Ram vs Cybertruck - destroying your truck while towing.

[ramffml]

You could plug dozens of other vehicles into this test and achieve the same failed receiver results.

Not unless the frames are made of cast aluminum.

The video is an attack on the Cyber truck

Yes it is. We literally make fun of lots of different cars/trucks/evs here.

, and you, justifying and pushing the video in this thread, makes it crystal clear your hate of the truck. Why do you continue to regurgitate your position?

Why do feel the need to defend something you don't own and which clearly has multiple engineering/manufacturing flaws?

 

[DILLIGAF]

Guys with 1500's should just sit this one out...

 

[Lsujker]

I have a 9" drop aluminum hitch. Machined, not cast by the way. He mentions fatigue over time at forces but does not give actual numbers. Something I have always wondered with aluminum.

 

[20IndyRam]

1) Sample of one test to failure experiment. My reliability guys at work loved these types of tests. The important part is ensuring the "pedigree" of the test sample. To make the test meaningful, you needed a "representative" part. Given the "impact marks" on the drivers rear door, I'm having an issue with pedigree.

2) Test methods and instrumentation are highly questionable. The fact that the tester did not understand the difference between 5 lb "accuracy" and "resolution" for the load cell is rather troubling. These devices can be quite good assuming that they are calibrated for full scale and zero offset. I see no evidence of that.

3) The physics used to justify this test are rather elusive. Does anyone pull a 11,000 lb load (max rating), with a 1/2 ton truck, a single axle trailer (maximum weight transfer to the ball), without a load distributing hitch? Unless your trailer goes vertical, you will not have a 11,000 pound STATIC load on the hitch.

4) Anyone who believes that cast aluminum is somehow inherently inferior to steel is misguided. They are simply two different materials that engineers use for different applications and requirements. We used cast AL in Aerospace due to it's light weight, heigh strength, corrosion resistance, and thermal conductivity (Actuators, fuel systems, and landing gear). The front A-arms on my RAM are cast aluminum and believe me they do take a pounding. It's a material. It's up to the engineers to use it properly (cost, weight, strength, durability, corrosion resistance - etc). If the material is used incorrectly, you miss the design requirements (life, cost, weight, etc).

In the future, can we agree that most of the Youtube videos are intended for entertainment and click value? No need to get wrapped up in questionable physics and engineering rationalizations.

Life is way too short for this crap.

 

[SkylarMelo]

Engineering Explained on Youtube made a follow up video to this doing all the math and working with RAM to understand all the rules and regulations around towing and standards used. Very informative video that adds more context here, and explains the steel vs aluminum fatigue issue.

Does The Tesla Cybertruck Have A Problem? Broken Tow Hitch!

Can Tesla's Cybertruck Handle Its Rated Tow Load, Or Could The Hitch Fall Off? Tesla's Cybertruck Fails Under Load - https://youtu.be/ubUXNSWGth0How Tow Rati...

www.youtube.com

 

[rzr6-4]

Does anyone pull a 11,000 lb load (max rating), with a 1/2 ton truck, a single axle trailer (maximum weight transfer to the ball), without a load distributing hitch? Unless your trailer goes vertical, you will not have a 11,000 pound STATIC load on the hitch.

In the Engineering Explained video, he goes over pretty well how that 11,000 load on the hitch, while unlikely, is possible under use with a properly loaded trailer. That doesn't even account for someone like me who favors tongue heavy and doesn't care about tow ratings. Generous safety factors are needed in part for that reason.

We used cast AL in Aerospace due to it's light weight, heigh strength, corrosion resistance, and thermal conductivity (Actuators, fuel systems, and landing gear).

One of the most important, and difficult, parts of aero design is fatigue analysis. Al has great strength to weight which is why it is used, but engineers have to pay way more attention to fatigue than they do with steel structures.

When designing static steel structures, I design for a SF of 2+ and call it a day, no fatigue analysis needed.

This of course isn't to say that Al can't be used, its just to say that it takes special precautions.

 

[20IndyRam]

In the Engineering Explained video, he goes over pretty well how that 11,000 load on the hitch, while unlikely, is possible under use with a properly loaded trailer. That doesn't even account for someone like me who favors tongue heavy and doesn't care about tow ratings. Generous safety factors are needed in part for that reason.

I will agree the video offered some math to go with the assumptions made. My problem IS the assumptions. The weight transfer is dynamic, not STATIC as was used in the test. The fulcrum was assumed to be 3' behind the hitch ball with a 3' C.G. I'm having a huge problem envisioning this trailer and load. It's simply a math model trying to prove a point. If this existed in real life, you would loose control of the vehicle every time you hit the brakes. Why are we worried about the hitch failure load?

One of the most important, and difficult, parts of aero design is fatigue analysis. Al has great strength to weight which is why it is used, but engineers have to pay way more attention to fatigue than they do with steel structures.

