Manifold cracked AGAIN--shorty headers install advice

[Lamarsh]

My manifold has cracked yet again on my 2020 Rebel. It first cracked at 28k miles, replaced on warranty, and then again at around 48k (currently has 52k), and despite having a warranty, I'm so sick of dealing with Ram dealerships waiting and appointment nonsense, that I didn't even want to bother with a new OEM manifold that would likely crack again. So, I've heard shorty headers can solve this issue? I'm looking at a set of AFE shorty headers to replace mine stock manifold. Just a few questions, if anybody would be so kind to help out:

(1) Is shorty headers a good solution, as compared to sanding the manifold down? Or, what about just living with the crack and leak? It only makes the noise for a minute until everything warms up.

(2) How difficult is the install DIY? The shop I usually take my truck to stopped working on anything not stock. My wrenching skills are beginner to intermediate--I've installed new suspensions on all my trucks, and done simple things like COI install, oxygen sensors, things like that. Not sure if installing shorty headers is over my head or not.

(3) Once shorty headers are installed, is it worth it to also add a nicer cat back after market exhaust, or should I just stick with my stock cat back and muffler system? I was thinking the shorty headers will make my truck sound a lot nicer, and an aftermarket cat back system would make it ever better. Or would that start pushing it into the too loud category? I know this is subjective and everybody has their own preferences, but I'm curious to hear what yours are.

Thanks!

 

[Riccochet]

1. Great solution. I'd also suggest getting a set of ARP bolt or studs or Stage 8 locking bolt, and new collector hardware. And some high temp anti-seize for the new hardware.

2. Not hard, just time consuming. Especially if you snap a bolt when removing the old manifolds. Or if one is already broken you'll likely need a welder to weld a nut on to what's left of the bolt so you can remove it. Easiest to pull the wheel and wheel well liner to get access through there. Passenger side is a piece of cake, driver side requires some finagling to get the old log out and new shorty in. Some people disconnect the steering shaft for added room. I was able to do it without doing that, but if I did it again I'd probably just disconnect the steering.

3. Is up to you. The shorty's sound a little better, but not much. People mainly do the shorty's to avoid further broken exhaust bolts.

 

[Wild one]

Do not use Stage 8 locking fasteners,they have a habit of rattling causing the knock sensors to pull timing.Plus if you ever have to remove or re-torque the headers,you'll be looking for the guy who sold you the stage 8's with a big hammer,lol.
There's nothing wrong with the bolts that come with most headers,you're only torquing the bolts to 20 lb-ft,so you don't need to spend money on ARP bolts.
Use Remflex 6022 gaskets,if the AFE's don't already come with them.
Buy lots of beer and band-aids,odds are you'll leak a little ,and the beer will help numb the pain,lol

 

[rzr6-4]

I had to do mine twice. First time I had to remove a broken bolt. Ended up taking about 8hrs total, 4 of which was just getting that f*****g bolt out. Ended up buying and installing the wrong gasket and had to do it again. With no broken bolts and knowing what I was doing it only took 2 or 3 hours that time.

I've read that shorties can be an easy fix but I haven't seen any large sample sizes yet so idk.

 

[Lamarsh]

1. Great solution.

Thanks a ton. Aside from the increased performance, do you also have some input on shorties vs. long catted headers? I'm not interested in long headers that do away with the cat, but I am eyeing catted longs. I imagine any kind of longs would require a mechanic and not worth DIYing.

 

[Lamarsh]

Use Remflex 6022 gaskets,if the AFE's don't already come with them.

If I go with shorties, I was leaning towards the ceramic JBAs. Would you still recommend different gaskets with those?

Buy lots of beer and band-aids,odds are you'll leak a little ,and the beer will help numb the pain,lol

I had to do mine twice. First time I had to remove a broken bolt. Ended up taking about 8hrs total, 4 of which was just getting that f*****g bolt out. Ended up buying and installing the wrong gasket and had to do it again. With no broken bolts and knowing what I was doing it only took 2 or 3 hours that time.

