Muffler swap or full catback??

[raydenn403]

Hey all.

Been a few months since ive done a mod and just itching to get some new stuff on the RAM.

Currently sitting stock with the 3" in / 2.5 Duals out.

I have an S&B sitting in the garage waiting for an exhaust mod but cant decide.

Is there any big benefits from doing a full cat back over just a **** swap?

A few ive seen yall talking about has been Magnaflow and Mufflex?

Im somewhat interested in the following mufflers/catbacks

Magnaflow / Mufflex
Borla XS
MBRP Catback
Flowmaster
Corsa

Any input ill take

 

[12 Ram Express]

Main difference is cost but if the cat back is all mandrel bent nice same diameter throughout its going to flow better than just swapping your muffler all the cat backs I've looked at eliminated the rear resonators too cat backs are a little more involved to install but still not hard muffler swaps are very easy as long as they r direct bolt ons. It's just mainly going to depend on how much u want to spend and time to install and the exact sound you want

 

[B-Shot]

If budget is an issue, your stock exhaust is stainless and will last a long time so you can pick the muffler you want and install.

 

[Heywood]

Performance or noise? Very few will give you any performance gains. Cat backs are a complimentary addition to other mods.

Generally cat backs will have very little or no drone as it's a complete system. Some will have resonators, some will not.

Cost is the other factor.

Mufflers are cheapest, not tuned to your resonators, offer no performance gains. Just the sound you like. Nothing wrong with that if that's all your doing. You may get a lot of drone or a little. Depends how tolerant you are to it. I'm not.

Not all cat backs are equal and the costs reflect that. If your planning any performance mods down the road, you might want to look there so you're not doing it twice.

Corsa makes 2 systems for our trucks. They are pretty much near the top range for a cat back. They have absolutely zero drone. They flow great and do add a little performance without supporting mods. Best you might see is 6 to 8 hp and 8 to 10 tq at the wheels. They also are the maker of the Mopar performance exhausts. The Corsa DB uses 409 SS and the normal Corsa uses 304 SS. That's why you see the cost difference.

I have the Corsa on my car and can attest to zero drone.

I run the Stainlessworks 3" cat back with the "S" type mufflers on my Ram. I'm also running multiple mods to support it upstream. (Tuner,Intake, TB, and headers).

Sound is subjective. If your not going over the top, just buy what sounds best to you. Beware of drone.

If you are going towards the performance side, the only cat back I would stay away from is the Flowmaster system. Their muffler drop ins are fine, but I'm not a fan of their Cat back systems. Just personal opinion.

Which ever way you go, make sure you get a tuner to shut the MDS down. I've yet to hear any aftermarket exhaust work that sounds good when it kicks in.

 

[pld]

You are so right!

 

[raydenn403]

Hmm thats a good read Heywood.

Currently im running the performance tune witb 91 octane with the BD Hemi Plus and MDS is disabled.

Sitting in garage is my S&B intake ready to be put in

Other than that im just running basically a lifted stock truck lol.

Im going for just a better sounding truck. As it is right now when its running and driving all i can really hear is engine. Wich is fine but i want it to personally sound bada$$. Less drone would be better.

Not to loud where you cant hear your own music. But just enough to make heads turn.

My budget can vary to whatever i want but since the truck comes with stock duals was just seeing if just a muffler swap would make all the difference, since id pay hundreds more for tailpipes ect i already have?just looking to get an opinion on whos running what.

Also a ypipe swap, pretty much that just installs where the 2 manifolds come together?

 

[Heywood]

You're on the right track.

What sounds good to you, may not be to my liking.

Find what you like, as your the one paying for it and has to live with it every day.

I like to be a little different than all the others out there. Unfortunately being unique comes with a higher price tag.

 

[doz]

Performance or noise? Very few will give you any performance gains. Cat backs are a complimentary addition to other mods.

Generally cat backs will have very little or no drone as it's a complete system. Some will have resonators, some will not.

Cost is the other factor.

Mufflers are cheapest, not tuned to your resonators, offer no performance gains. Just the sound you like. Nothing wrong with that if that's all your doing. You may get a lot of drone or a little. Depends how tolerant you are to it. I'm not.

Not all cat backs are equal and the costs reflect that. If your planning any performance mods down the road, you might want to look there so you're not doing it twice.

Corsa makes 2 systems for our trucks. They are pretty much near the top range for a cat back. They have absolutely zero drone. They flow great and do add a little performance without supporting mods. Best you might see is 6 to 8 hp and 8 to 10 tq at the wheels. They also are the maker of the Mopar performance exhausts. The Corsa DB uses 409 SS and the normal Corsa uses 304 SS. That's why you see the cost difference.

I have the Corsa on my car and can attest to zero drone.

