Low end torque

[TRCM]

Thing is, it didn’t “lug” the engine at all. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. The older engines made their peek power much lower in the rpm range, and didn’t need to spin up to 6k just to pass someone.

Perfect example of this is the 4.0 (I6) vs the 3.8(V6). They are similar in displacement and peek output, but the 3.8 has to rev much higher to make those peek numbers.
This lead to a lot of people feeling like the 3.8 was under powered or “doggy” because they were used to the 4.0 having its torque so low in the rpm range.

My current truck for example (2012,5.7,6speed) is no slouch, however, it pulls considerably harder above 3000rpm.
Example: rolling start, hit the gas, it down shifts and pulls ok. But once it hits 3K, you can feel it come alive.

While the engine in my old truck did make slightly less peek power(350 vs the hemi’s ~400), it hit those peek numbers much lower in the rpm range. It was “all in” under 3500rpm, which is where the hemi is just starting to come alive.

It is a completely different driving experience, and one that I sometimes miss.


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1) comparing the 4.0 inline 6 to a 3.8 V6 is a lousy comparison, peak output or not...an inline engine with the same numbers of cylinders will almost always have more torque than a V configuration

2) unless you built it, I doubt your 360 had 350 hp, and trust me, it likely did lug the motor, you just didn't realize it. As a general rule, you burn more fuel making power at low rpm like you want, than you do making it at higher rpm like the hemi is designed to do. Also, it probably had better gearing which helped it seem to have more power now, as todays trucks are geared for mpg, not power. Why do you think towing packages have better gearing.....to let the engine spin up and make more power when needed easier.

3) the reason your hemi comes on strong after 3000 rpm is it is designed to do that....at that rpm, the variable valve timing starts to let it work like a much larger engine.....below that, it sips fuel/air for good mpg numbers, as that's where most people drive....in that rpm range. Your old 360 had no variable valve timing, it was always sucking in lots of air & fuel...which is why it got such lousy mpg, but also why it seems to have more power right now, cuz it is already swallowing what it needs to.


If you want your hemi to be like your old 360, get a tuner and lock out the VVT and MDS stuff, so you will always have power & max fuel/air flow...and get a 2nd job to pay the fuel bill.



The ramcharger in my avatar was fun to drive, and I miss it too. It had a 360 I built, and while I don't know the exact HP for sure, I DO know, it had enough to push a 6300 lb 4x4 on 40" tires with all the aerodynamics of a barn and only 4.56 gears to a 9.2 sec 1/8 mile, chirping the tires on the 1-2 shift as it did it.......and it got 10 mpg, no matter how it was driven.

 

[muddy12]

Sorry, guess my post was a little confusing.
The 360 in the wagoneer was totally stock.

It was my 82 Chevrolet K20 that I built the engine for, that was 350hp.


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[TRCM]

Sorry, guess my post was a little confusing.
The 360 in the wagoneer was totally stock.

It was my 82 Chevrolet K20 that I built the engine for, that was 350hp.


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gotcha....I thought you were taking about the 360...............cuz most of the small block motors back then were very well neutered in stock form

 

[NewBlackDak]

1) comparing the 4.0 inline 6 to a 3.8 V6 is a lousy comparison, peak output or not...an inline engine with the same numbers of cylinders will almost always have more torque than a V configuration

2) unless you built it, I doubt your 360 had 350 hp, and trust me, it likely did lug the motor, you just didn't realize it. As a general rule, you burn more fuel making power at low rpm like you want, than you do making it at higher rpm like the hemi is designed to do. Also, it probably had better gearing which helped it seem to have more power now, as todays trucks are geared for mpg, not power. Why do you think towing packages have better gearing.....to let the engine spin up and make more power when needed easier.

3) the reason your hemi comes on strong after 3000 rpm is it is designed to do that....at that rpm, the variable valve timing starts to let it work like a much larger engine.....below that, it sips fuel/air for good mpg numbers, as that's where most people drive....in that rpm range. Your old 360 had no variable valve timing, it was always sucking in lots of air & fuel...which is why it got such lousy mpg, but also why it seems to have more power right now, cuz it is already swallowing what it needs to.


If you want your hemi to be like your old 360, get a tuner and lock out the VVT and MDS stuff, so you will always have power & max fuel/air flow...and get a 2nd job to pay the fuel bill.



The ramcharger in my avatar was fun to drive, and I miss it too. It had a 360 I built, and while I don't know the exact HP for sure, I DO know, it had enough to push a 6300 lb 4x4 on 40" tires with all the aerodynamics of a barn and only 4.56 gears to a 9.2 sec 1/8 mile, chirping the tires on the 1-2 shift as it did it.......and it got 10 mpg, no matter how it was driven.

Did better than my 440 powered Ram 250, same gears and only on 38s. Got about 6mpg everywhere it went.


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[muddy12]

Guess more than anything I was just trying to point out that old vs new required a bit of a change in driving style.

For me personally, I was used to driving with engines that spent most of their time in the idle to 2500 rpm range. It took me quite a while to get used to letting the hemi rev high enough to get into its power band.