This is exactly correct. Add in Stress corrosion, life expectations, and overhaul intervals and you have a more complete picture. Then we can get into coatings, passivations, annealing and the like. Materials science/engineering is an entire discipline, why are we trying to understand this in a 10 min YouTube?

The easy jobs we had was where we were "told" what material to use. That was rare. Typically, the material had to meet the customers specific (and derived) performance, weight, cost, and life cycle requirements. In my area that typically meant AL for commercial airlines, TI for Military Aircraft, and SS for NASA applications. Again, we had to perform trade studies each time to justify the material choice for the application. If we chose wrong, someone else got the job.

 

[Docwagon1776]

1) Sample of one test to failure experiment. My reliability guys at work loved these types of tests. The important part is ensuring the "pedigree" of the test sample. To make the test meaningful, you needed a "representative" part. Given the "impact marks" on the drivers rear door, I'm having an issue with pedigree.

2) Test methods and instrumentation are highly questionable. The fact that the tester did not understand the difference between 5 lb "accuracy" and "resolution" for the load cell is rather troubling. These devices can be quite good assuming that they are calibrated for full scale and zero offset. I see no evidence of that.

3) The physics used to justify this test are rather elusive. Does anyone pull a 11,000 lb load (max rating), with a 1/2 ton truck, a single axle trailer (maximum weight transfer to the ball), without a load distributing hitch? Unless your trailer goes vertical, you will not have a 11,000 pound STATIC load on the hitch.

4) Anyone who believes that cast aluminum is somehow inherently inferior to steel is misguided. They are simply two different materials that engineers use for different applications and requirements. We used cast AL in Aerospace due to it's light weight, heigh strength, corrosion resistance, and thermal conductivity (Actuators, fuel systems, and landing gear). The front A-arms on my RAM are cast aluminum and believe me they do take a pounding. It's a material. It's up to the engineers to use it properly (cost, weight, strength, durability, corrosion resistance - etc). If the material is used incorrectly, you miss the design requirements (life, cost, weight, etc).

In the future, can we agree that most of the Youtube videos are intended for entertainment and click value? No need to get wrapped up in questionable physics and engineering rationalizations.

Life is way too short for this crap.

Quality post all around, that was good info.

 

[rvance]

Due to recent events, I now want a cyber truck, even though I will never be able to afford one. I see them as being in the same class as a Ridgeline and not something for hauling a 5th wheel.

 

[Aircommuter]

They might as well face it that thing is the Edsel of trucks. Slide in camper won’t work, flatbed no, hard to access front corners of the bed, cleaning the inside of the windshield is hopeless, towing range is a joke, most chargers don’t have trailer access, fake distance range is based on 100% charge while they recommend not below 10% nor above 80% and if you do the battery life will suffer. Seems like a great truck.

 

[bgenlvtex]

In the Engineering Explained video, he goes over pretty well how that 11,000 load on the hitch, while unlikely, is possible under use with a properly loaded trailer. That doesn't even account for someone like me who favors tongue heavy and doesn't care about tow ratings. Generous safety factors are needed in part for that reason.



One of the most important, and difficult, parts of aero design is fatigue analysis. Al has great strength to weight which is why it is used, but engineers have to pay way more attention to fatigue than they do with steel structures.

When designing static steel structures, I design for a SF of 2+ and call it a day, no fatigue analysis needed.

This of course isn't to say that Al can't be used, its just to say that it takes special precautions.

I'm not going to watch any more of his stuff, but tell me this the mathematical possibility of this happening, he showed the math for that?

He showed the math for that with a single axle trailer weighing 11,000 pounds?

Is that right?

Engineering Explained on Youtube made a follow up video to this doing all the math and working with RAM to understand all the rules and regulations around towing and standards used. Very informative video that adds more context here, and explains the steel vs aluminum fatigue issue.

Does The Tesla Cybertruck Have A Problem? Broken Tow Hitch!

Can Tesla's Cybertruck Handle Its Rated Tow Load, Or Could The Hitch Fall Off? Tesla's Cybertruck Fails Under Load - https://youtu.be/ubUXNSWGth0How Tow Rati...

www.youtube.com

Ok, I took one for the team and ran the risk of catching aids watching this guy for 10 minutes.

So here is the problem with his math.


He is using 11,000 pounds on a single axle trailer, and that single axle is in the middle of the trailer.
There is no single axle trailer suitable for use behind a passenger vehicle rated for 11,000 pounds.
If there was it wouldn't be positioned where he has it in the trailer.
There is no single axle suitable for mounting in that trailer that is good for 11,000 pounds
You would have to have dual wheels to have enough tires to carry 11,000 pounds.
If you add another axle it changes everything about his math, and another axle would be required to carry the load necessary to make his math happen.
The closest you could come is LT215/75R17.5 LR H which is good for 4805lbs @125psi single

So really no, there is no circumstance that this would happen in the real world. This guy is just wrong and obviously has an agenda as do others in this thread.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Dude is getting a lot of clicks. Clicks = $$$. Sensationalism surely works, regardless of the merit of the experiment.