This is why this time around I might pick my battle and find a mech to do it for me. For one, I don't have a ton of spare time, and two I'd rather just avoid hours and hours of screwing around. My last full suspension install I did a year ago should have taken 4 hours, but it was almost 16 due to seized bolts and a handful of other unexpecteds. Sometimes a mechanics hourly pay is the more practical solution.

 

[Lamarsh]

1. Great solution.

I had to do mine twice.

One more question I didn't address in my OP. After installing aftermarket headers, I've heard some tuning greatly improves the performance of the new headers, and some even claim it's arguably necessary. Any of you know about that? If so, is that just done with a normal way of access the BCM such as AlphaOBD? If that's the case, if you know of any sources that would show how to tweak the computer on AlphaOBD to tune for new headers, that would be awesome.

Thanks for everybody's help, I really appreciate it.

 

[Wild one]

One more question I didn't address in my OP. After installing aftermarket headers, I've heard some tuning greatly improves the performance of the new headers, and some even claim it's arguably necessary. Any of you know about that? If so, is that just done with a normal way of access the BCM such as AlphaOBD? If that's the case, if you know of any sources that would show how to tweak the computer on AlphaOBD to tune for new headers, that would be awesome.

Thanks for everybody's help, I really appreciate it.

If your truck is a 2020,you'll need to either buy an unlocked PCM or have your PCM unlocked,and you'll need the bypass cable,before you can tune it.And no AlphaOBD doesn't give you any tuning options,you're stuck with HP or Diablo,with HP being the preferred tuner these days.There's not many tuners still tuning with Diablo anymore,plus Diablo has been known to brick PCM's.
I don't think JBA is still making long tubes for the trucks anymore,but i might be wrong.
You can run catted long tubes with-out a tune,but you won't get the most out of them,but they are far superior to shorties as far as creating bottom end torque and making power up top.Shorties don't make torque,and don't really create much power up top,if anybody tells you shorties make torque walk away from them "quickly",lol.
I'd seriously look into wrapping what ever set you settle on. I'd rather replace a set of headers every dozen years,then fix hoses/wiring/steering knuckles every 1/2 dozen years that have degraded from the heat that the headers radiate into the engine bay

 

[Riccochet]

Thanks a ton. Aside from the increased performance, do you also have some input on shorties vs. long catted headers? I'm not interested in long headers that do away with the cat, but I am eyeing catted longs. I imagine any kind of longs would require a mechanic and not worth DIYing.

I've only ran the JBA shorty's. So not sure on the long tubes. ARH makes a full long tube kit that comes with the long tube headers, cat's and Y pipe. Kinda pricey. No mechanic needed for them, but the install is a bit more complicated. Still a bolt on solution.

As for tuning, ehhh, you really don't need it with the shorty's. If anything they'll be good for a couple extra ponies on top of tuning alone. They definitely flow a bit better than the stock logs. Tuning is the best bang for the buck performance mod you can do, and really needed if you plan on modding beyond just the headers. Kiss any warranty goodbye though.

 

[Lamarsh]

1. Great solution. I'd also suggest getting a set of ARP bolt or studs or Stage 8 locking bolt, and new collector hardware. And some high temp anti-seize for the new hardware.

I've read that shorties can be an easy fix

Ok so I have learned a new fact that might change things. I'm at 52k miles, and I thought my powertrain warranty expired at 50k, but it is in fact good until 60k. Assuming a cracked manifold is covered under powertrain, I can choose to just get another OEM manifold installed under warranty for a second time... but, aren't I right in assuming it's way more likely than not that it will crack again? What are the chances I get it replaced a second time and it does NOT crack again? I think slim. Anyways, what do you guys think about having it warrantied again with a stock manifold, versus just scraping that idea and just doing it with shorty headers and expecting this manifold cracking issue to be resolved for good?

I have made some inquiry and effort into seeing if Ram would warranty the labor and let me bring in a shorty header for them to install, but my expectations of getting that approved is very low.