Major engine and tranny failures

[PTR1962]

A little history first. I am a fleet manager for a company in central Florida. We have a 2015 Ram 2500 4x4 automatic that had a reman Mopar 6.4 installed about 20k miles ago. This was done a few years ago before i started working for the company. I do not know the story behind the previous engines failure and was not involved in the install of the reman engine. The truck has about 135k on it. I received a call Friday from the employee driving the truck that he was stuck in an intersection and the truck would not move. I sent a tech to the scene because the local police department was there directing traffic around him and he was within a few miles of the shop. When he got there the truck was shut off and now wouldn’t crank. There was coolant all over the right side of the engine bay but the coolant was full and so was the oil. I had it towed back to the shop and upon further inspection we found that the engine is seized up solid. scanned for codes and there is 11 transmission codes that are related to a transmission that was slipping. Everything from gear ratio to pressure codes. There was no engine codes. We got the truck on the lift and pulled the serp belt and starter hoping for the answer to the engine was simple. No such luck. Drained the engine oil and its black but was full and did not see any signs of metal that would lead you to a mechanical failure. I talked with the driver and he proceeded to tell me in broken English how he kept trying to get the truck to move. With giving it gas. Not sure how long he tried that before we arrived or if the engine stalled or was shut off. I inspected the mopar installed overheat tab on the left rear head freeze plug and its pink. That now tells me that the engine got to 255 Deg.
Now the question, has anyone dealt with a 6.4 that overheated and locked up. Has anyone seen a transmission lock up and keep the engine from turning at all? If this driver ran this truck to a point that after the transmission failed he took out the engine to is a very bad day.
I do know what types of damage overheating an engine to the point of seizing are for the everyday engine but is there anything about the 6.4 that is more specific to it.
Of coarse the owner is hoping that since they just paid crazy money to buy the reman from Chrysler during covid that it is Repairable If it’s the motor locked up Also. As the fleet manager i really don't want to pull the motor and transmission and tear it apart if someone has been there and can give me what they found a 6.4 overheat sieze destroys. Used engines are a fortune with little if any warranty, reman with the strike will most likely be hard to find and cost some big bucks then ad a transmission to the mix it turns into a WOW. New trucks a through the roof and the driver really doesn’t deserve a new truck the way he toke care of this one. The best case is the transmission is keeping the engine from turning but I have never seen it.
Thanks for spending the time to read this long post and any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[chri5k]

Overheats I have worked on usually had one or more seized pistons and and occasional bent conrod. Cracked heads and blocks.

I have seen manual transmissions lock up an engine. It is possible for an automatic to but several failures would have to occur. Unlikely but possible. Can you give a read out of all the codes?

Oh and thank your lucky stars the employee wasn’t injured in traffic dealing with the failed vehicle. Workman’s comp claims / personal injury lawsuits are usually way more expensive than fixing a broken truck.

 

[PTR1962]

The comment about broken English was in no way hating on the driver, it was to make note that i really don’t know the story of what really happened. He was very hard to understand and the series of events.

 

[PTR1962]

Overheats I have worked on usually had one or more seized pistons and and occasional bent conrod. Cracked heads and blocks.

I have seen manual transmissions lock up an engine. It is possible for an automatic to but several failures would have to occur. Unlikely but possible. Can you give a read out of all the codes?

Oh and thank your lucky stars the employee wasn’t injured in traffic dealing with the failed vehicle. Workman’s comp claims / personal injury lawsuits are usually way more expensive than fixing a broken truck.

Why are we going into comp, lawsuits, personal injury. Vehicles breakdown at intersections everyday Without incidents, lawsuits, comp claims. I cant believe that reading what i wrote sent others in directions like this. Craziness.

 

[markabby]

from your post, i'm gathering the transmission locked up, and the driver, desperately trying to get it to move out of the intersection, was forcing the engine against the locked / seized torque converter. Over heated the engine, but maybe the transmission is keeping it locked?

pull the plugs after dropping the tranny and see is you can manually force the engine to turn over.

just my .02 worth of thoughts

 

[Travelin Ram]

OP is trying to convey that he's not sure exactly what happened to the truck since there is a communication gap.
Not disagreeing with your point; it’s valid.

Moving on, though, “the driver really doesn’t deserve a new truck the way he toke care of this one”.

OP is not sure what happened, yet that doesn’t stop assigning blame.

