Manifold cracked AGAIN--shorty headers install advice

[Lamarsh]

My manifold has cracked yet again on my 2020 Rebel. It first cracked at 28k miles, replaced on warranty, and then again at around 48k (currently has 52k), and despite having a warranty, I'm so sick of dealing with Ram dealerships waiting and appointment nonsense, that I didn't even want to bother with a new OEM manifold that would likely crack again. So, I've heard shorty headers can solve this issue? I'm looking at a set of AFE shorty headers to replace mine stock manifold. Just a few questions, if anybody would be so kind to help out:

(1) Is shorty headers a good solution, as compared to sanding the manifold down? Or, what about just living with the crack and leak? It only makes the noise for a minute until everything warms up.

(2) How difficult is the install DIY? The shop I usually take my truck to stopped working on anything not stock. My wrenching skills are beginner to intermediate--I've installed new suspensions on all my trucks, and done simple things like COI install, oxygen sensors, things like that. Not sure if installing shorty headers is over my head or not.

(3) Once shorty headers are installed, is it worth it to also add a nicer cat back after market exhaust, or should I just stick with my stock cat back and muffler system? I was thinking the shorty headers will make my truck sound a lot nicer, and an aftermarket cat back system would make it ever better. Or would that start pushing it into the too loud category? I know this is subjective and everybody has their own preferences, but I'm curious to hear what yours are.

Thanks!

 

[Riccochet]

1. Great solution. I'd also suggest getting a set of ARP bolt or studs or Stage 8 locking bolt, and new collector hardware. And some high temp anti-seize for the new hardware.

2. Not hard, just time consuming. Especially if you snap a bolt when removing the old manifolds. Or if one is already broken you'll likely need a welder to weld a nut on to what's left of the bolt so you can remove it. Easiest to pull the wheel and wheel well liner to get access through there. Passenger side is a piece of cake, driver side requires some finagling to get the old log out and new shorty in. Some people disconnect the steering shaft for added room. I was able to do it without doing that, but if I did it again I'd probably just disconnect the steering.

3. Is up to you. The shorty's sound a little better, but not much. People mainly do the shorty's to avoid further broken exhaust bolts.

 

[Wild one]

Do not use Stage 8 locking fasteners,they have a habit of rattling causing the knock sensors to pull timing.Plus if you ever have to remove or re-torque the headers,you'll be looking for the guy who sold you the stage 8's with a big hammer,lol.
There's nothing wrong with the bolts that come with most headers,you're only torquing the bolts to 20 lb-ft,so you don't need to spend money on ARP bolts.
Use Remflex 6022 gaskets,if the AFE's don't already come with them.
Buy lots of beer and band-aids,odds are you'll leak a little ,and the beer will help numb the pain,lol

 

[rzr6-4]

I had to do mine twice. First time I had to remove a broken bolt. Ended up taking about 8hrs total, 4 of which was just getting that f*****g bolt out. Ended up buying and installing the wrong gasket and had to do it again. With no broken bolts and knowing what I was doing it only took 2 or 3 hours that time.

I've read that shorties can be an easy fix but I haven't seen any large sample sizes yet so idk.

 

[Lamarsh]

1. Great solution.

Thanks a ton. Aside from the increased performance, do you also have some input on shorties vs. long catted headers? I'm not interested in long headers that do away with the cat, but I am eyeing catted longs. I imagine any kind of longs would require a mechanic and not worth DIYing.

 

[Lamarsh]

Use Remflex 6022 gaskets,if the AFE's don't already come with them.

If I go with shorties, I was leaning towards the ceramic JBAs. Would you still recommend different gaskets with those?

Buy lots of beer and band-aids,odds are you'll leak a little ,and the beer will help numb the pain,lol

I had to do mine twice. First time I had to remove a broken bolt. Ended up taking about 8hrs total, 4 of which was just getting that f*****g bolt out. Ended up buying and installing the wrong gasket and had to do it again. With no broken bolts and knowing what I was doing it only took 2 or 3 hours that time.

This is why this time around I might pick my battle and find a mech to do it for me. For one, I don't have a ton of spare time, and two I'd rather just avoid hours and hours of screwing around. My last full suspension install I did a year ago should have taken 4 hours, but it was almost 16 due to seized bolts and a handful of other unexpecteds. Sometimes a mechanics hourly pay is the more practical solution.

 

[Lamarsh]

1. Great solution.

I had to do mine twice.

One more question I didn't address in my OP. After installing aftermarket headers, I've heard some tuning greatly improves the performance of the new headers, and some even claim it's arguably necessary. Any of you know about that? If so, is that just done with a normal way of access the BCM such as AlphaOBD? If that's the case, if you know of any sources that would show how to tweak the computer on AlphaOBD to tune for new headers, that would be awesome.

