Things I am surprised the 5th Gen doesn't have....

[SouthTexan]

I still own my 4th gen and probably will for a long time until they put a better trans in the HD diesels. I did drive a friends 2019 2500 diesel today and there are a few things I am surprised it and all Ram trucks do not have.

For one, I am very surprised that they are still using the same old slush box 6 speeds instead of the ZF 8 speed. It seems like Ram always skimps out on the trans when it comes to their diesel trucks. Ram was behind the times when their competitors had their 6-speeds and now they are even further behind now that both offer a 10 speed. I just can't for the life of me figure out why they would put such crappy trans options behind the Cummins. The Aisin is a step in the right direction, but it is is still far from what the competition has.

I would rather them spend the money on engineering the best transmission on the market rather than all the money they spend on trying to win the "best in class" towing ******* match that 90% of their customers will never tow. I would get more use out of that then being able to say that the Ram is capable of towing 30K in a configuration I do not have and 90% of their customers do not have.

I am also surprised it does not have and Eco and Sport mode like the F150's and my BMW has. In the F150, sport alters shift points and tightens up the steering. In my BMW , it does both of those things and makes the throttle more sensitive. Eco mode makes it shift sooner and makes the pedal more sluggish to keep you from applying too much throttle.

That brings me to another thing I am surprised it did not have which is a way to adjust throttle pedal sensitivity to get rid of dead pedal and customize the pedal to your liking. With all of the configurable options in Uconnect, you would figure they would make something to adjust pedal sensitivity. I know you can buy an aftermarket mod like the Pedal Commander to do this, but it would be nice if you didn't have to. The dead pedal on my truck and my friends 5th gen is horrendous compared to my father and laws 2019 F350 and a few of my friends GM HDs which makes the truck feel very sluggish and slow in comparison.

Lastly, I am still surprised that you cannot get a diesel in the Power Wagon. True, a diesel is too heavy to be a serious off roader, but I would love to have locking diffs, a winch, and unlock-able sway bar at the farm. Ford offers the diesel in the Tremor an GM offers one with the AT4 which both have locking rear diffs and limited slip front diffs. I think it is about time Ram should offer a diesel in the Power Wagon or at least have a 2500 Rebel with a diesel option.

These are just a few things from my first impressions, and one of the major reasons why I am not impressed enough to buy a new diesel truck yet. What makes me even more sad is that I would likely buy a GMC 2500 diesel AT4 if I was in the market right now which pains me to say because I am a big fan of the Cummins, but the rest of the truck is just not up to par with the competition aside from the looks and interior. I am sure you all have a lot more.

@RamCares , it would be nice to have these things in future models.

 

[tpk0999]

That post just made my head hurt.

 

[RainDesert]

I wish the HD had a full back seat like the 1500.

 

[crash68]

I still own my 4th gen and probably will for a long time until they put a better trans in the HD diesels. I did drive a friends 2019 2500 diesel today and there are a few things I am surprised it and all Ram trucks do not have.

For one, I am very surprised that they are still using the same old slush box 6 speeds instead of the ZF 8 speed. It seems like Ram always skimps out on the trans when it comes to their diesel trucks. Ram was behind the times when their competitors had their 6-speeds and now they are even further behind now that both offer a 10 speed. I just can't for the life of me figure out why they would put such crappy trans options behind the Cummins. The Aisin is a step in the right direction, but it is is still far from what the competition has.

Ram has an 8spd ZF for behind the Cummins they've been working on.

 

[IRSmart]

That post just made my head hurt.

Agreed

I don’t have the time or energy to comment on that entire ramble so I’ll just pick the one I’m most qualified to debate: the power wagon.

Lastly, I am still surprised that you cannot get a diesel in the Power Wagon. True, a diesel is too heavy to be a serious off roader, but I would love to have locking diffs, a winch, and unlock-able sway bar at the farm. Ford offers the diesel in the Tremor an GM offers one with the AT4 which both have locking rear diffs and limited slip front diffs. I think it is about time Ram should offer a diesel in the Power Wagon or at least have a 2500 Rebel with a diesel option.

Let me say this one time, loud and clear for all to hear. Is everyone listening?...ok, good *clears throat*

THE POWER WAGON WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER GET A DIESEL OPTION!!

Why? Ask any person with real off-roading experience. Diesel engines are not desirable to their gas counterparts for three reasons:

1) The 6.7l Cummins is insanely heavier (these trucks are already almost too heavy for some trails)

2) They don’t have a lot of power in low power bands where you will spend your entire afternoon when offroad

3) Their increased towing ability means nothing since you can’t tow a large amount due to the Power Wagons softer suspension anyway, making the $11,000 add-on option an enormous waste of money.

