Low end torque

[Gerry66]

I have a 2016 ram 1500. 5.7 with a 6 speed tranny. 3:55 gears. I pull a 25' trailer from a hitch @ 4400 lbs. I find at 2000 rpm at 65 mp/ h it wants to constantly shift down a gear, sending rpms over 3000.
I'm looking for suggestions on how to increase my torque at this rpm .
Is a gear change the easiest, or headers and intake?
Anyhelp is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[69GWC]

Gears then a tune, but going to 4:10 would be the best first step.

 

[huntergreen]

Gears for sure.

 

[mtofell]

Just curious..... what's wrong with 3000 RPMs? And fwiw, it shouldn't be 1000 higher with one shift. These gas trucks make their power at higher RPMs. I guess my point is what are your trying to accomplish in getting the truck to behave differently than how it is designed to?

 

[GsRAM]

Just curious..... what's wrong with 3000 RPMs? And fwiw, it shouldn't be 1000 higher with one shift. These gas trucks make their power at higher RPMs. I guess my point is what are your trying to accomplish in getting the truck to behave differently than how it is designed to?

Agreed...a 3.55 gear with the 6 speed should be pleanty for a 4400lb trailer if that's your actual loaded weight.

Are you using tow/haul mode? If not you should be.

As stated gas engines make their power up in the rpm band, so when towing expect a lot more of that.

My truck is down into 4th gear/3.000 plus rpm frequently when I'm towing. I just let it sing and enjoy the tunes the big hemi is pumping out...lol. Can't beat the sound of a V8 working! But I'm an old gear head.

Be careful of your speed towing as most ST rated traiker tires are speed limited to 65 mph. Exceed That for too long and you'll overheat them and then bad things Happen (boom)

If it's bothering you though, yes some 4.10 or even 4.30 gears would help a lot. Exhaust, headers. Etc only really help if you change heads, intake and cam to take advantage of the increased air flow.

Gears are the best seat of the pants improvement you can make....good luck.

 

[crash68]

If you want low end torque to tow at 2K rpms, get a diesel. I do have 3.92 gearing, but I was towing 8000 lbs @65 with the RPMs on either side of 2k depending on if I was climbing a hill in 7th.
As stated before, with a gasser, expect to be higher in the rpm range. It wouldn't be surprising to have 4k rpm shifts. Your not hurting the engine reving around the torque peak.

Just curious..... what's wrong with 3000 RPMs? And fwiw, it shouldn't be 1000 higher with one shift. These gas trucks make their power at higher RPMs.

It's possible, I did the math assuming 33" tire with 3.55 @65mph:
6th: 1570 (.67)
5th: 1750 (.75)
4th: 2350 (1.0)
3rd: 3520 (1.5)
That leap down to third is brutal. Ram engineers were not thinking towing when selecting this transmission.

 

[TRCM]

If you want low end torque to tow at 2K rpms, get a diesel. I do have 3.92 gearing, but I was towing 8000 lbs @65 with the RPMs on either side of 2k depending on if I was climbing a hill in 7th.
As stated before, with a gasser, expect to be higher in the rpm range. It wouldn't be surprising to have 4k rpm shifts. Your not hurting the engine reving around the torque peak.



It's possible, I did the math assuming 33" tire with 3.55 @65mph:
6th: 1570 (.67)
5th: 1750 (.75)
4th: 2350 (1.0)
3rd: 3520 (1.5)
That leap down to third is brutal. Ram engineers were not thinking towing when selecting this transmission.

One of them gears in only there when you manually shift (5th maybe)......and 1 is not available when using tow/haul either (6th).

 

[crash68]

One of them gears in only there when you manually shift (5th maybe)......and 1 is not available when using tow/haul either (6th).

I believe it is third gear, it's used as a "kick down" gear. Skips it on the way up, drops in on the way down if needed.
I can see why 6th would be locked out especially on a gasser, you would have to be towing 80+ mph to remotely come close to staying in gear...lol

 

[Don_T]

Use the tow/haul mode and let the truck do what it is designed to do. As long as it can maintain speed on the hills, it doesn’t matter what gear it is in or what RPM the motor is turning. It is a gas engine so I won’t have the low end torque but it most likely has enough power and gear.