 

[rzr6-4]

I'm not going to watch any more of his stuff, but tell me this the mathematical possibility of this happening, he showed the math for that?

He showed the math for that with a single axle trailer weighing 11,000 pounds?

Is that right?

Ok, I took one for the team and ran the risk of catching aids watching this guy for 10 minutes.

So here is the problem with his math.


He is using 11,000 pounds on a single axle trailer, and that single axle is in the middle of the trailer.
There is no single axle trailer suitable for use behind a passenger vehicle rated for 11,000 pounds.
If there was it wouldn't be positioned where he has it in the trailer.
There is no single axle suitable for mounting in that trailer that is good for 11,000 pounds
You would have to have dual wheels to have enough tires to carry 11,000 pounds.
If you add another axle it changes everything about his math, and another axle would be required to carry the load necessary to make his math happen.
The closest you could come is LT215/75R17.5 LR H which is good for 4805lbs @125psi single

So really no, there is no circumstance that this would happen in the real world. This guy is just wrong and obviously has an agenda as do others in this thread.

But that was a very simple example just showing breaking force. Let's say your trailer is a different design so it's only half that, 5500 pounds under that one G breaking. The guys at Ram which are completely separate from this whole thing, they said that seeing three Gs is not uncommon in real world testing. So that 5500 pounds under 1G becomes 16,500 pounds under 3G scenario.

Obviously this is not something I would be deeply concerned about if I was driving a cyber truck, this takes being loaded at max capacity and then to have all of the stars align, but that's what engineering is supposed to account for. Worst case scenario.

If I design a steel rack that's designed to support 1000 pounds, not only am I designing it to hold 2000+ pounds vertically to have a safety factor of at least 2, but usually I'm designing it for 2000 pounds to be applied at an angle as well for errors in loading and unloading. And considering that vehicles are quite literally designed to be survival in wrecks, they need to have parameters for such events.

I'm not trying to rag on Tesla, I'm just saying from an engineering standpoint the fact that a critical failure like this is theoretically possible within its rated capacity is an issue.

And I can tell that a lot of the people in this thread haven't watched Jason's videos before, he likes Teslas and whenever there's some big controversy like this, he's usually pretty good at dispelling it and showing that things are typically much safer than people make them out to be. So the fact that in my seven years of watching his channel this is the first time I've ever seen him say that something is actually borderline, I don't doubt his judgment as an engineer, which he used to be before he was in the media sphere.

 

[skates15]

YouTube cannot exist without content creators being sensationalistic. Its what drives clicks and how they get paid.

 

[Burla]

There is a ton you could post that makes the cyber truck a bad example of a truck, I have posted plenty myself may 3 or 4 stupid traits of this vehicle, but this aint it.. No no fellas cant you duplicate a freaking excavator putting 11k pounds of force simply by driving, lol. No no you cant, sorry. Plus that is artificial, as it is 1kk pounds from at least 10k pounds of metal arm and bucket insuring there is no back movement like you see from shocks. As long as you obey tongue rate rules as with any truck, your hitch ain't coming off more then any other truck.

Next time post the 10's of things that are bad on this truck so I can laugh along.

 

[bgenlvtex]

But that was a very simple example just showing breaking force. Let's say your trailer is a different design so it's only half that, 5500 pounds under that one G breaking. The guys at Ram which are completely separate from this whole thing, they said that seeing three Gs is not uncommon in real world testing. So that 5500 pounds under 1G becomes 16,500 pounds under 3G scenario.

Obviously this is not something I would be deeply concerned about if I was driving a cyber truck, this takes being loaded at max capacity and then to have all of the stars align, but that's what engineering is supposed to account for. Worst case scenario.

If I design a steel rack that's designed to support 1000 pounds, not only am I designing it to hold 2000+ pounds vertically to have a safety factor of at least 2, but usually I'm designing it for 2000 pounds to be applied at an angle as well for errors in loading and unloading. And considering that vehicles are quite literally designed to be survival in wrecks, they need to have parameters for such events.

I'm not trying to rag on Tesla, I'm just saying from an engineering standpoint the fact that a critical failure like this is theoretically possible within its rated capacity is an issue.

And I can tell that a lot of the people in this thread haven't watched Jason's videos before, he likes Teslas and whenever there's some big controversy like this, he's usually pretty good at dispelling it and showing that things are typically much safer than people make them out to be. So the fact that in my seven years of watching his channel this is the first time I've ever seen him say that something is actually borderline, I don't doubt his judgment as an engineer, which he used to be before he was in the media sphere.