I run the Stainlessworks 3" cat back with the "S" type mufflers on my Ram. I'm also running multiple mods to support it upstream. (Tuner,Intake, TB, and headers).

Sound is subjective. If your not going over the top, just buy what sounds best to you. Beware of drone.

If you are going towards the performance side, the only cat back I would stay away from is the Flowmaster system. Their muffler drop ins are fine, but I'm not a fan of their Cat back systems. Just personal opinion.

Which ever way you go, make sure you get a tuner to shut the MDS down. I've yet to hear any aftermarket exhaust work that sounds good when it kicks in.

Care to explain how a "catback" system improves performance where just swapping out the muffler does not? Most of the "catback" systems are not true cat-backs and bolt up where the factory muffler bolts on (I believe the only system that is a true cat-back is the one that comes with the SW headers). At that point, the only thing removed that could possibly limit power is the resonators which you wont see any gains by removing those. Every cat-back I have seen is 3" in, 2.5" out just like the factory piping. None of them are removing the factory y-pipe which is one of the main choke points and the part of the system that NEEDS to be replaced.

 

[pld]

Care to explain how a "catback" system improves performance where just swapping out the muffler does not? Most of the "catback" systems are not true cat-backs and bolt up where the factory muffler bolts on (I believe the only system that is a true cat-back is the one that comes with the SW headers). At that point, the only thing removed that could possibly limit power is the resonators which you wont see any gains by removing those. Every cat-back I have seen is 3" in, 2.5" out just like the factory piping. None of them are removing the factory y-pipe which is one of the main choke points and the part of the system that NEEDS to be replaced.

I agree but our factory system's are 3" in and 2 1/4" diameter tail pipes out.

 

[doz]

Even still, you wont gain much if anything.. You are restricting the system WAY before the muffler. That smashed y-pipe into the 3" pipe is creating much more of an issue than the 2 1/4" (I thought it was 2.5" myself but I guess I was wrong) dual out from the muffler.

 

[Heywood]

Care to explain how a "catback" system improves performance where just swapping out the muffler does not? Most of the "catback" systems are not true cat-backs and bolt up where the factory muffler bolts on (I believe the only system that is a true cat-back is the one that comes with the SW headers). At that point, the only thing removed that could possibly limit power is the resonators which you wont see any gains by removing those. Every cat-back I have seen is 3" in, 2.5" out just like the factory piping. None of them are removing the factory y-pipe which is one of the main choke points and the part of the system that NEEDS to be replaced.

I have the SW system. No resonators. 3" from the cats back with 5" tips. Better flowing chambered mufflers. 2 of them, not 1 like stock.

You get what you pay for.

My Corsa on my car does come with resonators. Full 2.75" system. Tuned with each other to increase flow, savaging, sound, and more importantly eliminate drone. Different application and different requirements of the vehicle, so its not the best comparison, but I wouldn't expect much difference as that's what Corsa is known for.

Again, you get what you pay for.

You also can not just buy Corsa mufflers. Its the complete system or nothing.

Having an extra large system isn't always a good thing. Its not so much flow, but the systems efficiency to pull the spent (scavenging) gasses from the cylinders.

I agree. The Y is a restriction, but its way down below the factory exhaust manifold, the cats themselves, single muffler, and dual resonators.

As I stated, buy whatever exhaust you like for the sound you want. The cat backs are a complementary part of a larger system. You need the other parts of the system to get the full advantage. There's lots of independent dyno's and test that show the advantages or disadvantages of each system performance wise.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. It just what I've tried, researched, for what I want. I just like to go with what's proven (to my satisfaction), once, rather than spend more going through multiple cheaper fixes.

If I'm not getting a performance advantage from it, I'm not interested. I won't even put a better looking rim on my car unless it just as good or lighter than my factory Alcoa's.

Buy what you like or what works for you, and you'll never be disappointed.

 

[doz]

But you keep saying cat-back like you are actually getting a "cat-back" system when you are not. Your system is a "cat-back" due to the fact that you have headers. For those who do not have long tube headers, there is no true cat-back system available.

The y-restriction is after the cats yes, but its prior to the muffler and all these available "cat-back" systems are bolting up where the factory muffler bolts up. I really do not see how you can claim there is more of a performance gain from a cat-back system over just replacing the muffler unless you are going w/ long tubes that replace the factory Y-pipe (or have done the y-pipe mod yourself).

 

[Heywood]

But you keep saying cat-back like you are actually getting a "cat-back" system when you are not. Your system is a "cat-back" due to the fact that you have headers. For those who do not have long tube headers, there is no true cat-back system available.

The y-restriction is after the cats yes, but its prior to the muffler and all these available "cat-back" systems are bolting up where the factory muffler bolts up. I really do not see how you can claim there is more of a performance gain from a cat-back system over just replacing the muffler unless you are going w/ long tubes that replace the factory Y-pipe (or have done the y-pipe mod yourself).