 

[Snyd]

Slow down. Find the sweet spot. No need for speed when towing.

 

[muddy12]

This (just let it rev, its a gas engine) is my biggest complaint about modern trucks with gas engines. Well, that, and the lack of a manual transmission option.
Anyway, back to topic; I grew up driving older vehicles. Heck, before buying my ram(2.5 years ago),I was daily driving a 1987 Jeep grand wagoneer.
By today’s standards, the AMC 360 in the wagoneer didn’t make much torque. The thing is though, it made its power really low in the rpm range. For example; Cruising at 55mph on the highway, and need to pas? No problem, just give it a little more gas. It would accelerate to 70 quite briskly, without having to down shift.

I also had an old Chevy truck with a built 350 small block. It made roughly 350ft/lbs torque, and was somewhere north of 300HP. It made all that power well below the 4000rpm mark. It pulled especially hard from just off idle(maybe 1000) to 3000rpm.

Not bashing on the newer stuff by any means.
I just miss the low rpm torque of the older gas engines.


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[VernDiesel]

If you have a 4WD changing gears may be cost prohibitive. Naturally if you have cash to burn it will work better than any other single thing. The right tune will help and put with a shorter tire at tire change time may very well be enough. A header that has in its design to free up low end torque would also help especially when added with a tune and a lil shorter tire. Even tune and headers together wouldn't be as expensive as a gear swap on a 4WD. Somewhere in there you can get over the hump with your load so that you are again happy with your truck and towing that load.

Other options trading the truck for the dramatically better 8 speed and there is no cost to additionally getting a lower differential gear at that time should you choose to do that. That said with an 8 speed you would not need a lower differential gear for that trailer. But eventually trading for a larger travel trailer isn't uncommon. And as Crash said at trade time you could also consider the Ecodiesel. I bought one to tow moderate loads. It has a lil more torque than the Hemi and at a much lower rpm. It will plod along with a TT at 65 & 2k all day long. Getting crazy economy while being smooth quiet & refined. In fact I can tell you I average 15.0 mpg with Airstreams & 14.0 to 14.2 with box style TTs depending on aero nose or flat and its weight. Lol Most gas v8 pickups get 15 mpg running around town empty.

 

[TRCM]

This (just let it rev, its a gas engine) is my biggest complaint about modern trucks with gas engines. Well, that, and the lack of a manual transmission option.
Anyway, back to topic; I grew up driving older vehicles. Heck, before buying my ram(2.5 years ago),I was daily driving a 1987 Jeep grand wagoneer.
By today’s standards, the AMC 360 in the wagoneer didn’t make much torque. The thing is though, it made its power really low in the rpm range. For example; Cruising at 55mph on the highway, and need to pas? No problem, just give it a little more gas. It would accelerate to 70 quite briskly, without having to down shift.

I also had an old Chevy truck with a built 350 small block. It made roughly 350ft/lbs torque, and was somewhere north of 300HP. It made all that power well below the 4000rpm mark. It pulled especially hard from just off idle(maybe 1000) to 3000rpm.

Not bashing on the newer stuff by any means.
I just miss the low rpm torque of the older gas engines.


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That grand wagoneer also didn't downshift so easy cuz it only had 3 gears......took a lot to get it to downshift compared to today's transmissions.

Today's transmissions downshift faster cuz it's means the engine revs and doesn't lug, which helps emissions and mpg.

 

[UnsatFC]

If you want low end torque to tow at 2K rpms, get a diesel. I do have 3.92 gearing, but I was towing 8000 lbs @65 with the RPMs on either side of 2k depending on if I was climbing a hill in 7th.
As stated before, with a gasser, expect to be higher in the rpm range. It wouldn't be surprising to have 4k rpm shifts. Your not hurting the engine reving around the torque peak.



