Ram CEO Claims That 1500 Customers Prefer the HEMI V8 Over the Hurricane I6

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ram-ceo-claims-that-hemi-v8-demand-significantly-outpaces-the-hurricane-i6-262914.html

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yet..... J/K

Somebody has to be a test subject.....

Seriously, If you like it, that's all that matters.


My next-door neighbor has an ecoboost. Cost him a pretty penny when he got a coolant leak.

I read up on the history of the 3.7 ecoboost - the repair rate has gone way, way, down, but like I've said, it took Ford 15 years to make the damned thing work beyond 100,000 miles. A buddy of mine, who is sort of a naive mechanical engineer, bought one a year or so ago. He doesn't tow heavy, but so far he likes it. He's the kind of guy who was expert in his field of work, but didn't read about much else.

Of course it has lots of power and good mileage........unloaded. lol

 

[mikeru]

My next-door neighbor has an ecoboost. Cost him a pretty penny when he got a coolant leak.

I read up on the history of the 3.7 ecoboost - the repair rate has gone way, way, down, but like I've said, it took Ford 15 years to make the damned thing work beyond 100,000 miles. A buddy of mine, who is sort of a naive mechanical engineer, bought one a year or so ago. He doesn't tow heavy, but so far he likes it. He's the kind of guy who was expert in his field of work, but didn't read about much else.

Of course it has lots of power and good mileage........unloaded. lol

My 2014 F150 has the 3.5 EcoBoost engine (Probably a typo but they don't make a 3.7 EB). Truck has 140k miles and hasn't had the engine touched other than regular maintenance. The transmission is a different story with the molded lead frame disaster. But I've been very pleasantly surprised at how well the engine works in that truck. The only thing I ever tow with it is our golf cart. So it's never been used hard.

 

[Grams]

I know higher mileage examples than that, even the little 2.7. And I own a 3.5 eco. Same thing with the ford 10 speed, which I also have. You hear about problems, but there's probably 10 people out there with no issues for every bad post you see. People don't usually take to the internet to post about having no trouble, they usually do when they have trouble. I stand by that philosophy.

I have found that to be True also. If you rely upon OnLine Forums as the Primary source for information on a vehicle…. You’ll find the whiners-and-worriers to be a major portion of the discussions. This Forum is no different.

HOWEVER, it IS useful to see what the problem-areas are.

The newest Rams are troubled more than previous generations in their electronics more than anything “basic mechanical”, is my impression.
Yes, there was an “uptick’ in engine issues (for example the 5.7 Hemi hasn’t been as durable as the Run-Forever 318 V8…. but it has certain advantages that 318 never had…and when MDS works as designed….it does a good job. The guys who tried to defeat it became the loudest complainers when their attempts backfired.)

At least that’s the impression left with me.

I couldn’t wait to get one that isn’t messed-with, and am very happy now. (I still miss my ‘64 Dodge 318 V8 tho’…)

 

[HEMIMANN]

My 2014 F150 has the 3.5 EcoBoost engine (Probably a typo but they don't make a 3.7 EB). Truck has 140k miles and hasn't had the engine touched other than regular maintenance. The transmission is a different story with the molded lead frame disaster. But I've been very pleasantly surprised at how well the engine works in that truck. The only thing I ever tow with it is our golf cart. So it's never been used hard.

Of course, 3.5 IDK why 3.7 sticks in my mind. Maybe it was the tow guys that were frying heat exchangers, egr's, etc?

 

[Docwagon1776]

Of course, 3.5 IDK why 3.7 sticks in my mind.

Maybe you're combining the 3.5 EB and 2.7 EB in your memory?

 

[Docwagon1776]

I have found that to be True also. If you rely upon OnLine Forums as the Primary source for information on a vehicle…. You’ll find the whiners-and-worriers to be a major portion of the discussions. This Forum is no different.

Yeah, you end up with a numerator but no denominator. I really miss having access to fleet data where you got both. Now I'm even more out of the loop as the service manager who was a friend of a friend got fired for, *get this*, being too honest with customers. Not too blunt, too honest. His crime was advising people to avoid the current build trucks due to massive wait times for parts when they break. I mean, I get it, it's not a great idea to tell people not to buy your boss's products...but it's still too funny that the answer is fire the truth tellers vs fix your problems.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Maybe you're combining the 3.5 EB and 2.7 EB in your memory?