Thanks for everybody's help, I really appreciate it.

 

[Wild one]

One more question I didn't address in my OP. After installing aftermarket headers, I've heard some tuning greatly improves the performance of the new headers, and some even claim it's arguably necessary. Any of you know about that? If so, is that just done with a normal way of access the BCM such as AlphaOBD? If that's the case, if you know of any sources that would show how to tweak the computer on AlphaOBD to tune for new headers, that would be awesome.

Thanks for everybody's help, I really appreciate it.

If your truck is a 2020,you'll need to either buy an unlocked PCM or have your PCM unlocked,and you'll need the bypass cable,before you can tune it.And no AlphaOBD doesn't give you any tuning options,you're stuck with HP or Diablo,with HP being the preferred tuner these days.There's not many tuners still tuning with Diablo anymore,plus Diablo has been known to brick PCM's.
I don't think JBA is still making long tubes for the trucks anymore,but i might be wrong.
You can run catted long tubes with-out a tune,but you won't get the most out of them,but they are far superior to shorties as far as creating bottom end torque and making power up top.Shorties don't make torque,and don't really create much power up top,if anybody tells you shorties make torque walk away from them "quickly",lol.
I'd seriously look into wrapping what ever set you settle on. I'd rather replace a set of headers every dozen years,then fix hoses/wiring/steering knuckles every 1/2 dozen years that have degraded from the heat that the headers radiate into the engine bay

 

[Riccochet]

Thanks a ton. Aside from the increased performance, do you also have some input on shorties vs. long catted headers? I'm not interested in long headers that do away with the cat, but I am eyeing catted longs. I imagine any kind of longs would require a mechanic and not worth DIYing.

I've only ran the JBA shorty's. So not sure on the long tubes. ARH makes a full long tube kit that comes with the long tube headers, cat's and Y pipe. Kinda pricey. No mechanic needed for them, but the install is a bit more complicated. Still a bolt on solution.

As for tuning, ehhh, you really don't need it with the shorty's. If anything they'll be good for a couple extra ponies on top of tuning alone. They definitely flow a bit better than the stock logs. Tuning is the best bang for the buck performance mod you can do, and really needed if you plan on modding beyond just the headers. Kiss any warranty goodbye though.

 

[Lamarsh]

1. Great solution. I'd also suggest getting a set of ARP bolt or studs or Stage 8 locking bolt, and new collector hardware. And some high temp anti-seize for the new hardware.

I've read that shorties can be an easy fix

Ok so I have learned a new fact that might change things. I'm at 52k miles, and I thought my powertrain warranty expired at 50k, but it is in fact good until 60k. Assuming a cracked manifold is covered under powertrain, I can choose to just get another OEM manifold installed under warranty for a second time... but, aren't I right in assuming it's way more likely than not that it will crack again? What are the chances I get it replaced a second time and it does NOT crack again? I think slim. Anyways, what do you guys think about having it warrantied again with a stock manifold, versus just scraping that idea and just doing it with shorty headers and expecting this manifold cracking issue to be resolved for good?

I have made some inquiry and effort into seeing if Ram would warranty the labor and let me bring in a shorty header for them to install, but my expectations of getting that approved is very low.

 

[Riccochet]

Ok so I have learned a new fact that might change things. I'm at 52k miles, and I thought my powertrain warranty expired at 50k, but it is in fact good until 60k. Assuming a cracked manifold is covered under powertrain, I can choose to just get another OEM manifold installed under warranty for a second time... but, aren't I right in assuming it's way more likely than not that it will crack again? What are the chances I get it replaced a second time and it does NOT crack again? I think slim. Anyways, what do you guys think about having it warrantied again with a stock manifold, versus just scraping that idea and just doing it with shorty headers and expecting this manifold cracking issue to be resolved for good?

I have made some inquiry and effort into seeing if Ram would warranty the labor and let me bring in a shorty header for them to install, but my expectations of getting that approved is very low.

Legally, exhaust manifolds are covered by the Clean Air Act for 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever comes first. Almost every part of the emissions system is covered.

I would let the dealer replace them.

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[Lamarsh]

Legally, exhaust manifolds are covered by the Clean Air Act for 8 years or 80,000 miles, whichever comes first. Almost every part of the emissions system is covered.

I would let the dealer replace them.

Frequent Questions related to Transportation, Air Pollution, and Climate Change | US EPA

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Thanks. I didn't know about that. I looked into it, and the one bit of additional red tape to that warranty appears to be that you have to show evidence you failed a government mandated emissions test in order for them to be required to warranty something like a cracked manifold. I'm unsure whether a cracked manifold in and of itself would cause me to fail an emissions test here in Michigan.