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[Factory]

Gears and a Jay Greene towing tune

 

[s_chev]

Greetings from the foot hills of the Rockies. I have a 2014 1500 4x4 and we are out on our first long trip with our new 5th wheel camper. I am disappointed in my fine Ram for the first time ever. Driving around Texas pulling our camper never seemed to be much of a task, but here in the mountains, it sucks. Most of the time I'm running in 4th gear and sometimes down in 3rd just to get up hills that don't seem that steep. I've been doing good to get to 65 mph and my gas mileage is down around 7.8mpg.

I'll have to admit that it's partially my fault. I have 35" off-road tires and a slight lift and I'm pulling a 5th wheel that 10,300lbs. I do have a Diablo tuner and I have the tow tune loaded. I also have a Vararam air intake and a Flowmaster muffler, but she's still struggling.

I came across this forum string here and was interested in if anyone knows how much it actually costs to have the gears changed out. I went and looked at my original window sticker and I have 3.21 gears! It sounds like a gear change is the best bet as I love my Ram 99% of the time.

Anyone have an estimate for a gear change job?
Thanks,
~Steve
Haslet, TX

 

[BlkZrx]

Greetings from the foot hills of the Rockies. I have a 2014 1500 4x4 and we are out on our first long trip with our new 5th wheel camper. I am disappointed in my fine Ram for the first time ever. Driving around Texas pulling our camper never seemed to be much of a task, but here in the mountains, it sucks. Most of the time I'm running in 4th gear and sometimes down in 3rd just to get up hills that don't seem that steep. I've been doing good to get to 65 mph and my gas mileage is down around 7.8mpg.

I'll have to admit that it's partially my fault. I have 35" off-road tires and a slight lift and I'm pulling a 5th wheel that 10,300lbs. I do have a Diablo tuner and I have the tow tune loaded. I also have a Vararam air intake and a Flowmaster muffler, but she's still struggling.

I came across this forum string here and was interested in if anyone knows how much it actually costs to have the gears changed out. I went and looked at my original window sticker and I have 3.21 gears! It sounds like a gear change is the best bet as I love my Ram 99% of the time.

Anyone have an estimate for a gear change job?
Thanks,
~Steve
Haslet, TX

You're really pulling a 5 ton fifth wheel with a 1/2 ton truck? Pics or it didn't happen..

 

[NewBlackDak]

You're really pulling a 5 ton fifth wheel with a 1/2 ton truck? Pics or it didn't happen..

Sounds dangerous to me.


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[crazykid1994]

Greetings from the foot hills of the Rockies. I have a 2014 1500 4x4 and we are out on our first long trip with our new 5th wheel camper. I am disappointed in my fine Ram for the first time ever. Driving around Texas pulling our camper never seemed to be much of a task, but here in the mountains, it sucks. Most of the time I'm running in 4th gear and sometimes down in 3rd just to get up hills that don't seem that steep. I've been doing good to get to 65 mph and my gas mileage is down around 7.8mpg.

I'll have to admit that it's partially my fault. I have 35" off-road tires and a slight lift and I'm pulling a 5th wheel that 10,300lbs. I do have a Diablo tuner and I have the tow tune loaded. I also have a Vararam air intake and a Flowmaster muffler, but she's still struggling.

I came across this forum string here and was interested in if anyone knows how much it actually costs to have the gears changed out. I went and looked at my original window sticker and I have 3.21 gears! It sounds like a gear change is the best bet as I love my Ram 99% of the time.

Anyone have an estimate for a gear change job?
Thanks,
~Steve
Haslet, TX

Better off upgrading to a 2500 as the 3.92 geared 1500 trucks max towing is around 10,000 lbs anyways. A lot safer to upgrade to a 2500 as well with the 6.4 hemi

 

[buckeyexx]

Better off upgrading to a 2500 as the 3.92 geared 1500 trucks max towing is around 10,000 lbs anyways. A lot safer to upgrade to a 2500 as well with the 6.4 hemi

I wouldn’t be too disappointed as you are asking to do an awful lot with that 1500


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[69GWC]

You're really pulling a 5 ton fifth wheel with a 1/2 ton truck? Pics or it didn't happen..

I see this alot and not just Rams, Chevys and Fords.

 

[TRCM]

Greetings from the foot hills of the Rockies. I have a 2014 1500 4x4 and we are out on our first long trip with our new 5th wheel camper. I am disappointed in my fine Ram for the first time ever. Driving around Texas pulling our camper never seemed to be much of a task, but here in the mountains, it sucks. Most of the time I'm running in 4th gear and sometimes down in 3rd just to get up hills that don't seem that steep. I've been doing good to get to 65 mph and my gas mileage is down around 7.8mpg.

I'll have to admit that it's partially my fault. I have 35" off-road tires and a slight lift and I'm pulling a 5th wheel that 10,300lbs. I do have a Diablo tuner and I have the tow tune loaded. I also have a Vararam air intake and a Flowmaster muffler, but she's still struggling.

I came across this forum string here and was interested in if anyone knows how much it actually costs to have the gears changed out. I went and looked at my original window sticker and I have 3.21 gears! It sounds like a gear change is the best bet as I love my Ram 99% of the time.