These engines and transmissions of that generation are known to have problems. And this one’s got a failure history and a reman in it already. And what have we heard about the maintenance history? Zip. Any business with a fleet manager I’d certainly hope has written records.

If I was the owner, I’d like to see the records on this one, from day one to the present.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

I think the OP meant the driver didn't fully understand English only, maybe the truck ran hot, there is a light and a temp gauge, the driver should have shut down the engine and not to try to restart it, It should have gone into limp mode, sounds like the problem could of started in the transmission and the engine got hot trying to overcome it, pull the trans and see if you have a torque converter problem, the codes in the trans will tell you what happened first!!!!

 

[G-Ride990]

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[EastWestHemi]

this entire thread was just plain painful. Maybe the OP was overly blunt— I could sense his frustration because he probably has his boss breathing down his neck on this major repair. Probably best he read the codes, separate the tranny, and try to spin the motor. Drop the fluids and look for metal. I’m interested in knowing the results— let’s not scare away a new member who is a professional manager of a fleet that could teach us a thing or two. Think about it like this, if I’m driving for a company in Honduras and I burn up a truck and speak some Spanglish to the service manager…. What reaction do you think that manager who have with me? Globalization is tough, but I don’t think there is any bad intentions here to get all spun up on. I’d have reason to
Believe the fella who was in the truck when it took a crap probably works very hard at his job— I doubt his job is just driving around a 3/4 ton truck all day endlessly. OP— Good luck figuring out the truck, I’m curious to know the outcome.

My father in law’s 2016 2500 6.4 with 80k on the clock is having a new valve body installed. Went into limp mode two months ago and he just kept driving it not realizing he was in 4th gear. Scary thing, he drove it 3000 miles coast to coast with a 14’ enclosed trailer with 6k lbs in it in limp mode too!!!! He bought the truck used with 60k miles. I keep trying to tell him he needs to get rid of the truck because he just isn’t cut out to maintain a serious piece of machinery when he’s been driving corrolla’s around his entire life. Some people don’t know how to drive or maintain 7000 lb vehicles…. English, no English, doesn’t matter.

 

[chri5k]

Why are we going into comp, lawsuits, personal injury. Vehicles breakdown at intersections everyday Without incidents, lawsuits, comp claims. I cant believe that reading what i wrote sent others in directions like this. Craziness.

I mentioned those issues because managing a business fleet of vehicles is about more than just keeping them running. Managing all the business risks associated with the vehicles is usually part of the job. Equipping the vehicles with breakdown safety gear and having written breakdown procedures for employees is part of reducing those risks.

 

[pacofortacos]

The answer is yes, the trans can lock and prevent the engine from turning over - only way to tell is to disconnect the trans (usually via the torque converter bolts, so not overly intensive).
It isn't common but is possible.

I can understand the frustration with an overheated engine, since it seems like it takes a whole lot of stupid to run one that hot vs. pulling over. Usually it's either a lack of knowledge or a deliberate attempt to get to where you were going - pick your poison.
I would venture like others have that the trans failed and the overheat occurred after that while trying to get out of the road.

Probably both roasted at this point.

 

[4xdad]

I run heavy equipment for a living if something breaks the first thing that they ask is what happened. If you can’t tell the mechanic because of a communication problem it makes it hard for them. I have worked with people who run equipment but they don’t have a clue how they work. Doesn’t matter what flavour you are a little mechanical knowledge is important. Transmission and engine problems are known for these trucks maybe you got both at the same time

 

[RD Holland]

Sometimes a person driving a car just doesn't do what you might want them to do. I once had a Chevy seize up. The oil sending unit line broke. The driver saw smoke trailing behind the vehicle. And then the engine oil low light came on. He pulled into a place and bought some oil. Then drove some more. Then he stopped and got more oil. And more. Then, there were no more places to get oil (or he ran out of money, I don't recall now). He drove it until it died. He called and said he tried to start it and it turned over real slow so he let it site for a while after which it would not turn over. He wanted me to come and jump him off. It was when I got to him that he told me about the smoke and low oil and how it finally started backfiring and making all sorts of noises. I opened the hood and saw oil had been spraying on the sidewall and saw the broken line. No tranny involved. Definitely a seized engine

 

[mdc1990zr1]

The answer is yes, the trans can lock and prevent the engine from turning over - only way to tell is to disconnect the trans (usually via the torque converter bolts, so not overly intensive).
It isn't common but is possible.