Yep - that's it. I have a minor dyslexic tendency. Good thing I'm not designing bridges anymore, eh?

 

[EdGs]

I belong to the ADA, Dyslexics Against Drugs....lol

 

[Docwagon1776]

I belong to the ADA, Dyslexics Against Drugs....lol

 

[Islander39er]

Research the data bases and you will see elsewise. A frequency rate of 10% is considered a disaster in the world of 6 Sigma quality baseline. I know this from 33 years in design and manufacturing.

I'll admit I had to do some research about 6 sigma and think for a moment before I understood your point. I'm not sure what databases you're referring to, but I didn't mean to imply that 1 troublesome unit in 10 should be considered acceptable. Actually I somewhat plagiarized that philosophy from another thread somewhere, maybe I should have edited it more before I repeated it.
That said, I don't have much experience in design and manufacturing, but I do have years of experience participating in forums and such. The majority of posts I see are people trying to solve problems, or else just showing off their truck. And that's part of what forums are for. The "hey I have 300K with no major issues" posts exist, but they're usually in the minority.

Unfortunately, in the world of vehicles, especially in the age of rushed technology advances, I don't believe many models achieve near perfection. How many hemis have lifter problems? I'm just a layman, but my experience makes it seem like more than 10%. if anyone has actual data, I'd be interested to see. I won't complain if I'm wrong. For what it's worth, The one time I spoke about it with an experienced mechanic, he said "some of them have trouble with it and some of them don't." I'd translate that to "it's not a junk engine to be avoided at all costs, but be prepared that there's more than a tiny chance it'll need major work".

Right now every half ton truck on the market has some major drivetrain component (whether the component is one of multiple options or standard in every truck) that's known for problems often enough to weigh on a potential buyer's mind. Even toyota with their legendary reputation is having engine problems in their current trucks. In the case of multiple engines (or transmissions) available to choose from, there's plenty of people ready to claim each one is better than the others.
But if you want an engine with the reputation of the 300 I6, or the dodge 318, or the GM 350, you're out of luck until further notice.

I have found that to be True also. If you rely upon OnLine Forums as the Primary source for information on a vehicle…. You’ll find the whiners-and-worriers to be a major portion of the discussions. This Forum is no different.

HOWEVER, it IS useful to see what the problem-areas are.

The newest Rams are troubled more than previous generations in their electronics more than anything “basic mechanical”, is my impression.
Yes, there was an “uptick’ in engine issues (for example the 5.7 Hemi hasn’t been as durable as the Run-Forever 318 V8…. but it has certain advantages that 318 never had…and when MDS works as designed….it does a good job. The guys who tried to defeat it became the loudest complainers when their attempts backfired.)

At least that’s the impression left with me.

I couldn’t wait to get one that isn’t messed-with, and am very happy now. (I still miss my ‘64 Dodge 318 V8 tho’…)

MDS shuts off if the check engine light is on, and my check engine light is perpetually on nowadays. So I'm firing on all cylinders for better or worse.

I agree, most Forum posts will be useful to someone, whether it's issue related or otherwise. But if you overthink every known issue, you probably wouldn't buy any truck. And if you relied on other people's opinions on which engine is best, you'd never decide.

I'll admit I'm one of those people who likes to give something time to prove itself before I buy it. I've only bought used trucks up to now for several reasons, so I've had little trouble in that regard. I was one of those who doubted the dial shifter when it first arrived, but I've since realized I was wrong, albeit still preferring a lever for nostalgia and such.

honestly, the basic 3.6 v6 would likely be more than enough for my needs, and, though not without exceptions, it's the one I've personally heard the least horror stories about.

 

[Docwagon1776]

How many hemis have lifter problems? I'm just a layman, but my experience makes it seem like more than 10%.

That's the sort of thing you come up with when you have a numerator but no denominator.

All machines eventually break, but in a fleet with a few thousand of them running them up to 100k-150k in cars the failure rate is nowhere near that. That's with bulk semi-synthetic oil, 4500 mile OCI, and typically a lot of idle time.