Anyone have an estimate for a gear change job?
Thanks,
~Steve
Haslet, TX

If what you say is true, it's a lot more than partially your fault.....

1) 10k 5th wheel
2) 35" tires
3) lift
4) all with 3.21 gears

........I'd say it's about 90% your fault !!!!!!!

A gear change is gonna run you an easy $2500 or more for both axles, and labor, and I'm not sure if you can just change the gears on yours, cuz on some years, you have to change the carrier and axle shafts as well, cuz the factory gears are welded to the carrier.

 

[BlkZrx]

1000 lbs over payload rating at a minmum..

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[gofishn]

Greetings from the foot hills of the Rockies. I have a 2014 1500 4x4 and we are out on our first long trip with our new 5th wheel camper. I am disappointed in my fine Ram for the first time ever. Driving around Texas pulling our camper never seemed to be much of a task, but here in the mountains, it sucks. Most of the time I'm running in 4th gear and sometimes down in 3rd just to get up hills that don't seem that steep. I've been doing good to get to 65 mph and my gas mileage is down around 7.8mpg.

I'll have to admit that it's partially my fault. I have 35" off-road tires and a slight lift and I'm pulling a 5th wheel that 10,300lbs. I do have a Diablo tuner and I have the tow tune loaded. I also have a Vararam air intake and a Flowmaster muffler, but she's still struggling.

I came across this forum string here and was interested in if anyone knows how much it actually costs to have the gears changed out. I went and looked at my original window sticker and I have 3.21 gears! It sounds like a gear change is the best bet as I love my Ram 99% of the time.

Anyone have an estimate for a gear change job?
Thanks,
~Steve
Haslet, TX

Got too much trailer, for the truck.
Got too much tire, for the truck to pull any significant sized trailer
Got too small of gearing to pull anywhere near the weight you are pulling
Got too small a truck, regardless of gearing, to pull that weight with any regularity or distance


I got a 2014 1500 4x4, 5.7l, 8 speed, 3:92 gears. Decades of experience pulling all kinds of weight.
That trailer is far more weight than I would want to pull, with my truck, often or far.
Locally, maybe but that'd be about it.

Get a bigger truck or smaller trailer before life teaches a very expensive, hard lesson.

Don't feel bad, even those who are supposed to be Professional Drivers get taught hard lessons too.

https://www.kcra.com/article/video-...mble-off-northern-california-highway/23745643


OP

Would not re-gear your truck . As gearing go down, RPM's at same speed tend to go up.

 

[GsRAM]

Wow that video is crazy. That dude was someplace he never should have been.

No reply from the 1500/5th whee guy. Could be a troll? Who knows? Sure seems like it to me but who knows. If he's legit we all know he's got nothing to Complain about. He's about double his payload rating, and very lucky he hasn't broke anything yet. Ask to Chevys and Fords pulling them also 1500 series, I haven't seen any Chevys doing it, I have seen F-150s doing it. However, the F-150s have a Max payload option available, that can give them and their low 2000 payload rating. So properly equipped, with the heavy duty payload package, and Max trailer tow package, yes there are some fifth wheels F-150s can tow.

To the guy who posted about towing a fifth wheel with a 1500 series Ram, if that's a legitimate post, don't bother wasting your money on Gears. You're in 3/4 ton truck territory with that rig. Plain and simple. And I'm not one, who says you can't do anything heavy with a half ton truck. But in your case, you do need a 3/4 ton truck.

 

[TRCM]

I've had to take detours like the guy in that vid SHOULD have done when pulling my 24' gooseneck behind my longbed extended cab dually before.

1st was due to length, all signs said "No truck/trailer combos of any kind".....

2nd, was due to low clearance, I didn't know till I got there (no signs until you were about 100 yds from it), and had to turn the rig around, because the other truck on the trailer (another 3500 4x4 dually, non-lifted), would have never fit under the overpass - if you want to call it that - I would have had to go thru. It was a small little rural arched underpass, that I don't think a school bus could go thru without straddling the two lanes.

 

[GsRAM]

I've had to take detours like the guy in that vid SHOULD have done when pulling my 24' gooseneck behind my longbed extended cab dually before.

1st was due to length, all signs said "No truck/trailer combos of any kind".....

2nd, was due to low clearance, I didn't know till I got there (no signs until you were about 100 yds from it), and had to turn the rig around, because the other truck on the trailer (another 3500 4x4 dually, non-lifted), would have never fit under the overpass - if you want to call it that - I would have had to go thru. It was a small little rural arched underpass, that I don't think a school bus could go thru without straddling the two lanes.

A good example of why I don't just blindly follow the GPS. I take printed maps and know the route beforehand for the most part. Yes you can still have surprises, but the chances for them are greatly reduced.

 

[TRCM]

A good example of why I don't just blindly follow the GPS. I take printed maps and know the route beforehand for the most part. Yes you can still have surprises, but the chances for them are greatly reduced.

Understand, but this was before GPS, or at least before I had one.

 

[GsRAM]

Understand, but this was before GPS, or at least before I had one.

Understood. Nothing intended to be implied.