I can understand the frustration with an overheated engine, since it seems like it takes a whole lot of stupid to run one that hot vs. pulling over. Usually it's either a lack of knowledge or a deliberate attempt to get to where you were going - pick your poison.
I would venture like others have that the trans failed and the overheat occurred after that while trying to get out of the road.

Probably both roasted at this point.

I had a 1996 GMC Jimmy with 250K and the drivetrain was never touched. On a hot summer day with the A/C on, my rpm's suddenly shot up and all kinds of warning lights came on. I did everything I could to pull off to the side of the road to look at the situation. I had a serious knock coming from the lower half of the engine and the transmission was in limp mode, couldn't get out of 2nd gear. It turns out that the transmission went, maybe a band slipped or broke and that destroyed my engine with an over rev condition. I maintain all my vehicles very well, and this was totally unexpected. Not worth it to repair, so off to the scrap yard it went.

 

[pacofortacos]

I had a 1996 GMC Jimmy with 250K and the drivetrain was never touched. On a hot summer day with the A/C on, my rpm's suddenly shot up and all kinds of warning lights came on. I did everything I could to pull off to the side of the road to look at the situation. I had a serious knock coming from the lower half of the engine and the transmission was in limp mode, couldn't get out of 2nd gear. It turns out that the transmission went, maybe a band slipped or broke and that destroyed my engine with an over rev condition. I maintain all my vehicles very well, and this was totally unexpected. Not worth it to repair, so off to the scrap yard it went.

It can happen, not too often to where you overheat it enough to pop one of those temp indicators though

You can overrev really quickly, especially if the computer doesn't stop it.

Usually don't overheat that quickly though, I could see going until the bells and whistles go off without knowing it's hot, but they usually go off way before the point of severe damage in today's vehicles.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

It can happen, not too often to where you overheat it enough to pop one of those temp indicators though

You can overrev really quickly, especially if the computer doesn't stop it.

Usually don't overheat that quickly though, I could see going until the bells and whistles go off without knowing it's hot, but they usually go off way before the point of severe damage in today's vehicles.

Nothing overheated at all. Just a catastrophic transmission failure cruising 65mph and revs up there and it wiped the engine out. Sad day, ******** happens. At least that's what Forrest says.

 

[PTR1962]

As of now i had a tech pull the transmission and we found the engine now turns. The Input shaft on the transmission is seized up. Without putting the engine under load it will be tough to tell if the 255 Deg overheat caused internal engine issues.

 

[pacofortacos]

Nothing overheated at all. Just a catastrophic transmission failure cruising 65mph and revs up there and it wiped the engine out. Sad day, ******** happens. At least that's what Forrest says.

Sorry, I was referring to the OP's post as far as overheating. I should have been clearer.

That's one plus on the newer vehicles, they can only rev so high before the computer stops it.

 

[Andrei20]

Please, don't blame the driver. Anyone stuck on an intersection will try to get out of it by any means. Were there any instructions when he was assigned the truck that if any sort of lights come on on the dash and the truck doesn't move to just shut it off at that instant moment and walk away from it and call the boss? If he's not a mechanic, how would he know of any possible consequences?
Good luck with the repairs. Hopefully the damage is minimal.

 

[2003F350]

As of now i had a tech pull the transmission and we found the engine now turns. The Input shaft on the transmission is seized up. Without putting the engine under load it will be tough to tell if the 255 Deg overheat caused internal engine issues.

Thanks for the update, kinda was starting to figure it was the transmission.

It's not impossible to see if there's any internal damage - drain the oil and coolant, check for cross-contamination and any bearing material/shavings in the oil. Pull the spark plugs and scope the bores, look for scoring or water/oil in the combustion chamber. Put an indicator on the crank somewhere, pry gently back and forth on it to check for play. Change directions and look for radial play/runout in the crank. If anything is out of tolerance (I don't know what the tolerances are, you'd have to look them up) or there is cross-contamination or bearing shavings in the oil, then you've got issues and should tear it down to inspect/repair.

These are all things you can do to check without disassembling. If all of these check out fine then you're probably okay. If you can dummy out the transmission switch to make it think it is still in park or neutral, you can refill all engine fluids, put the starter back on, make sure no one is near the flexplate, and you SHOULD be able to start the engine for a bit and listen to it, see if it makes any unusual knocking sounds from the lower end - you're listening for rod knock, if there's no bearing shavings in the oil then this should be unlikely but possible. If that's not present I would almost say that the engine is okay.

One short overheat doesn't usually do much, if any, internal damage.