It's possible, I did the math assuming 33" tire with 3.55 @65mph:
6th: 1570 (.67)
5th: 1750 (.75)
4th: 2350 (1.0)
3rd: 3520 (1.5)
That leap down to third is brutal. Ram engineers were not thinking towing when selecting this transmission.

Are your calculations for the 6 speed or 8?

 

[crash68]

Are your calculations for the 6 speed or 8?

Those are for the 6 speed.
The 8 speed for 6, 7, 8 would be similar to 4, 5, 6 of the 6 speed as the gear ratios are similar.

 

[UnsatFC]

Those are for the 6 speed.
The 8 speed for 6, 7, 8 would be similar to 4, 5, 6 of the 6 speed as the gear ratios are similar.
View attachment 142516

Thanks I remembered incorrectly, I though 3rd for the 6 speed was 1.00 but I see now it’s the kick down gear, thanks.

 

[muddy12]

That grand wagoneer also didn't downshift so easy cuz it only had 3 gears......took a lot to get it to downshift compared to today's transmissions.

Today's transmissions downshift faster cuz it's means the engine revs and doesn't lug, which helps emissions and mpg.

Thing is, it didn’t “lug” the engine at all. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. The older engines made their peek power much lower in the rpm range, and didn’t need to spin up to 6k just to pass someone.

Perfect example of this is the 4.0 (I6) vs the 3.8(V6). They are similar in displacement and peek output, but the 3.8 has to rev much higher to make those peek numbers.
This lead to a lot of people feeling like the 3.8 was under powered or “doggy” because they were used to the 4.0 having its torque so low in the rpm range.

My current truck for example (2012,5.7,6speed) is no slouch, however, it pulls considerably harder above 3000rpm.
Example: rolling start, hit the gas, it down shifts and pulls ok. But once it hits 3K, you can feel it come alive.

While the engine in my old truck did make slightly less peek power(350 vs the hemi’s ~400), it hit those peek numbers much lower in the rpm range. It was “all in” under 3500rpm, which is where the hemi is just starting to come alive.

It is a completely different driving experience, and one that I sometimes miss.


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[22hemi13]

This (just let it rev, its a gas engine) is my biggest complaint about modern trucks with gas engines. Well, that, and the lack of a manual transmission option.
Anyway, back to topic; I grew up driving older vehicles. Heck, before buying my ram(2.5 years ago),I was daily driving a 1987 Jeep grand wagoneer.
By today’s standards, the AMC 360 in the wagoneer didn’t make much torque. The thing is though, it made its power really low in the rpm range. For example; Cruising at 55mph on the highway, and need to pas? No problem, just give it a little more gas. It would accelerate to 70 quite briskly, without having to down shift.

I also had an old Chevy truck with a built 350 small block. It made roughly 350ft/lbs torque, and was somewhere north of 300HP. It made all that power well below the 4000rpm mark. It pulled especially hard from just off idle(maybe 1000) to 3000rpm.

Not bashing on the newer stuff by any means.
I just miss the low rpm torque of the older gas engines.


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Big brother stepped in. Now it’s all about fuel economy.

 

[NewBlackDak]

Big brother stepped in. Now it’s all about fuel economy.

It’s not just that. The horsepower wars have pushed the power band up higher in the RPM range. Nothing says “best in class horsepower” like 10 more HP at 5K RPMs.


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[muddy12]

It’s funny you mention fuel mileage.

My ram, despite being 30 years newer, gets almost exactly (off by +-1 mpg) the same mpg as the 82 Chevy I had.

Granted, I did put in some time tuning the quadrajet on the Chevy, but it was a 3/4 ton 4x4 with a manual non-overdrive transmission(SM465), and low axle gears. It was lifted with 33” or 35” tires(tires varied by season), and always had a full toolbox and other equipment in the bed.
Also, I was younger and tended to drive much more aggressively, but still managed to get a consistent 13+mpg out of it.

My ram is lifted with 35’s, never has anything in the bed, and I drive it much more conservatively than I did the Chevy. My ram typically averages between 13.5 and 14.5 mpg.


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