The power wagon is designed to do exactly one thing: destroy recreational trails, not be a work horse. There is a reason that the towing capability was sacrificed to increase offroad capability: that is why the power wagon literally exists. It doesn’t need to tow 30k pounds. If you’re looking for a hauler that MIGHT see a trail once in a blue moon, you don’t need a PW, you need a HD with the Off-Road group. THAT is more in line with the Tremor and whatever the hell GM thinks is their offroad competitor. The PW is for the recreational off-roader, period. Putting a diesel in the truck would undermine its very reason for being, since in this specific application, a diesel is an inferior engine choice.

Now, before everyone gets up in arms and throws the new 5th gen rebel in my face and says you can get it with an ecodiesel, yes, you are correct. However, weight is not as large of a concern with the Rebel as it is with the PW (the Rebel weighs 2,000 lbs less than a PW does, plus the ecodiesel is a physically MUCH smaller engine than a Cummins), and you don’t have to worry about towing differences because the Rebel‘s suspension is not significantly different enough from the other 1500 models to offer a substantial difference in towing capability (unlike the PW, who’s non-PW, identically equipped powertrain cousin offers a towing capacity 160% compared to that of a PW). Power in the low rpms is still an issue, so if I had a customer that told me they were buying the Rebel but was seriously considering taking offroad on a regular basis, I would recommend the Hemi option before I would ever recommend an ecodiesel.

 

[IRSmart]

I wish the HD had a full back seat like the 1500.

Two words: mega cab

 

[RainDesert]

Two words: mega cab

Agree there, I had a 2018 mega. But I really need seats that fold up! Ram just needs to update the crew cab like the 1500 and Ford imo. Flat rear floor is really nice for my needs.

 

[crash68]

1) The 6.7l Cummins is insanely heavier (these trucks are already almost too heavy for some trails)

2) They don’t have a lot of power in low power bands where you will spend your entire afternoon when offroad

I'll agree with you on the fact that the CTD, Powerstroke and Duramax found in the 2500 trucks make them too nose heavy

Now as far not making power at low rpms? You do realize that a CTD makes more torque off idle than the 6.4 does at it's peak. The Gen2 EcoD makes more torque than the 5.7 Hemi at 2K less rpms and the Gen3 will be pushing 480 ft.lbs at 1600 rpms (5.7 Hemi 410ft.lbs peaks at 4K rpms). You can throw HP numbers out all day long, that's great if your racing.
The gassers have the rpms advantage, you'll run out of rpms with EcoDs by 4k, you'll still have another 2500 or so with the Hemi if you have the nuts to keep on the throttle.
Depending on what type of offroading your doing is going to change what powerplant is better.
Once electric trucks start filtering through and you carry a generator to recharge it, they'll whop both gas and diesel. 100% torque at 0 rpms and max rpms that can top 10K.

 

[SouthTexan]

I don’t have the time or energy to comment on that entire ramble so I’ll just pick the one I’m most qualified to debate: the power wagon.


Let me say this one time, loud and clear for all to hear. Is everyone listening?...ok, good *clears throat*

THE POWER WAGON WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER GET A DIESEL OPTION!!

Why? Ask any person with real off-roading experience. Diesel engines are not desirable to their gas counterparts for three reasons:

LOL! I am one of those people that have real off road experience. I have owned several Jeeps(one with a 4BT in which have have taken to Moab, the Rubicon, and many other trails along with my farm and dear lease. Not to mention the remote areas my brother and I fish which you have to traverse sand dunes to get to. Many f these places even the Power Wagon in its current form cannot get to because it is too big and heavy. I have passed many in my Jeep and Yota.

1) The 6.7l Cummins is insanely heavier (these trucks are already almost too heavy for some trails)

I would bet that a diesel Power Wagon would be able to go over 90% of the places that a gas one would. However, I don't wan't one for the trails. I have a smaller off road rig for that. Not everyone uses their truck for the same purpose or the same type of off roading.

I want one for the farm and dear lease. We call it the farm, but it is really a ranch since we mainly have cattle and only grow hay in the front portion which is only takes up about 15 acres. I have to haul hog traps and other equipment around the property through the many trails the back of the property which has many wash outs and caliche pits.

There is also the dear lease which our camp house is another 8 miles off road from the nearest paved road. Many times the trail to get to the camp house is washed out or blocked by brush while hauling over a ton of corn and protein. My current truck can make it in both these places, but it requires a lot of maneuvering because the Torsen LSD does not activate instantly. It requires getting a little running start which is not ideal. Having a locking front and rear diff would allow me to go through many of these obstacles at a slower and steady pace.