We'd have sued the **** out of Dodge/Stellantis if 10% of the fleet was dead lined, just like the Indiana State Police did when the Durangos started making milkshakes with their oil coolers.

Electrical problems remain the biggest issue by far, even before the new architecture. 2019-2021 seems to be the peak of the quality builds, IMO.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yeah, I'm not gonna teach DFMA on a Forum. Newbs can research. I'm not gonna respond to ignorant statements.

Ram won't provide failure data. Wonder why?

TacTech provided his personal dealership data ~ 10% Hemi lifter/cam failure. Read about GM's L87 600,000+ engine recall for what - 100 or so failures?

C'mon.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Here....call if you have questions. I was certified at one time...

A Complete Guide to Six Sigma Defects Per Million (2025) - SixSigma.us

A Six Sigma process is defined as having 3.4 DPMO (Defects Per Million Opportunities). Achieve Process excellence with Six Sigma methodology.

www.6sigma.us

 

[Grams]

Here....call if you have questions. I was certified at one time...

A Complete Guide to Six Sigma Defects Per Million (2025) - SixSigma.us

A Six Sigma process is defined as having 3.4 DPMO (Defects Per Million Opportunities). Achieve Process excellence with Six Sigma methodology.

www.6sigma.us

I worked as a simulator Instructor-Pilot and Pilot Examiner at the DFW airport for ten years. The curriculum and simulated scenarios were/are strictly regulated and enforced. Instructors and Examiners have specific, regimented guidelines and performance guardrails. They are never in a position to deviate in any way from the curriculum and examination requirements.

However, someone in “corporate management” in the home-office apparently had a pay-bonus in-mind when he/she suggested the company require all employees…. Business managers, office personnel, outside-salesmen, customer-relations representatives, secretaries, maintenance personell…. even us IP/PE’s to certify 6-Sigma….and brought a 6-Sigma instructor-team to the facility at DFW. We All had to undergo the “treatment” .

It was Universally viewed with ridicule by us in the professional faculty who were prohibited from altering the Federally Regulated curriculum or methodology. We were specifically told we could Never resolve or allow a training or syllabus change request by the clients…We MUST ALWAYS refer them back to their customer representative. Absolutely NO exceptions.

It was joked about off-campus, that we were being. taught to question whether 6-oz styrofoam coffee cups in the cafeteria were appropriate…or if 8-oz cups might be better…. (that was the level of applicability the 6-Sigma training had to our jobs and our work product.)

One day, while walking into the cafeteria I spied a young woman who appeared as if she might be a client (pilot-in-training). She was sitting alone…and in-keeping with company policy…as an instructor, I walked over to her otherwise empty table and asked if I could join her. (we were often encouraged to make-welcome clients who appeared especially isolated, because we had many international clients who might feel isolated.)
She accepted. (at least she was cute)
She saw my uniform and asked the first question: “So, you are an Instructor Pilot here?”
“Yes”, I replied.
“What airplane are you teaching?”
I told her.
“Do you like that model?”, she continued.
I replied that I’d flown it a long time and enjoyed it, but that I teach and examine in several different types.
“Is that what you’re instructing in today?”, she asked.

“No,… Today…in fact, all this week, I’m actually being a student.”

“What are you being taught?”, she cont’d.

“I am attending some required corporate training.”

“What training..? Do you like it?”, she asked.

“Actually…No. I’m not enjoying it. It doesn’t apply in the Least to my job description, and I’m actually prohibited from following whats being promoted. I’m having to attend a completely ridiculous course called “Six-Sigma! It may be the biggest waste-of-time-and-money this company has ever spent, in my opinion, whoever suggested this to the company should have their Head Examined”. I thought that since I can’t talk much more about it without being more vocal about its foolishness, I’d change the subject….
…
…”So, what airplane are you here for?”, I asked her.

“I’m not here as a client. I’m here from Montreal and I’m the Director and company-lead for the Six-Sigma Courses you are taking.”

 

[Islander39er]

That's the sort of thing you come up with when you have a numerator but no denominator.

