked safely and comfortably with your truck. You are on the right track with getting a WDH with built in sway control to safely set up your load and stop any sway before it would start. Additionally quality air bags like the Timbergroves or even the Sumo neoprene springs provide support for better ride & suspension control especially over rough road. Not that they would be required here but they make the package and experience better even safer. $379 or $249.

I have a transport business and transport TTs for the Mfgrs with a 14 Ram Ecodiesel. Plants to dealerships sometimes dealerships to plants sometimes dealerships to customers. Seven years 775,000 miles 12 months a year 47 of the 48 continental states. No accidents many scale houses no tickets or fines.


For safety and stability, set up IE axles and tongue weight is key and primary.


Practically speaking payload is at best with CVWR a very distant 2nd even though it is generally the first number exceeded and unfortunately the focus of so many. Not that a person should run grossly over payload that is not what I am saying. I am saying keep the main thing (safety & stability) the main thing, focus on safe set up. When you see TT accidents its root cause is almost always a combination of poor setup and going too fast for the conditions. Never have I seen it from being over payload. In practicality the payload number has largely become CYA for the Mfgr.

So how do you concretely set up your truck and trailer for stability ie safety. First weigh just your truck. You need the steer axle weight and the drive axle weight and naturally together they provide the total weight. CAT scales weigh all three axles independently at one time to see what the eyeball or measurement cannot. That is steer axle, drive axle, and trailer axles. These are the things DOT and scales houses are concerned with FOR safety both for handling and stopping. Gross vehicle weight aside from this but not beyond the combination of these is for determining what they should pay for road use for the damage and wear they put on it. For pick ups etc and travel trailers WDH measurements alone are fine when you are not close to maximums and just want to get it within the zone so to speak. CAT has a free app with GPS locator you can likely find one close to you or on route to a camping destination. Often it's like $12 for the initial weigh $2 per additional so for less the $20 you can set up your rig for maximum stability & safety.

For estimates you can take the dry weight of your TT and add 1,000 pounds as thats most common as to an actual wet weight. Batteries propane minimal water & supplies. For example for your truck lets say your steer is 3,200 and your drive 2,500 with you in it and lets say you load your heaviest trailer to its max GVWR of 7,200.

Ok if you put wife & son in the cab and the load the bed of your truck totaling 500 pounds and she loads the front of the TT again to its gvwr no WDH or loading adjustments. TT tongue weight on its own scale not overloaded might be 1080 or 15%. You roll on CAT scale front of the truck high back of the truck low and it would show something like this.

2900 steer
4380 drive
7280 total

6120 trailer
13400 CVW

This leaves you 380 pounds over GVWR and far worse a reduced steer weight, an over the axle drive weight, and tongue weight at the top of recommended. This might not be far enough off to be white knuckle but it would not be stable or relaxing to drive. Swerve around someone pulling out in front of you and you may end up backwards upside down in the ditch. Jam the brakes and find their is too little weight on the steers and she wants to slide instead of stopping in the distance it should. Passing semi truck bow wave makes your truck and trailer wiggle like an accordian.

Now your experienced friend is there and helps you redistribute your weight. He shoves stuff tight to the cab. Repositions some of the camper loading from the nose to over the axles. Then adjusts your WDH and re weights. Likely he has to adjust the WDH more than once as its the first time and dialing the load in so to speak. Finally he ends up with

3200 steer
3860 drive
7060 total

6340 trailer
13400 CVW

This adjustment still leaves it 160 pounds or 2% over GVWR but more importantly it replaced unloaded steer weight for stability and stopping ability. It also brought his drive axle weight below max and again improved stability together helping restore COG center of gravity and to suspension design. The numbers would be cleaner so to speak if we didn't add passengers or gear to the truck. Then we would see tongue weight came down from 1080 or 15% to 860 or 12.0%. Which still comfortably makes for a stable non sway inducing tongue weight for a TT at 65 mph without putting more weight on the truck then necessary. Swerve around someone now and find much better stability. Hit your brakes hard find out it stops in less distance. Semi truck passes close and the bow wave now only pushes you to the side a little with the truck and trailer feeling almost like one solid unit. Now this same truck and trailer can be driven with two fingers instead of two hands.

This is the stuff that should be talked about in these threads IMO. Knowledge & respect for the weight. Max steer axle, drive axle, max receiver, CVWR and yes GVWR. WDH adjusting weight redistribution. Not fear and stacking up weight guesstimates towards some thought to be magical payload sticker number. My 2 cents.

https://timbergroveenterprises.com/old-home

https://www.supersprings.com/shop/ssr-307-47/

 

[Summit1]

Floorplan. First, second, and third priority. You said some traveling is in the plans, not just local. That implies some lengthy stays and long drives. Buying a place to live for a while in based on weight? Don’t do it.