It's the example he used to demonstrate the weakness, not me.
He drew all of his pictures and did a bunch of math with a fundamentally flawed example so distantly detached from reality that it is obvious he knows nothing of the subject. I don't care if he likes them or not, if you're going to put on your fancy britches to show everybody how smart you are, you should try to avoid looking like a ******** by creating an (almost) impossible example of a trailer. I say "almost" because with enough **** and welding rods you could cut an axle out of a lowboy and cludge it together to tow behind your $80k truck. At the end of the day nobody is building a single axle trailer to tow 11,000 pounds with, nobody.

I doubt his judgement as an engineer because he obviously doesn't understand what he is talking about, yet he has determined that the Tesla might fail under some absurd circumstances while pulling a non existent trailer.

With regards to Ram/Stellantis input on the subject I had a 2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (JTR) 3.6/8HP/4.10's (In the interest of full transparency I did put 35's on it) that was rated by Stellantis to tow 7000 pounds. My trailer is 3100ish wet and the truck rated to tow more than twice that amount struggled to do so on flat ground at sea level and was entirely unsuited to tow it in the mountains. Not enough engine, not enough suspension, not enough brakes, so based on that I'd shoot a little snot rocket in the general direction of Stellantis engineering team, because either they had no idea what they were doing, or they just lied their asses off about it. It took 103,000 miles, about 25, 000 of which was pulling a 3k trailer before it digested rocker arms halfway across Nevada on the "Loneliest Highway"( a well known issue the "engineers" have failed to remedy).

 

[slbenz600]

SHOULD YOU TOW WITH A CYBERTRUCK?! - (catastrophic failure test)

The Tesla Cybertruck is built with a cast aluminum frame. Get up to 40% off your RIDGE wallet here: https://www.ridge.com/JERRYRIG (discount code: JerryRig) ...

www.youtube.com

In the video that was being referenced, they had a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500. They said it had comparable numbers as far as towing to the Cybertruck. The Dodge Ram they used, as was explained in the video, had been in an accident and had what appeared to be a bent hitch to start with. That and they had to move the Ram with a front end loader because it had no engine in it.

They used the forks of the front end loader pushed through the grill to hold the front of the Ram on the ground. It's hard to see everything in the little clips that were referenced from the original video.

Edit: Two different types of vehicles with different design parameters. I think the Cybertruck has it's place. But it isn't a work truck....like some of the Tesla videos showing it on job sites. My 2 pennies worth.

These people that think that EV's have there place ? I am not sure how much crack you people are smoking you have never read the facts ??. I am not going into detail because you people aren't in reality, let's tell you if you convert the 4 kw hrs to charge once you convert to mpg the best EV in the world would get 5 mpg. Lets look at the 0 gas price ? to create one cell of the 12 cell battery only takes 200 gallons of diesel, one train car of sulfuric acid plus the use of loaders, shovels, train and double tractor trailer use and maintenace. Have you ever thought about disposing of the sulfuric acid with mine tailings how much damage does this do to the inviornment ??. According to Tesla when someone has to replace the EV battery ? the entire car has to be disasembled at todays price would cost over $50,000. USD, Tesla said the government willn't assist to replace the battery. If I had time and the desire to enlighten stupid people there is less enviornment distruction using the oil and gas that is in 3 US states not using any oil shale. I could buy a gas powered truck with an 8.0L and cost less than an EV. I wish the stupid people that think these are enviornmenatlly friendly they need to keep smoking crack.

 

[GTyankee]

Fast Lane Truck

Cyber Truck Towing 1st trip

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Ram & Cybertruck

How Far Can a Tesla Cybertruck ACTUALLY Tow? We Compare It To a Diesel Truck!

( https://www.weigh-safe.com/tfl ) Get an adjustable high-quality hitch for any towing job!( https://www.allTFL.com ) Check out our one-stop site to find ALL...

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Cybertruck & comical Ford instructions

Ford F-150 vs. Tesla Cybertruck: One of These Trucks OVERHEATED In The TFL Towing Torture Test!

Save up to $1,300 on a Ford or Mopar (RAM, Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler, Fiat) extended factory warranty for your new vehicle at Granger Motors! Ford: https://www.g...

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[BossHogg]

cleaning the inside of the windshield is hopeless

https://www.amazon.com/AstroAI-Microfiber-Windshield-Telescopic-Extendable/dp/B08C7K99WW?th=1

 

[JD Martin]

If I was driving a cyber truck, the last thing I would be worried about is the trailer hitch breaking. The first thing I would be worried about is what in the hell is wrong with me that I voluntarily chose to drive a cyber truck instead of about any other truck available!