All machines eventually break, but in a fleet with a few thousand of them running them up to 100k-150k in cars the failure rate is nowhere near that. That's with bulk semi-synthetic oil, 4500 mile OCI, and typically a lot of idle time.

We'd have sued the **** out of Dodge/Stellantis if 10% of the fleet was dead lined, just like the Indiana State Police did when the Durangos started making milkshakes with their oil coolers.

Electrical problems remain the biggest issue by far, even before the new architecture. 2019-2021 seems to be the peak of the quality builds, IMO.

Okay, point taken. I'm not on a mission to prove they're junk - I own one, and I don't want it to fail. But I've heard enough warnings and horror stories to make it sound like at least several per hundred have problems. If that's an exaggeration, that only proves my point about the bad stories standing out more than the good.

On the other hand, poor maintenance doesn't help anything, and that's probably a contributing factor in many of the failure cases. I've also been told using pure conventional oil increases the likelihood. I've never bothered to properly research that point a whole lot, but I do know that one of the couple trucks I've personally known to have the cam failure had been using conventional.

Yeah, I'm not gonna teach DFMA on a Forum. Newbs can research. I'm not gonna respond to ignorant statements.

Ram won't provide failure data. Wonder why?

TacTech provided his personal dealership data ~ 10% Hemi lifter/cam failure. Read about GM's L87 600,000+ engine recall for what - 100 or so failures?

C'mon.

And you shouldn't have to. I had a look at that article. I understand the point behind it, but to dwell on it any further would be a change of topic.

I'm not looking for an argument, and I'm open to new information. I don't state things as fact unless I'm sure they're true, that's how you make a fool of yourself.

Put it this way, I don't know exactly how many hemis have lifter problems. I know it happens enough that it's a well known issue. As far as sheer durability, Are there engines with a far worse track record? Definitely. Are there some with a little better? The general consensus is yes.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Okay, point taken. I'm not on a mission to prove they're junk - I own one, and I don't want it to fail. But I've heard enough warnings and horror stories to make it sound like at least several per hundred have problems. If that's an exaggeration, that only proves my point about the bad stories standing out more than the good.

Back of the envelope math based on annual sales and a roughly 80% take rate for the hemi, we're looking at some 5 million hemi equipped trucks put on the road in the last 10 year, give or take. Then add in roughly another million Charger/Challengers in the same time frame (that's a much rougher number, take rates aren't as well established)

The number of people complaining online about failures is statistical noise. Without access to internal data or large scale fleet data, there's no way to know if failure rates are .001% or 3%. The data exists, it's just behind pay walls and NDAs. Dealerships know how many trucks come back that they sold, and there's some data that leaks so we know things like the 2025s had waaaay higher incidents of electrical issues than, say, a 2022 did. But aside from having an inside source, we're all just guessing.

Jeep forums will make you think the Pentastar is crap on a shingle, but Ram forums much less so. Why? Well, like you said people show up to report bad news. Way more Jeeps are equipped since that's the only option for many, many years so they get a worse rap over ther. People seldom show up to say "my truck is running great, thanks!" same as the news never reports "the gas station at 5th and Main wasn't robbed today!".

While we don't know how *many* die, we do know what most of the ones die *from*, so that's good info and if it's actionable, great. We can look at what the early failures have in common. That's a whole other series of threads, so I'll leave it be at that

 

[Islander39er]

Back of the envelope math based on annual sales and a roughly 80% take rate for the hemi, we're looking at some 5 million hemi equipped trucks put on the road in the last 10 year, give or take. Then add in roughly another million Charger/Challengers in the same time frame (that's a much rougher number, take rates aren't as well established)

The number of people complaining online about failures is statistical noise. Without access to internal data or large scale fleet data, there's no way to know if failure rates are .001% or 3%. The data exists, it's just behind pay walls and NDAs. Dealerships know how many trucks come back that they sold, and there's some data that leaks so we know things like the 2025s had waaaay higher incidents of electrical issues than, say, a 2022 did. But aside from having an inside source, we're all just guessing.

Jeep forums will make you think the Pentastar is crap on a shingle, but Ram forums much less so. Why? Well, like you said people show up to report bad news. Way more Jeeps are equipped since that's the only option for many, many years so they get a worse rap over ther. People seldom show up to say "my truck is running great, thanks!" same as the news never reports "the gas station at 5th and Main wasn't robbed today!".