You’re taking a teenager who’s not going to be happy sleeping on a dinette. Get a bunk.
Convertible sleeping that has to be broken down every day gets tiresome. The point of this is do you want to return home from your travels reminiscing about all the great memories or grouchy and desperate to get out of the confines of the trailer?

None of the above is intended to imply we all have the same needs, far from it. Some people take extended trips and live out of cars, Jeeps, and vans. Some need a 45’ bus. What I’m saying is get the trailer you need to suit your family, then do what you have to to tow it. You’re buying the trailer for your family, not for the truck. Trade the truck if it’s not up to it. That’s my .02.

Exactly. We have camped four summers in our current TT and really like it, but decided to upgrade to a 5th Wheel of approximately the same length. That having been said/typed/whatever, length is the least of our concerns. My wife really liked the floor plan of our current V-Lite, but the Grand Design 303RLS that we looked at really grabbed her. Then, we looked at the 337RLS and that blew her away... game over, no contest, but that is her opinion (which I sincereley share). The V-Lite 30WRLIKS will make a great camper for its next owner, and the 337RLS 5th Wheel will (it is hoped) serve us at least as well as did the V-Lite.

One thing I learned many years ago about buying a vehicle (the TT/5th Wheel is a vehicle) is that going cheap and just getting by is a poor choice. If you have to live with something for a few years, do not buy something that you will grow to hate.

Incidentally, we bought the V-Lite several weeks after buying the truck. We knew we would be pulling and maneuvering a relatively heavy trailer, so we (sort of) went into overkill mode, and have no regrets whatsoever. We did not buy for "gas mileage", although the Cummins is pretty impressive in that category as well.

 

[2018 Hemi]

To some of you saying a police offer will just site you for no good reason that’s a bunch of BS. Having been in law enforcement for 30 yrs they don’t just ticket because they like it. Put on your big pantys and say you ****** up!

 

[ramffml]

To some of you saying a police offer will just site you for no good reason that’s a bunch of BS. Having been in law enforcement for 30 yrs they don’t just ticket because they like it. Put on your big pantys and say you ****** up!

Lol. I've seen enough videos of corrupt police officers on Reddit to completely disregard what you said. Most definitely there has been more than one cop who has done just that because he found his particular brand of cheerios too soggy that morning.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Wandering far afield now, but cops are human just like the rest of us.

I’ve been ticketed for things that never happened, and watched officers perjure themselves in court.

I have also been let off with a warning for things I DID do.

I pay attention to weight ratings etc because I’d rather keep the shiny side up. Not because the cops give two cents about recreational vehicle weight. Because mostly they don’t.

 

[dhay13]

I spent some time in law enforcement and can tell you 'most' cops won't pull you over unless it is serious. My step-son is a Cpl detective and has said he won't pull anyone over unless they wreck into his car...lol. Thats a stretch but you get my drift. About the only ones that hard up are the new hires that might be trying to make a name for themselves. And believe me, when they get beat on a ticket they don't like it so most aren't gonna write it unless there is some validity to it.

A police officer isn't likely to be writing tickets for being overloaded. It happens occasionally around here but usually with tractor trailers that were trying to cross a local bridge that had a low weight limit. They used to bring them to the steel mill I worked at and put them on the scales. As far as a pickup truck, I can assure you most would have no clue it was overloaded. When we bought our current boat I was towing it on a 2 hour trip with my 2013 1500. I was about 300 or so pounds over on my towing capacity. PA state police had portable scales set up at a rest stop and I pulled in next to their truck and started talking to the trooper. Told him I wouldn't mind weighing it cause I know I'm pushing my limits but knew they were busy. He looked at my truck and said 'well it handles the weight well'. and told me to be safe as I drove off. We did not weigh it that day.

Now if you are in a major accident with serious injury or worse I would be willing to bet the insurance company will be weighing stuff

 

[SniperDroid]

Just remember folks... Everything works just fine...! Until it doesn't.

 

[Firebird]

Isn't that an SUV, and a Ford Exploder at that?? I wouldn't tow a small boat with one of those. That is NOT a half ton. Its more like a quarter ton. And a tippy one at that, although I am shocked that the Exploder isn't on its side too.

Ford Expedition, I think they are on the half ton chassis?