 

[Riccochet]

Thanks. I didn't know about that. I looked into it, and the one bit of additional red tape to that warranty appears to be that you have to show evidence you failed a government mandated emissions test in order for them to be required to warranty something like a cracked manifold. I'm unsure whether a cracked manifold in and of itself would cause me to fail an emissions test here in Michigan.

I've had manifolds replaced under the clean air act twice on a Nissan Titan. No questions asked. If it's a faulty part of the emission system it should be covered.

 

[Hirst404]

My 2016 Ram Outdoorsman has 120,000 miles on it and was on its third set of manifolds and it cracked once again. I just replaced them this week with the AFE shorties hoping it will solve the problem long term. I will know more in a year to 18 months... that is usually how long the manifolds lasted. One thing to look out for: My mechanic shop did not connect the shorties to the factory exhaust well and it sounded awful and leaked under acceleration. They had to get back in there and redo it. I paid about $700 bucks for installation - more than I anticipated. There were multiple bolts broken off on both sides. If I was under warranty, I would just have the dealer install new manifolds and plan on an alternative after the warranty is up.

 

[Ramfanski]

If you have any warranty, won’t the tune that is required for headers screw with the warranty?

 

[Wild one]

If you have any warranty, won’t the tune that is required for headers screw with the warranty?

You can run both shorties and long tubes with-out a tune,you just won't get all the power that's available from them.

 

[78Staff]

Mine are starting to make the noise, just over 80K...figures. Anyway went the "the" Exhaust shop in town, was quoted $400 labor for each side to fix/replace, plus parts of course. Suprised me a bit b/c the book labor is just over 3 hours doing both sides. I guess they are incorporating the broken bolt work in for a flat rate. Good thing, doesn't matter if 1 or 8 bolts are *****'d, the rate is $400 per side.

Out of curiousity, I stopped by dealer for a comparison. Thier quote was $2000 bascially, using all factory parts, ie replacing with oem manifolds, bolts, etc. NOT including any work required due to broken off bolts - so the price wouls actually be even more.

TBH at this point its almost a no-brainer to go with a set of shorty's, some ARP bolts and the factory gasket/heat shield. I can bring all those parts to S&S, pay them the $800 labor and be done with it (for the near future anyway).

Just have to decide do I want to put that much money into it. It's a '16, and is in otherwise good shape, but not sure how much longer I will keep it. Same reason I haven't put a camper shell on it - as soon as I do it, I'll find some other truck 6 mo later and want to upgrade lol...

 

[Wild one]

Mine are starting to make the noise, just over 80K...figures. Anyway went the "the" Exhaust shop in town, was quoted $400 labor for each side to fix/replace, plus parts of course. Suprised me a bit b/c the book labor is just over 3 hours doing both sides. I guess they are incorporating the broken bolt work in for a flat rate. Good thing, doesn't matter if 1 or 8 bolts are *****'d, the rate is $400 per side.

Out of curiousity, I stopped by dealer for a comparison. Thier quote was $2000 bascially, using all factory parts, ie replacing with oem manifolds, bolts, etc. NOT including any work required due to broken off bolts - so the price wouls actually be even more.

TBH at this point its almost a no-brainer to go with a set of shorty's, some ARP bolts and the factory gasket/heat shield. I can bring all those parts to S&S, pay them the $800 labor and be done with it (for the near future anyway).

Just have to decide do I want to put that much money into it. It's a '16, and is in otherwise good shape, but not sure how much longer I will keep it. Same reason I haven't put a camper shell on it - as soon as I do it, I'll find some other truck 6 mo later and want to upgrade lol...

If you do decide to do shorties,swap the gaskets out for a set of Remflex 6022's.They'll absorb alot more misalignment then the stock gaskets ,plus don't usually require constant retorquing like a stock gasket will.

 

[78Staff]

Thanks, will check them out. Trying to decide on shorties, there's a few options out there from the $300 to $1000+ range basically. I would be leaning more towards the budget side - not the cheapest, but not 1K either. Seem like a few years ago there were only really two brands, now there seem to be several options.

 

[Musky Mike]

If it is still under warranty, I would let the dealer repair it. That way you won't have to deal with any broken studs if you decide to go shortly headers later. Second, shorty headers are not really going to add any power over the stock manifolds, your going to pay a lot of money to unlock the PCM and install a custom tune for maybe a few horsepower that most likely you won't feel when you drive it. Save your money and just do the shorty header for reliability.