Lol... ok sounds good.

 

[Heywood]

In the true sense of the word, your right, a true cat back is exactly that. From the catyletic converters to the ends of the tips.

 

[RamRodRic]

There's lots of independent dyno's and test that show the advantages or disadvantages of each system performance wise.

sorry for the hack-job Heywood.....but this is of major interest to me. i'd like to find some dyno's where ppl did back to back comparisons. sotp is worthless in my book because each "****" is calibrated differently. a lot of "gee, it sounds faster so it MUST be". you get the picture?
i don't care for worthless noise. if it isn't supported by a SAE corrected dyno and/or track mph's...it's a waste of time and $$, imho.
shoot me some links plz

 

[Heywood]

sorry for the hack-job Heywood.....but this is of major interest to me. i'd like to find some dyno's where ppl did back to back comparisons. sotp is worthless in my book because each "****" is calibrated differently. a lot of "gee, it sounds faster so it MUST be". you get the picture?
i don't care for worthless noise. if it isn't supported by a SAE corrected dyno and/or track mph's...it's a waste of time and $$, imho.
shoot me some links plz

Sure, ill look around and see what I can find.
Take look around the various Challenger forums as well. Some of the mods on the 5.7's RT's relate to the Rams. Outside of the fuel rails, cam, tune, and intake, they are very similar.

 

[doz]

Sure, ill look around and see what I can find.
Take look around the various Challenger forums as well. Some of the mods on the 5.7's RT's relate to the Rams. Outside of the fuel rails, cam, tune, and intake, they are very similar.

And it seems like full exhaust including a new y-pipe is netting them about 5-10 rwhp but that includes a new y-pipe. You have headers so Im sure you have looked down our stock y-pipe, if not I can post up a picture lol. Its horrible and a complete flow killer. And that gain is also with headers so I am sure with the stock manifolds, the number will be lower as flow is not as good from the beginning.

Im not trying to discredit the need for a full system here, but it does not give the gains people expect, at least not on our trucks as the stock exhaust from the y-pipe back is pretty decent compared to some vehicles. I would only say you see a benefit to a full system after headers + new y-pipe. Otherwise, its about like a CAI and at that point, you might as well just change the muffler as you are not gaining anything without at minimum a new y-pipe.

 

[Heywood]

I agree. Mines gone as well.

And looking at your mods, you already know that he will not not be getting the full benefit unless you go ahead with an intake, larger TB, Tune, Headers.

Which was sort of the simple explanation that I gave the OP to his original question. Would it matter which way he went.... and why.

If it's just sound, a mufflers fine. Pick what ever you like. If your going to mod further, pay once, get a good quality system if you'd like to get what you can out of the upstream mods.

The rest can come later. So far he has an intake and wants a little more rumble. He may never go as far as you and I have doz.

We could bury him in LT's vs. shorties.1 7/8 vs. 1 3/4. Ceramic coated vs. heat painted. Cats or catless. True duals vs. 2 into 1's, 80mm/85mm/87mm TB's. Vararam vs SB intakes. Bullydog vs. Diablo.... the list is long.

I didn't want to blow his head apart. Just a simple answer without getting too specific. The "Y" pipe suggestion is a good call. Your there anyways, might as well do it.

 

[raydenn403]

Heated debate! My mind is boggled lol!

As of what i read.. Im more just after the sound benefit. A lil more growl to her so you hear exhaust not engine.

Im not racing this truck its just all for personal preference and to make some heada turn rolling down the road.

So comin down to a conclusion. I should be buyinnnnnng...

1. New Y-Pipe
2. Catback system

Ive seen the MBRP Installer Series (as i like to install and do mods myself) but for something like that it should be welded no?

http://http://www.moes-performance.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=S5146AL

http://http://www.moes-performance.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=10778

 

[Heywood]

Yes weld the "y". The test of the exhaust should have a tack on the clamps.

Remember, we're in Alberta. I don't have to explain -40 to +35 weather and the effects of expansion/contraction to you.

For all your going to use it for, it seems a muffler swap would do the trick. Safe yourself some coin. Up to you.

Moe's is a good place to shop. I bought a tuner, intake, and ported TB from him and he only charged me $60 to ship it the Edmonton. No signature required. Another company wanted $139 to ship the same thing from Ontario.

See what Andy at Gotexhaust.com can do for you. Shipping is pricey to Canada. Even more so on a cat back system. Mine came in 2 big boxes.

I'm not really one to tell you what you should buy. Get all the info you can, then sound you like, and then decide what you want to do.

At the end of the day, your paying for it and only you have to live with it everyday.