2) They don’t have a lot of power in low power bands where you will spend your entire afternoon when offroad

This is false. The Cummins makes a ton of torque at low rpms even without the turbo spooled. It is a long stroke motor while the 6.4L is a short stroke so even without the turbo it makes way more torque at the lower rpms that you are usually at when off roading. For example, the Cummins makes 480 lb-ft at 900 rpm and the turbo does not start making boost until around 1,100 rpm so that 480 lb-ft is all without the turbo. That is more torque at just 900 rpm than the 429 lb-ft that the 6.4L makes at 4,000 rpm.

3) Their increased towing ability means nothing since you can’t tow a large amount due to the Power Wagons softer suspension anyway, making the $11,000 add-on option an enormous waste of money.

The diesel option with a 68rfe is only $9,100 over the 6.4L which is less than going from the Tradesman option to the Laramie option. Most of which you will get back on re-sale and added fuel economy which means you would be spending very little on the added power and torque over the total ownership of the vehicles. To me, I would get one even if I didn't tow just for the added power alone. Especially when you can easily be at 500+ RWHP and 1,100 RWTQ with a few mods.

The power wagon is designed to do exactly one thing: destroy recreational trails, not be a work horse. There is a reason that the towing capability was sacrificed to increase offroad capability: that is why the power wagon literally exists. It doesn’t need to tow 30k pounds. If you’re looking for a hauler that MIGHT see a trail once in a blue moon, you don’t need a PW, you need a HD with the Off-Road group. THAT is more in line with the Tremor and whatever the hell GM thinks is their offroad competitor. The PW is for the recreational off-roader, period. Putting a diesel in the truck would undermine its very reason for being, since in this specific application, a diesel is an inferior engine choice.

Today's power Wagon may have been built for recreational trails, but he original Power Wagon was meant to be a work horse for the military. It was not meant to be a recreational vehicle. Lat I checked, there is no SRW Ram HD truck that can tow 30k so I am not sure why that is brought up. I would only need it to tow a 14k 5ver. The off road package is not inline with the Tremor because it has locking rear diffs and a LSD front diff and comes with the diesel which is the superior off road engine choice for what I would be using the my truck for.

Now, before everyone gets up in arms and throws the new 5th gen rebel in my face and says you can get it with an ecodiesel, yes, you are correct. However, weight is not as large of a concern with the Rebel as it is with the PW (the Rebel weighs 2,000 lbs less than a PW does, plus the ecodiesel is a physically MUCH smaller engine than a Cummins), and you don’t have to worry about towing differences because the Rebel‘s suspension is not significantly different enough from the other 1500 models to offer a substantial difference in towing capability (unlike the PW, who’s non-PW, identically equipped powertrain cousin offers a towing capacity 160% compared to that of a PW). Power in the low rpms is still an issue, so if I had a customer that told me they were buying the Rebel but was seriously considering taking offroad on a regular basis, I would recommend the Hemi option before I would ever recommend an ecodiesel.

In my opinion, Ram should have taken Cummins up on the 5.0L ISV V8 diesel offer for the Power Wagon. I don't know why they didn't. That would have been a perfect engine for the truck. It is CGI so weighs about the same as the iron block 6.4, but creates a lot more torque(555 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm) . It uses less fuel which means a lighter rig so you don't have to carry as much fuel in the tank and spare tanks for extended trips. It has a two stage turbocharger which means you get boost almost instantly. I have off roaded with both gas engines and diesel engines, and the diesel engines are far superior for slow going off road due to the amount of low end torque they create and how little of fuel they use in comparison. In high speed off roading, the gas engine is king but then again I would get a turbocharged Raptor for that.

 

[jlongjohn]

I think the biggest difference here, and in many discussions comes down to definitions. One persons definition of off-roading is “Moab” and another’s is “Farm or Ranch”. So you all are trying to compare apples and oranges. I personally would love a PW Diesel.


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[SouthTexan]

I think the biggest difference here, and in many discussions comes down to definitions. One persons definition of off-roading is “Moab” and another’s is “Farm or Ranch”. So you all are trying to compare apples and oranges. I personally would love a PW Diesel.


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Exactly, not everyone's off road is the same and everyone has different uses for their truck. That is the reason why these truck manufactures have so many options in their trucks. If one doesn't like a diesel option in a Power Wagon, then they don't have to get one. I am not sure why they are so against something they would not buy anyway.

I would probably never buy a gaser in an HD because of my own preferences and opinions, but that doesn't mean I think they should not be offered because I know other people use their truck differently and have different wants/needs than I do.

 

[BWL]

I don't think power wagon should come in a diesel, but I do think they should have winch and front and rear locker options for the diesel trucks because a lot of the guys with hds do use them around farm,ranches and for hunting and the lockers are good for extra traction when it's muddier or you're trying to drag stuff around and a winch is just handy.

 

[IRSmart]

I think the biggest difference here, and in many discussions comes down to definitions. One persons definition of off-roading is “Moab” and another’s is “Farm or Ranch”. So you all are trying to compare apples and oranges. I personally would love a PW Diesel.