While we don't know how *many* die, we do know what most of the ones die *from*, so that's good info and if it's actionable, great. We can look at what the early failures have in common. That's a whole other series of threads, so I'll leave it be at that

I've said that about the news for years, they gobble up the bad stuff.
We're completely on the same page now, I agree with everything you just said.

The other thing I've noticed, and this applies to the hemi, and a whole lot of other engines/transmissions - when someone does think to post "I've got 170K trouble free miles of towing" or the like, that's when others show up in droves to reply similar experiences.

For better or worse, I'd venture to say that the statistical noise on forums is what a lot of people take and use to make decisions. Sometimes it's all they have available.
My opinion, large fleets who keep vehicles to high mileage and stick to good maintenence schedules are probably the closest thing to accurate data available. If we did have access to dealership data, it's of some use, and could be compared to other engines in the same context. But that's likely a measure of how many make it through their warranty.

How many out of warranty trucks are taken to private shops, rebuilt by DIYers, or simply taken to the boneyard? Well, I don't know, and I don't expect to find out. That raises the question of what exactly is acceptable longevity. Well clearly, if 5 years or 60K miles is standard warranty, that's what the manufacturer is willing to cover and I have to accept that if I keep, or buy, a truck past that, I'm on my own to pay for any repairs, or pay for extended warranty. On the other hand, while there's always occasional lemons in every model, I'd be reluctant to buy a new truck if I thought there was a good chance it'd need major repairs like internal engine work anywhere close to warranty mileage.

This is a completely hypothetical example, but if a dealer told me failure rates are both roughly 0.03% on the 5.7 and 3.6, but I have 10 friends with older units of each, and 2 hemis had lifter failures, even at relatively high mileage, but all 10 pentastars outlasted the rest of the truck, I'm likely to lean towards the pentastar more. But I could buy one and be the one to have problems with it.

by the way, I'm speculating for fun more than anything else now. It's only so much use to worry about statistics - I look at chance as an illusion of sorts. My hemi will break or it won't, simple as that. It won't do me much good to go around worrying about it. It's also an 11 year old truck that sees a lot of salt, so there's a lot of other parts that may or may not break.

I liked the hurricane based on a short test drive. As an aside, my dad happened to be with me and he thought the transmission was acting weird. I didn't notice that, and it was both our first time in an 8 speed. That transmission does have a good reputation.

I do like the old school v8 rumble of my older hemi (with its slight tick, possibly a manifold), but that's not a hill to die on for me. Only time will tell how the hurricane holds up long term, but if I bought a new hemi it'd have another unfamiliar unknown in the form of e-torque. To bluntly answer the core debate of this thread, I don't think I have a big preference for either one over the other. Both perform quite well for my needs, both would "most likely" last as long as the rest of the truck in my posession.

I think if I was to buy a new ram now, I'd get a HD anyway, probably a regular cab 6.4. I don't need it and the gas mileage is not ideal (but would it be that much worse than my 2014 5.7 6 speed?) But I strongly prefer their looks over the current 1500, I have a soft spot for 4th(4.5) gen regular cabs, and the RCLB configuration would serve me just fine.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I think if I was to buy a new ram now, I'd get a HD anyway, probably a regular cab 6.4. I don't need it and the gas mileage is not ideal (but would it be that much worse than my 2014 5.7 6 speed?)

Depends on your mix of city/highway, but I lost about 2mpg going from a 2012 Quad cab 5.7/6A to a 2021 Power Wagon. A little worse in the winter and way worse at higher wind speeds.

 

[Islander39er]

Depends on your mix of city/highway, but I lost about 2mpg going from a 2012 Quad cab 5.7/6A to a 2021 Power Wagon. A little worse in the winter and way worse at higher wind speeds.

That's not that much really. On the other hand, I drive in a lot of high wind speeds.

But I'm not about to pay tens of thousands for a truck I'm not happy with.

 

[2016 2500]

I am not jumping in on any of this but just another point to consider, how much the government mandated epa stuff has killed reliability