 

[Toddbigboytruck]

Dude, I’m thinking those folks were NOT trying to scare the OP. I’m thinking thread was un biased and very helpful. With the exception of your post. They weren’t acting in an abundance of caution, it was all really good sound advice, again with the exception of yours.
I’m thinking a dangerous drive with the family could be bad for not only them but for others on the road near them.
Just cuz the truck can do it doesn’t mean it’s safe. Best to go by the numbers. Your advise could end up causing others grief, even injury. IMHO your advice seems to suck and could lead to dangerous condition and injury. Your not considering other drivers, road conditions, vehicle conditions and how they’ll change over time especially when maxed out, wind and what happens when he’s had the trailer over a few years and has filled the cabinets and under bed storage or brings a 4th person on the trip? When giving advice I feel it would be prudent to present it unbiased or biased with the err on caution. Just cuz YOU like driving overloaded and so far have had no adverse actions coming from that does not mean others should listen to your BS. I read all your posts for this thread. Hopefully I never have to drive near you.
The OP was smart in coming here and asking.
By the way if you want to sound more credible you need to proof read your post. Maybe you have a French accent? Talk to text sucks and your posts aren’t in the realm of English. They have to be deciphered,lol.
To the OP. Your questions have been great. The folks on this forum have great advice. IMHO your maxed out with no wiggle room. The weight of the hitch assembly also has to be attributed and the tow bar and hitch attachments have weight ratings that should also be considered.
As you drive and travel and put more wear and tear on your rig because it’s maxed out means conditions could deteriorate over time and when you have to pull off some emergency driving maneuvers you may have that unfortunate and possibly catastrophic event occur at that worst time.
With so much to consider and so much family fun to be had your experience may be a better one with a 3/4 ton truck. You don’t want to end up having a white knuckle experience on the way there just to dread the ride back. Half the fun is getting to your destination.

Well first I am a French Canadian. And French is my language of choice so I do not apologize for google translate is up to your satisfaction. I have been a professional driver for over 30 years driving many different sizes of vehicles. Presenting hotshot with a international 4x4.

 

[Toddbigboytruck]

Isn't that an SUV, and a Ford Exploder at that?? I wouldn't tow a small boat with one of those. That is NOT a half ton. Its more like a quarter ton. And a tippy one at that, although I am shocked that the Exploder isn't on its side too.

We don’t know what happened it could have been anything.

 

[Toddbigboytruck]

Ford Expedition, I think they are on the half ton chassis?

Yes you are correct mt brother just got his 2021 Expedition max platinum and the frame is the same as a f 150. He can tow 9500 lbs.

 

[NewBlackDak]

Well first I am a French Canadian. And French is my language of choice so I do not apologize for google translate is up to your satisfaction. I have been a professional driver for over 30 years driving many different sizes of vehicles. Presenting hotshot with a international 4x4.

Your experience does not apply to every Joe looking at their first trailer purchase. Most of them have never towed anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tron67j]

The payload and GAWR stickers provide data that results from extensive engineering. Transfer of weight while in motion, the center of mass, and the like are all studied by engineers who have in-depth knowledge of every aspect of the truck. They apply Newton's and other applicable laws, complex physics computations, and develop formulas that provide methods to account options and trim packages in the numbers that appear on your door. Exceeding these numbers WILL cause unexpected handling characteristics to manifest and premature wear/failure of components. The charts found online are for the very base (Tradesman) model and trims like Power Wagons severely reduce towing and payload capacity, by half in that trim's case.

This is not to scare people, the engineers do all the hard work and the public just has to do some math. It is actually a very simple and straightforward concept, like don't put diesel in a gas engine tank. What makes it complicated is when anyone tries to justify towing anything without having the necessary data and instead substitute their own experience as an analog. EXACT numbers of a specific truck fully loaded (i.e. people) including hitch and bars, and EXACT weight of trailer fully loaded, including tongue weight must be gotten through a scale system. That data gets incorporated into truck maximum weight calculations. To the OP and the three trailer options, all of us can only make assumptions in some areas, but to state that his truck can safely pull any of those trailers is patently false. First, he needs his truck's fully loaded numbers. Then the weight of his gear/clothing/supplies. Then take each trailer and have enough people get in the trailer to approximate the weight and distribution impacts and do this while a scale is supporting the tongue. While not 100% exact, it can quickly exclude trailers.

 

[aepowell]

We pull with a 2016 Bighorn with a 3.23 rear end. Our trailer weighed on a certified scale loaded at 5500lbs. We pull with a WDH and have zero problems albeit we have to put a little foot in to it occasionally on steep grades through the smokies. With a WDH and TT package and a OEM brake controller which ties in to your computer in the truck you should be fine!View attachment 240322

Wow that sure is a big trailer to weight 5500 loaded!

 

[Firebird]

We don’t know what happened it could have been anything.

I agree completely, but I always wonder if the outcome would have been different had he been driving a 3/4 or 1 ton?