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That’s why I specifically made sure to say recreational off-roading, trails, woods, etc.

 

[mtnrider]

I don't think power wagon should come in a diesel, but I do think they should have winch and front and rear locker options for the diesel trucks because a lot of the guys with hds do use them around farm,ranches and for hunting and the lockers are good for extra traction when it's muddier or you're trying to drag stuff around and a winch is just handy.

^ I do wish I had lockers on mine. When I am driving around my farm it would be nice to have (especially when it is muddy as hell like it is now). I wonder if the locker they use in the PW may not be rated for the torque of the diesel so that's why they don't offer it?

I would love a winch as well but it's not possible to tuck it away like the power wagon due to the inter cooler being in that space so it would have to be mounted externally to some sort of after market bumper or grill guard?

As far as Ram "Never" producing a Diesel PW, I'm not so sure about that? With Ford producing the Tremor I wouldn't be surprised to see Ram answer with something similar. It Will sell no doubt.


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[BWL]

The torque of the diesel would probably destroy the axle behind the 6.4, but they make lock up axles for semis so there's no reason the diesel axles couldn't be upgraded to a locker. Winch on the front tucked away would require a bit of a redesign, but would think simply a slightly deeper bumper for the diesels with that option would be sufficient or a modified cooler to allow clearance. I could see a ranch/backwoods package with a bull bar front bumper, winch and off road light bar and front and rear lockers. Should also include flares and mud flaps and at tires. Considering how many guys would want that and the aftermarket cost they could charge a decent buck and get it.

 

[tpk0999]

^ I do wish I had lockers on mine. When I am driving around my farm it would be nice to have (especially when it is muddy as hell like it is now). I wonder if the locker they use in the PW may not be rated for the torque of the diesel so that's why they don't offer it?

I would love a winch as well but it's not possible to tuck it away like the power wagon due to the inter cooler being in that space so it would have to be mounted externally to some sort of after market bumper or grill guard?

As far as Ram "Never" producing a Diesel PW, I'm not so sure about that? With Ford producing the Tremor I wouldn't be surprised to see Ram answer with something similar. It Will sell no doubt.


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No you wont see a diesel power wagon. What you would see is a locking rear diff as an option for your other models. That would be the correct move. Also, one of the multiple reasons why it's not an option, if they were to put a diesel inside the truck, say goodbye to the winch. Now your back to a regular model with an optional locking diffs. Also the suspension would be entirely different and towing capabilities would be diminished with a diesel power wagon. Honestly, at this rate, go buy a ram rebel with the ecodiesel. You will end up around the same numbers.

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[SouthTexan]

The motor in the origional Power Wagon had a straight 6 just like the Cummins. It had a very stiff suspension because it was meant to haul heavy stuff off road. In pickup form it was a few thousand pounds lighter than even the current Power Wagon and had a max GVWR heavier than a crew cab 4x4 diesel.

The local fire department had one and was always loaded with fire equipment and water weighing way more than what my truck does and it still went just about anywhere you pointed so saying that putting a diesel in the Power Wagon is going to make it a lot less of an off roader is just nonsense. I bet a diesel Power Wagon would be able to over 90% of the places the current gas powered Power Wagon can go. I have seen heavier and longer vehicles go places that most Power Wagon owners would even think of taking their truck. If lighter and softer suspension is better than Power Wagon owners would just go to a Jeep Rubicon or Toyota TRD Pro.

 

[crazy jerry]

ford tremor is basically a regular f250 with front lsd. no special suspension, no special skidplates, no special shocks, no special swaybar, supposedly they eventually will have a winch but i havent seen it yet. even die hard ford guys are disappointed with what little the tremor offers

me personally wouldnt touch a cummins powerwagon with 100' pole

 

[SouthTexan]

ford tremor is basically a regular f250 with front lsd. no special suspension, no special skidplates, no special shocks, no special swaybar, supposedly they eventually will have a winch but i havent seen it yet. even die hard ford guys are disappointed with what little the tremor offers

me personally wouldnt touch a cummins powerwagon with 100' pole

So you wouldn't like 500 rear wheel horsepower and 1,200 lb-ft at the wheels when tuned without deleting it?

 

[chesafreak]

Yall dont think FCA does market testing on all of these things? Is it worth them to go through the trouble of testing, re-certifying, retooling, etc to sell a couple extra power wagons(which i assume already is not a truck flying off the lots). I cant even imagine the cost of these trucks if they started letting people pick options exactly how they wanted and not in packages.

Also southtexan, i dont get it. Your halfway there, you already have a better suspension than the powerwagon, add a locker and winch and you have nothing to complain about. I would also assume that the 8 speed is coming soon enough to back the cummins. It took Ford and GM teaming up to get their 10speed out when ram had the 8 speed for a few years already.